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Post by monkumonku on Apr 24, 2024 9:40:53 GMT -5
Yet another Green Room question for youse tech guys, please: Wife and I have been on the local cable TV supplier for years and years. But, being retired, we're interested in reducing costs. We currently pay almost $2,500 / year for cable TV and the vast majority of the channels, we don't even watch. We're interested in experimenting with a combination of digital antenna and either Apple TV or Roku to see if they can provide the channels we want for less money. Our "digital antenna" is an older RCA model. It is a flat panel about nine inches square that I've hung above the TV. Running the channel search on our Samsung, the digital antenna picks up 11 channels, some with obvious digital hash. I'd like to get a better antenna, but don't want the hassle of attic or outside mounting. I see that most antennas offered on Amazon are made for shelf placement. I also see that a large number of them offer signal amplifiers. Some of the antennas, rather than offering the coaxial connection, instead offer both HDMI and USB connections. Which of these features (amplifier / HDMI / USB) are worth paying for, and what does each offer that a standard coaxial connection doesn't? Next, I can use my Apple TV or my Roku Ultra. From what I'm seeing, I think that more channels are available via Roku than Apple TV. Is this correct, or can either device connect to all the same available internet channels? I understand that I'll have to pay for channels (either by package on Apple or Ala-carte on Roku), but I still calculate that monthly expenses will be less than half the cost of Cox cable. Suggestions? Thanks very kindly - Glenn Regarding digital antennas, it depends on how far the broadcast towers are from you. If they aren't that far, then you don't need an amplified antenna and in fact amplified ones are worse for close-range and will overload the receiver. I use a Mohu Leaf flat antenna, which is probably what you have or similar to it. I've tried several other types and this one works the best but the most important thing is hanging it high and also so that the flat part faces the broadcast towers. The drawback is if your signals are coming from different directions then it is more of a hassle to keep moving a flat antenna than one that is easier to change direction. If you do have a signal amplifier, try running the channel scan with and without the amplifier to see which way works better.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 24, 2024 10:38:04 GMT -5
Regarding digital antennas, it depends on how far the broadcast towers are from you. If they aren't that far, then you don't need an amplified antenna and in fact amplified ones are worse for close-range and will overload the receiver. I use a Mohu Leaf flat antenna, which is probably what you have or similar to it. I've tried several other types and this one works the best but the most important thing is hanging it high and also so that the flat part faces the broadcast towers. The drawback is if your signals are coming from different directions then it is more of a hassle to keep moving a flat antenna than one that is easier to change direction. If you do have a signal amplifier, try running the channel scan with and without the amplifier to see which way works better. Just what I needed, monkumonku - I'll order one that is shelf mounted so we can rotate it conveniently. The stations we're wanting with the antenna are all local, so we probably don't need an amplifier. This afternoon, I'll explore the world of Roku & see if it provides the variety we need. My estimate is that the local (antenna) channels plus five or six from Roku will suffice for our needs. Roku setup seems pretty simple. Thanks again - Glenn
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 24, 2024 10:55:19 GMT -5
Yet another Green Room question for youse tech guys, please: Wife and I have been on the local cable TV supplier for years and years. But, being retired, we're interested in reducing costs. We currently pay almost $2,500 / year for cable TV and the vast majority of the channels, we don't even watch. We're interested in experimenting with a combination of digital antenna and either Apple TV or Roku to see if they can provide the channels we want for less money. Our "digital antenna" is an older RCA model. It is a flat panel about nine inches square that I've hung above the TV. Running the channel search on our Samsung, the digital antenna picks up 11 channels, some with obvious digital hash. I'd like to get a better antenna, but don't want the hassle of attic or outside mounting. I see that most antennas offered on Amazon are made for shelf placement. I also see that a large number of them offer signal amplifiers. Some of the antennas, rather than offering the coaxial connection, instead offer both HDMI and USB connections. Which of these features (amplifier / HDMI / USB) are worth paying for, and what does each offer that a standard coaxial connection doesn't? Next, I can use my Apple TV or my Roku Ultra. From what I'm seeing, I think that more channels are available via Roku than Apple TV. Is this correct, or can either device connect to all the same available internet channels? I understand that I'll have to pay for channels (either by package on Apple or Ala-carte on Roku), but I still calculate that monthly expenses will be less than half the cost of Cox cable. Suggestions? Thanks very kindly - Glenn Some background: I have a Winegard VHF/UHF TV antenna that is mounted on the peak of my house. It's been up for 34 years and still going strong. The RG6 cable is run into the attic through the air vent gable and connected to the existing cable company RG6. I do have a preamp in the attic to combat cable and splitter loss. We have two TV's connected to the antenna. The preamp is a Kitztech. Works great from a small supplier. The antenna is grounded via 6 guage copper wire to an 8 ft, ground rod. This was installed by myself and a friend. We are in the Washington DC suburbs and about 26 miles or so from the towers which are all located in the same general area. If you are close to the broadcasting towers, you can experiment with an indoor antenna. If it works well, you are all set. You can also put an antenna in the attic. Having said that, an outdoor antenna will give you the best signal, period. If you don't want to attempt the install yourself, find a local installer. Again, 34 years and counting without issue. I reccommend Wineguard or Televes.
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 24, 2024 11:03:21 GMT -5
Regarding digital antennas, it depends on how far the broadcast towers are from you. If they aren't that far, then you don't need an amplified antenna and in fact amplified ones are worse for close-range and will overload the receiver. I use a Mohu Leaf flat antenna, which is probably what you have or similar to it. I've tried several other types and this one works the best but the most important thing is hanging it high and also so that the flat part faces the broadcast towers. The drawback is if your signals are coming from different directions then it is more of a hassle to keep moving a flat antenna than one that is easier to change direction. If you do have a signal amplifier, try running the channel scan with and without the amplifier to see which way works better. Just what I needed, monkumonku - I'll order one that is shelf mounted so we can rotate it conveniently. The stations we're wanting with the antenna are all local, so we probably don't need an amplifier. This afternoon, I'll explore the world of Roku & see if it provides the variety we need. My estimate is that the local (antenna) channels plus five or six from Roku will suffice for our needs. Roku setup seems pretty simple. Thanks again - Glenn Just a couple of suggestions, the higher up it is, the better, and also the closer to a window (or even on the window) that faces the broadcast towers, the better. It's like real estate - location, location, location.
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Post by leonski on Apr 24, 2024 11:48:51 GMT -5
Boom? Antenna 'needs' are based on area. If 50 or 60 miles out from transmitter? You may need a larger antenna or even a rotor......
My HAM radio people tell me that 'height is might' when it comes to antennas....More 'elements' are more directional and
while more sensitive, also require better aim.....(thus the rotor.....) In EXTREME cases, a tower of some sort.
Where I live? sort of between San Diego and OC / LA so I can get maybe 2 channels without help...of cable......
We have CCRs which forbid outdoor antennas! Welcome to California. Back when this was all 'new', we had a station
in SD play hardball and demanded a signal strength test BEFORE allowing us to receive their content on cable.
I'd be willing to try some online content IF I can get local news.
And you are correct. People NEVER watch all 185 (or whatever) channels, instead restricting themselves to maybe 15 to 20......
That is common.
Solution would be to not 'package' channels but instead only charge YOU for those you wish to receive.....But that 's just never ......
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Post by marcl on Apr 24, 2024 11:58:42 GMT -5
Boom? Antenna 'needs' are based on area. If 50 or 60 miles out from transmitter? You may need a larger antenna or even a rotor...... My HAM radio people tell me that 'height is might' when it comes to antennas....More 'elements' are more directional and while more sensitive, also require better aim.....(thus the rotor.....) In EXTREME cases, a tower of some sort. Where I live? sort of between San Diego and OC / LA so I can get maybe 2 channels without help...of cable...... We have CCRs which forbid outdoor antennas! Welcome to California. Back when this was all 'new', we had a station in SD play hardball and demanded a signal strength test BEFORE allowing us to receive their content on cable. I'd be willing to try some online content IF I can get local news. And you are correct. People NEVER watch all 185 (or whatever) channels, instead restricting themselves to maybe 15 to 20...... That is common. Solution would be to not 'package' channels but instead only charge YOU for those you wish to receive.....But that 's just never ...... Reading this exchange about antennae I went looking and found this ... kind of interesting to see how far they are from your location. www.channelmaster.com/pages/free-tv-channels-louisiana
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 24, 2024 12:14:53 GMT -5
Some background: I have a Winegard VHF/UHF TV antenna that is mounted on the peak of my house. It's been up for 34 years and still going strong. The RG6 cable is run into the attic through the air vent gable and connected to the existing cable company RG6. I do have a preamp in the attic to combat cable and splitter loss. We have two TV's connected to the antenna. The preamp is a Kitztech. Works great from a small supplier. The antenna is grounded via 6 guage copper wire to an 8 ft, ground rod. This was installed by myself and a friend. We are in the Washington DC suburbs and about 26 miles or so from the towers which are all located in the same general area. If you are close to the broadcasting towers, you can experiment with an indoor antenna. If it works well, you are all set. You can also put an antenna in the attic. Having said that, an outdoor antenna will give you the best signal, period. If you don't want to attempt the install yourself, find a local installer. Again, 34 years and counting without issue. I reccommend Wineguard or Televes. Excellent info - Thanks. Were we planning on staying in this house, I'd go with the outdoor or attic antenna. But since we hope to sell in the next year and move out of state, any new owner is (in our burg) more likely to just go with the local cable provider. That being the case, I expect we'll either go with a shelf-top antenna or else keep the wall mounted panel we currently have. My preference is to get a shelf-standing, amplified antenna and then bypass the amp for the strongest stations.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 24, 2024 12:22:48 GMT -5
...People NEVER watch all 185 (or whatever) channels, instead restricting themselves to maybe 15 to 20.... That is common. Solution would be to not 'package' channels but instead only charge YOU for those you wish to receive.....But that 's just never ...... A friend who works in the Louisiana Public Broadcasting network talked to me about that one time. His contention (and I suspect he's right) is that if you could pick and choose your channels, it would cost MORE (and very likely, a LOT more) than buying the package. Why? Many of the channels in your package actually PAY the cable provider to add their channels to the offering. For example, very few would choose to pay for online shopping channels, religious channels, or the knitting network. Therefore the money paid by those channels to be included in the package you buy actually defrays the cost of providing the channels you DO want. It's kind of like buying a car - You can buy a new one for X dollars, but if you wanted to buy the parts, it would cost 100X.
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 24, 2024 12:44:45 GMT -5
Some background: I have a Winegard VHF/UHF TV antenna that is mounted on the peak of my house. It's been up for 34 years and still going strong. The RG6 cable is run into the attic through the air vent gable and connected to the existing cable company RG6. I do have a preamp in the attic to combat cable and splitter loss. We have two TV's connected to the antenna. The preamp is a Kitztech. Works great from a small supplier. The antenna is grounded via 6 guage copper wire to an 8 ft, ground rod. This was installed by myself and a friend. We are in the Washington DC suburbs and about 26 miles or so from the towers which are all located in the same general area. If you are close to the broadcasting towers, you can experiment with an indoor antenna. If it works well, you are all set. You can also put an antenna in the attic. Having said that, an outdoor antenna will give you the best signal, period. If you don't want to attempt the install yourself, find a local installer. Again, 34 years and counting without issue. I reccommend Wineguard or Televes. Excellent info - Thanks. Were we planning on staying in this house, I'd go with the outdoor or attic antenna. But since we hope to sell in the next year and move out of state, any new owner is (in our burg) more likely to just go with the local cable provider. That being the case, I expect we'll either go with a shelf-top antenna or else keep the wall mounted panel we currently have. My preference is to get a shelf-standing, amplified antenna and then bypass the amp for the strongest stations. Look at - www.antennaweb.org/For station locations. www.tvfool.com/
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Post by marcl on Apr 24, 2024 12:50:04 GMT -5
Some background: I have a Winegard VHF/UHF TV antenna that is mounted on the peak of my house. It's been up for 34 years and still going strong. The RG6 cable is run into the attic through the air vent gable and connected to the existing cable company RG6. I do have a preamp in the attic to combat cable and splitter loss. We have two TV's connected to the antenna. The preamp is a Kitztech. Works great from a small supplier. The antenna is grounded via 6 guage copper wire to an 8 ft, ground rod. This was installed by myself and a friend. We are in the Washington DC suburbs and about 26 miles or so from the towers which are all located in the same general area. If you are close to the broadcasting towers, you can experiment with an indoor antenna. If it works well, you are all set. You can also put an antenna in the attic. Having said that, an outdoor antenna will give you the best signal, period. If you don't want to attempt the install yourself, find a local installer. Again, 34 years and counting without issue. I reccommend Wineguard or Televes. Excellent info - Thanks. Were we planning on staying in this house, I'd go with the outdoor or attic antenna. But since we hope to sell in the next year and move out of state, any new owner is (in our burg) more likely to just go with the local cable provider. That being the case, I expect we'll either go with a shelf-top antenna or else keep the wall mounted panel we currently have. My preference is to get a shelf-standing, amplified antenna and then bypass the amp for the strongest stations. The thing I don't understand is I have an indoor digital antenna and letting my LG TV scan it found 43 stations. But two of the local stations - ABC and PBS - whose broadcast antennae are on the same hill in Philly with all the other stations ... I get 0 signal. Makes no sense. and only 14 miles away!
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 24, 2024 13:13:44 GMT -5
Excellent info - Thanks. Were we planning on staying in this house, I'd go with the outdoor or attic antenna. But since we hope to sell in the next year and move out of state, any new owner is (in our burg) more likely to just go with the local cable provider. That being the case, I expect we'll either go with a shelf-top antenna or else keep the wall mounted panel we currently have. My preference is to get a shelf-standing, amplified antenna and then bypass the amp for the strongest stations. The thing I don't understand is I have an indoor digital antenna and letting my LG TV scan it found 43 stations. But two of the local stations - ABC and PBS - whose broadcast antennae are on the same hill in Philly with all the other stations ... I get 0 signal. Makes no sense. and only 14 miles away! Go to Anetnnaweb.org or tvfool and put in your zip code...it will tell you which stations are easily received. It could be a strength issue....or maybe something is blocking those channels where you are located...hard to say. Edit: you can search by address and it should show you what type of antenna you would need to pick up the various stations...green is usually indoor antenna...then it goes to yellow...red...etc.
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 24, 2024 13:31:15 GMT -5
Excellent info - Thanks. Were we planning on staying in this house, I'd go with the outdoor or attic antenna. But since we hope to sell in the next year and move out of state, any new owner is (in our burg) more likely to just go with the local cable provider. That being the case, I expect we'll either go with a shelf-top antenna or else keep the wall mounted panel we currently have. My preference is to get a shelf-standing, amplified antenna and then bypass the amp for the strongest stations. The thing I don't understand is I have an indoor digital antenna and letting my LG TV scan it found 43 stations. But two of the local stations - ABC and PBS - whose broadcast antennae are on the same hill in Philly with all the other stations ... I get 0 signal. Makes no sense. and only 14 miles away! Found this article: 6abc.com/having-trouble-watching-6abc-with-your-digital-antenna-try-some-of-these-solutions/1788650/
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 24, 2024 13:44:32 GMT -5
We have a digital antenna that's in a picture frame - can't find the brand or model, but it wasn't anything fancy/costly But, it pulls in channels over 50 miles away with ease.
But, frankly - we rarely use it. We got Hulu Live - and that includes all our local channels except PBS + a ton of channels. Our base monthly bill - with ESPN+ and Disney+ bundled is $87.32. I think it's <$80 w/o ESPN+ and Disney+. We also added a couple other extras (Unlimited screens so we can have more than their basic # running at once - which was key when our kids lived at home...we could probably drop that now, and we also have Max) that drive it up to $115/month.
That includes a nice cloud-based DVR service, ability to live stream a lot of movies and original Hulu content, etc.
You can do a free trial of Hulu Live...think it's 7 or 14 days.
I like that option over using our digital antenna because we can just stay in Hulu Live to watch local TV and switch over to other non-local content without switching inputs.
Go to hulu.com/welcome and choose the build a plan, then click on the Live TV option (the base Hulu package is only their streaming content, not live TV including local channels).
As noted - the only local live TV not included is PBS. And, that's the only thing we use our antenna for.
Mark
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 24, 2024 13:50:26 GMT -5
Excellent info - Thanks. Were we planning on staying in this house, I'd go with the outdoor or attic antenna. But since we hope to sell in the next year and move out of state, any new owner is (in our burg) more likely to just go with the local cable provider. That being the case, I expect we'll either go with a shelf-top antenna or else keep the wall mounted panel we currently have. My preference is to get a shelf-standing, amplified antenna and then bypass the amp for the strongest stations. The thing I don't understand is I have an indoor digital antenna and letting my LG TV scan it found 43 stations. But two of the local stations - ABC and PBS - whose broadcast antennae are on the same hill in Philly with all the other stations ... I get 0 signal. Makes no sense. and only 14 miles away! Try a rescan....ABC6 says they have boosted their power....
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cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 24, 2024 13:53:13 GMT -5
We have a digital antenna that's in a picture frame - can't find the brand or model, but it wasn't anything fancy/costly But, it pulls in channels over 50 miles away with ease. But, frankly - we rarely use it. We got Hulu Live - and that includes all our local channels except PBS + a ton of channels. Our base monthly bill - with ESPN+ and Disney+ bundled is $87.32. I think it's <$80 w/o ESPN+ and Disney+. We also added a couple other extras (Unlimited screens so we can have more than their basic # running at once - which was key when our kids lived at home...we could probably drop that now, and we also have Max) that drive it up to $115/month. That includes a nice cloud-based DVR service, ability to live stream a lot of movies and original Hulu content, etc. You can do a free trial of Hulu Live...think it's 7 or 14 days. I like that option over using our digital antenna because we can just stay in Hulu Live to watch local TV and switch over to other non-local content without switching inputs. Go to hulu.com/welcome and choose the build a plan, then click on the Live TV option (the base Hulu package is only their streaming content, not live TV including local channels). As noted - the only local live TV not included is PBS. And, that's the only thing we use our antenna for. Mark The one advantage to OTA with antenna is the ability to view when/if the internet goes down, or in our case since we still have Directv, when the rain or snow comes into play.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 24, 2024 15:02:07 GMT -5
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Post by marcl on Apr 24, 2024 15:47:31 GMT -5
The thing I don't understand is I have an indoor digital antenna and letting my LG TV scan it found 43 stations. But two of the local stations - ABC and PBS - whose broadcast antennae are on the same hill in Philly with all the other stations ... I get 0 signal. Makes no sense. and only 14 miles away! Try a rescan....ABC6 says they have boosted their power.... I did, but no difference. I get some stations that are much farther away, but not those two. It really is weird because it's been known all my life that ALL the TV stations broad cast from the "towers at Roxboro" ... all of them on a hill 14 miles from my house. I can get 3, 10, 17, 29 and 48 .... but not 6 or 12 with this digital antenna. There is a big regular antenna in the attic and when I used to use that it was fine. I had tried another one and that was not good, so I have this one now. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NQ46FHR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1Anyway ... fortunately I never watch broadcast except sometimes PBS which I can stream, and last couple years the World Cup was on 29 and we watched that. Amazing how I went from having two satellite dishes in the backyard up until 2017 ... then just ditched it for Apple TV.
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Post by leonski on Apr 24, 2024 15:47:59 GMT -5
...People NEVER watch all 185 (or whatever) channels, instead restricting themselves to maybe 15 to 20.... That is common. Solution would be to not 'package' channels but instead only charge YOU for those you wish to receive.....But that 's just never ...... A friend who works in the Louisiana Public Broadcasting network talked to me about that one time. His contention (and I suspect he's right) is that if you could pick and choose your channels, it would cost MORE (and very likely, a LOT more) than buying the package. Why? Many of the channels in your package actually PAY the cable provider to add their channels to the offering. For example, very few would choose to pay for online shopping channels, religious channels, or the knitting network. Therefore the money paid by those channels to be included in the package you buy actually defrays the cost of providing the channels you DO want. It's kind of like buying a car - You can buy a new one for X dollars, but if you wanted to buy the parts, it would cost 100X. OTOH? Unless such wacky channels received LOTS of backing, they'd eventually go under for lack of viewership.... If such channels have enough money to bribe there way into the listings, than people will PAY for the privilage of being bilked. I won't.....And any channels in the categorys you mention? I'll skip 'em all unless there is a Zen Anabaptist station.... The 'owners' of the conglomerates make sure you get the package or nothing. THAN? We missed a certain channel here a couple months back. The provider.....DTV, was being 'held up' for higher fees for this channel.... This has happened several times over the years. I once looked into it in greater depth and EACH side lies. And the provider refused to sign an 'interim' agreement while a long term solution was negotiated. More parasites.
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 24, 2024 17:19:23 GMT -5
Make sure to post a review!
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Post by leonski on Apr 25, 2024 0:31:52 GMT -5
One Minor Beef, if I may? 910 MILES? TV frequencies are pretty much 'line of sight' with a few atmospheric exceptions. When I was a kid? I 'DXd' the TV going to non-local channels and once picked up a weak signal from Milwaukee.....call it 80 miles PLUS another 15 or 20 to the South 'Burbs where I lived. I would NOT expect to get TV any further than that unless I put UP a pretty expensive antenna and rotor.....My house antenna was 'typical' for the time and probably not aimed perfectly for those stations.... This was far in advance of digital anything except TOES.
Different 'skip' and alphabet soup phenom can cause very long distance reception but do NOT count on it.....
RF amplifiers, as all amps do, tend to amplify noise as well....A good, quiet amp really helps in this regard.
MONK? In your review? Please rotate antenna 15 degrees than 30, than 45 from 'greatest' signal strength. Just to see how well it does off-axis....
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