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Post by leonski on May 6, 2024 0:17:50 GMT -5
Once you get it 'settled'......even if not completely to your satisfaction? I want a BLOCK DIAGRAM of interconnects. Come up with some 'symbol' for 'wireless connection'......but the rest should be fairly easy....
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Post by Boomzilla on May 6, 2024 0:54:21 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on May 6, 2024 15:18:17 GMT -5
OK - For what it's worth (and for anyone else who cares):
Using an iPhone + Camera Adapter + USB DAC as an endpoint for Roon DOES NOT WORK. Roon can't see the DAC, even if both the Mac mini with Roon Core and the iPhone are BOTH on the same WiFi network.
The cost of this experiment was minimal, and the USB DAC (an AudioQuest Dragonfly Red) is working properly (once plugged directly into the Mac mini).
So, what's next? I still don't have a Roon Nucleus to work with - I see two possibilities:
1. Move the Mac mini to the living room so it can feed music directly into the audio system via USB. The only way this will work is if I can direct the video from the Mac mini to the Computer room (and the Cinema Display) via Ethernet AND that I can use the Computer room keyboard over Ethernet as well. Anyone know if this is feasible?
2. Put a PC (laptop, desktop, or NUC) onto the music rack in the living room, and force it to act as an endpoint for Roon. I - DO - want a PC and not a Mac there. Why? Because the RBH subwoofer that is coming to me for a review has DSP available, but their DSP program will ONLY run on a PC. So my options here are (in order of preference): Borrow a desktop or laptop until June when the Roon arrives OR go to the local computer recyclers & buy a cheap PC OR persuade my audio amigo to loan me his (new in the box) NUC for use as an endpoint.
Oh well...
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Post by fbczar on May 6, 2024 15:22:40 GMT -5
OK - For what it's worth (and for anyone else who cares): Using an iPhone + Camera Adapter + USB DAC as an endpoint for Roon DOES NOT WORK. Roon can't see the DAC, even if both the Mac mini with Roon Core and the iPhone are BOTH on the same WiFi network. The cost of this experiment was minimal, and the USB DAC (an AudioQuest Dragonfly Red) is working properly (once plugged directly into the Mac mini). So, what's next? I still don't have a Roon Nucleus to work with - I see two possibilities: 1. Move the Mac mini to the living room so it can feed music directly into the audio system via USB. The only way this will work is if I can direct the video from the Mac mini to the Computer room (and the Cinema Display) via Ethernet AND that I can use the Computer room keyboard over Ethernet as well. Anyone know if this is feasible? 2. Put a PC (laptop, desktop, or NUC) onto the music rack in the living room, and force it to act as an endpoint for Roon. I - DO - want a PC and not a Mac there. Why? Because the RBH subwoofer that is coming to me for a review has DSP available, but their DSP program will ONLY run on a PC. So my options here are (in order of preference): Borrow a desktop or laptop until June when the Roon arrives OR go to the local computer recyclers & buy a cheap PC OR persuade my audio amigo to loan me his (new in the box) NUC for use as an endpoint. Oh well... Boom, Try setting up ARC. ARC can be connected via your iPhone by way of Bluetooth or a wired connection to a DAC. ARC should see the DAC.
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Post by leonski on May 6, 2024 16:10:20 GMT -5
Seems like the whole thing has nearly spun out of control......
Glad I JUST have a stereo with my older mac to a DAC via optical.....and I can use my phone as a 'remote' (app is OK, but not great).
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on May 6, 2024 16:50:55 GMT -5
Hi... I'm a tiny bit confused here...
If you connect an ordinary PCM DAC to the iPhone then I can't see how Roon would see the DAC...
An ordinary PCM DAC is not "a Roon endpoint"...
I would expect (or at least hope) that Roon would see THE IPHONE as its end-point. (As far as Roon is concerned, the iPhone would be "a computer", and the DAC is "the computer's sound card".) And it isn't going to work if Roon won't accept the iPhone as a computer.
As for your options... how about this... 2-1/2. Buy a cheap used middle-of-the road laptop.
Plug the DragonFly into it. Use that set as your Roon endpoint. (It's always handy to have a laptop lying around in case you need one.)
OK - For what it's worth (and for anyone else who cares): Using an iPhone + Camera Adapter + USB DAC as an endpoint for Roon DOES NOT WORK. Roon can't see the DAC, even if both the Mac mini with Roon Core and the iPhone are BOTH on the same WiFi network. The cost of this experiment was minimal, and the USB DAC (an AudioQuest Dragonfly Red) is working properly (once plugged directly into the Mac mini). So, what's next? I still don't have a Roon Nucleus to work with - I see two possibilities: 1. Move the Mac mini to the living room so it can feed music directly into the audio system via USB. The only way this will work is if I can direct the video from the Mac mini to the Computer room (and the Cinema Display) via Ethernet AND that I can use the Computer room keyboard over Ethernet as well. Anyone know if this is feasible? 2. Put a PC (laptop, desktop, or NUC) onto the music rack in the living room, and force it to act as an endpoint for Roon. I - DO - want a PC and not a Mac there. Why? Because the RBH subwoofer that is coming to me for a review has DSP available, but their DSP program will ONLY run on a PC. So my options here are (in order of preference): Borrow a desktop or laptop until June when the Roon arrives OR go to the local computer recyclers & buy a cheap PC OR persuade my audio amigo to loan me his (new in the box) NUC for use as an endpoint. Oh well...
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Post by Boomzilla on May 6, 2024 19:22:02 GMT -5
Laptops are more expensive than desktops, and I **do** have the TV in the listening room to do duty as a monitor if needed. Although I also have a slew of wireless keyboards with trackballs built in, they're all for Apple. I'll make a trip to the local Goodwill tomorrow to see what keyboards they have. If necessary, I'll hit the dollar stores.
I see that I can get a NUC with 8GB/RAM, Win10, and a 256GB/SSD from eBay for $49/free shipping. I know (for a fact) that NUCs work as endpoints since I've used one before. I'll either install the Roon core on the NUC (or not). Plugging in the AudioQuest Dragonfly Red, I've got what I need.
When the Nucleus arrives, I can set the NUC aside & use it for occasional programs (such as the RBH subwoofer DSP) that require Windows.
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Post by leonski on May 6, 2024 20:06:02 GMT -5
Hi... I'm a tiny bit confused here...
If you connect an ordinary PCM DAC to the iPhone then I can't see how Roon would see the DAC...
An ordinary PCM DAC is not "a Roon endpoint"...
I would expect (or at least hope) that Roon would see THE IPHONE as its end-point. (As far as Roon is concerned, the iPhone would be "a computer", and the DAC is "the computer's sound card".) And it isn't going to work if Roon won't accept the iPhone as a computer.
As for your options... how about this... 2-1/2. Buy a cheap used middle-of-the road laptop.
Plug the DragonFly into it. Use that set as your Roon endpoint. (It's always handy to have a laptop lying around in case you need one.)
OK - For what it's worth (and for anyone else who cares): Using an iPhone + Camera Adapter + USB DAC as an endpoint for Roon DOES NOT WORK. Roon can't see the DAC, even if both the Mac mini with Roon Core and the iPhone are BOTH on the same WiFi network. The cost of this experiment was minimal, and the USB DAC (an AudioQuest Dragonfly Red) is working properly (once plugged directly into the Mac mini). So, what's next? I still don't have a Roon Nucleus to work with - I see two possibilities: 1. Move the Mac mini to the living room so it can feed music directly into the audio system via USB. The only way this will work is if I can direct the video from the Mac mini to the Computer room (and the Cinema Display) via Ethernet AND that I can use the Computer room keyboard over Ethernet as well. Anyone know if this is feasible? 2. Put a PC (laptop, desktop, or NUC) onto the music rack in the living room, and force it to act as an endpoint for Roon. I - DO - want a PC and not a Mac there. Why? Because the RBH subwoofer that is coming to me for a review has DSP available, but their DSP program will ONLY run on a PC. So my options here are (in order of preference): Borrow a desktop or laptop until June when the Roon arrives OR go to the local computer recyclers & buy a cheap PC OR persuade my audio amigo to loan me his (new in the box) NUC for use as an endpoint. Oh well... only hangup I see is if ROON / Dragonfly require newest version of windows. I've got a bit of SW for my laptop but require I upgrade my Win2k with SP4....... What IS latest version?
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Post by Boomzilla on May 6, 2024 21:28:21 GMT -5
Ya know…. It’s the sixth of May already, and Roon is SUPPOSED to ship the new Nucleus One starting in mid-June. Rather than spend another penny on Roon’s stubborn unwillingness to stream music to my Apple-TV, I think I’ll just wait for Roon to ship me what I’ve already paid for. If they can’t get my tunes back by the time they’ve promised, it may be time for me to abandon Roon entirely and just move on (jRiver? Audirvana? Something else?). I’m tolerant of corporate shenanigans to a point, but I’m rapidly approaching my limit.
But…. I keep encountering software that will only run on Windows. I could crud-up my Mac with a virtual Windows machine running under VM-Ware or similar, but I’ve been down that road before, and it’s a nightmare trying to keep OS-X, VM-Ware, and Windows working together. Every time one upgrades, everything stops working until the other two issue patches. The complexity is an issue.
Since software companies seem unable to realize that it’s now the 21st century, and that many if not most of us no longer use Windows exclusively, I will need to have some way to run Windows (and approximately the current version). The cheapest way I see to get to that goal is to buy a NUC with Windows already on it.
Boom
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Post by oldwood on May 7, 2024 9:01:29 GMT -5
Ya know…. It’s the sixth of May already, and Roon is SUPPOSED to ship the new Nucleus One starting in mid-June. Rather than spend another penny on Roon’s stubborn unwillingness to stream music to my Apple-TV, I think I’ll just wait for Roon to ship me what I’ve already paid for. If they can’t get my tunes back by the time they’ve promised, it may be time for me to abandon Roon entirely and just move on (jRiver? Audirvana? Something else?). I’m tolerant of corporate shenanigans to a point, but I’m rapidly approaching my limit. But…. I keep encountering software that will only run on Windows. I could crud-up my Mac with a virtual Windows machine running under VM-Ware or similar, but I’ve been down that road before, and it’s a nightmare trying to keep OS-X, VM-Ware, and Windows working together. Every time one upgrades, everything stops working until the other two issue patches. The complexity is an issue. Since software companies seem unable to realize that it’s now the 21st century, and that many if not most of us no longer use Windows exclusively, I will need to have some way to run Windows (and approximately the current version). The cheapest way I see to get to that goal is to buy a NUC with Windows already on it. Boom I don't know what your needs are, but I found Strawberry music player has all the features I need and a lot I don't use. I use it on Linux Mint Mate which is a Windows 7 style desktop, but Strawberry is available for MAC. www.strawberrymusicplayer.org/
If you have an old laptop Linux Mint works well on older hardware, I find a min of 16 gig of memory for large music collections is best. I found the transition from Win 7 to Linux Mint much easier than the transition to Windows 10.
I have an old PC that has Mint running Strawberry and it does nothing but play music.
The people on the Mint forum are friendly and helpful for any learning questions getting started.
It is a bit of a learning curve going the Mint, but I could not go back to Windows.
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Post by Boomzilla on May 7, 2024 9:42:45 GMT -5
Thanks oldwood - Yours is an excellent suggestion, but it won’t work for me. Why? Any machine that I get will have to do dual duty - Serve as an endpoint for Roon **AND** serve as a Windows box to run software that demands Windows. I’d much prefer a simpler setup as you suggest, but to do that, I’d then still need a Windows box! Even so, thanks for your thoughtful feedback - I appreciate it greatly! Glenn
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Post by oldwood on May 7, 2024 12:18:26 GMT -5
Thanks oldwood - Yours is an excellent suggestion, but it won’t work for me. Why? Any machine that I get will have to do dual duty - Serve as an endpoint for Roon **AND** serve as a Windows box to run software that demands Windows. I’d much prefer a simpler setup as you suggest, but to do that, I’d then still need a Windows box! Even so, thanks for your thoughtful feedback - I appreciate it greatly! Glenn That is the good thing about free advice......it is free, but often worth what you pay for it
I have read a little about Roon, but don't know much, as I have never used it. I have found a way to make Strawberry do all I need it to do. Yesterday, I learned how to control playback of the software on the Linux box with my Android phone. That was a feature I have been looking for.
I hope you get all the bits together to make it work for you soon.
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Post by leonski on May 7, 2024 12:31:07 GMT -5
Trouble....or at least a concern.....with older computers is compatibility with new 64 bit software. My older MAC was only 32bit capable (2009) which meant many updates were simply not available.....
Is the code for all these devices 64bit or 32bit?
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Post by Boomzilla on May 7, 2024 13:25:02 GMT -5
Trouble....or at least a concern.....with older computers is compatibility with new 64 bit software. My older MAC was only 32bit capable (2009) which meant many updates were simply not available..... Is the code for all these devices 64bit or 32bit? The manufacturer says ANY Windows machine is sufficient because the software requirements are absolutely minimal.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on May 7, 2024 13:42:36 GMT -5
It's really not worth buying a used keyboard... Keyboards do wear out... and new ones start at around $12 on Amazon... Laptops are more expensive than desktops, and I **do** have the TV in the listening room to do duty as a monitor if needed. Although I also have a slew of wireless keyboards with trackballs built in, they're all for Apple. I'll make a trip to the local Goodwill tomorrow to see what keyboards they have. If necessary, I'll hit the dollar stores. I see that I can get a NUC with 8GB/RAM, Win10, and a 256GB/SSD from eBay for $49/free shipping. I know (for a fact) that NUCs work as endpoints since I've used one before. I'll either install the Roon core on the NUC (or not). Plugging in the AudioQuest Dragonfly Red, I've got what I need. When the Nucleus arrives, I can set the NUC aside & use it for occasional programs (such as the RBH subwoofer DSP) that require Windows.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,004
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Post by KeithL on May 7, 2024 13:53:07 GMT -5
Most modern Windows computers are 64 bits... However, Windows 10 does still exist in both 32 bit and 64 bit versions... So, if you buy an older used machine, it could be either. It's also worth noting that a 64 bit PC can run either version of Windows. This only matters because, if buy an old used computer, the seller will often "wipe it and install whatever version of Windows they have handy". And, in that case, you could end up with a 64 bit machine, that has a 32 bit version of Windows installed on it. (And, if that happens, you cannot "just upgrade it to the 64 bit version" because of "licensing issues".) Just go to the little "Search Bar" and type "version"... That will take you to the System Information screen... Just make sure it says: "System Type - x64 Based PC" or something like that. Roon seems to be recommending Windows 10 help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/faq-what-are-the-minimum-requirements#Typical_UsageDo be a bit careful... Some really cheap refurbished computers you find on eBay may still be running Windows 7, Windows 8, or Windows 8.1 ... Trouble....or at least a concern.....with older computers is compatibility with new 64 bit software. My older MAC was only 32bit capable (2009) which meant many updates were simply not available..... Is the code for all these devices 64bit or 32bit?
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Post by leonski on May 7, 2024 16:05:58 GMT -5
I've got an old disc around here of Windows 95b.....which I think supports USB 1 ports.......
Anybody want it?
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Post by Boomzilla on May 7, 2024 16:13:41 GMT -5
Most modern Windows computers are 64 bits... However, Windows 10 does still exist in both 32 bit and 64 bit versions... So, if you buy an older used machine, it could be either. It's also worth noting that a 64 bit PC can run either version of Windows. This only matters because, if buy an old used computer, the seller will often "wipe it and install whatever version of Windows they have handy". And, in that case, you could end up with a 64 bit machine, that has a 32 bit version of Windows installed on it. (And, if that happens, you cannot "just upgrade it to the 64 bit version" because of "licensing issues".)...Roon seems to be recommending Windows 10 help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/faq-what-are-the-minimum-requirements#Typical_Usage... The sub manufacturer (only reason I'm buying a Windoze machine) says, "The hardware requirements are next to nothing. All you need is an ethernet cable and a USB port. Any modern hardware will be overkill to run the software. We'll be happy to teach you when you get the sub. We'll have to share the software with you..." From Amazon Prime, I ordered an Intel NUC: Windows 11 6GB RAM 128GB SSD (I have 500GB, 1TB, 2TB, & 3TB SSDs in my parts bin if needed) Celeron N4000 CPU 12VDC power supply 2 HDMI ports 2 Rear USB-A ports, 2 Front USB-A ports 1 Gigabit Ethernet port 1 Analog Headphone Jack with Optical TOSLINK in bottom of jack TOTAL COST (after shipping) = $99
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Post by Boomzilla on May 7, 2024 20:19:28 GMT -5
An audio amigo commented on the great price I got on my NUC. There are reasons:
The NUC is "refurbished," but DOES have a warranty. No keyboard or monitor were included. Had it lacked the warranty, I wouldn't have bought it.
I think that the computer comes with a power supply, but even if it doesn't I've got a closet full of 12VDC power supplies of very high amperage capacities.
When on the equipment rack, the NUC can feed the Samsung 65" TV via HDMI. I have a Bluetooth keyboard / trackball combo that I can use from my recliner.
I ordered three (3) AC power strips and ten (10) one-foot-long IEC power cables. I'll screw one of the 36-inch-long power strips under each of the equipment rack shelves. Then a one-foot IEC cable should then suffice to reach every component, neatening up the wire clutter significantly. If I then route the interconnects on the top surface of the shelves (power cables will be on the bottom), I can arrange 90-degree crossings for every interconnect / power-cable pair reducing the potential for hum.
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KeithL
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Posts: 10,004
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Post by KeithL on May 8, 2024 9:55:53 GMT -5
A BIT of WINDOWS history...For those who haven't been keeping track...Windows Windows 2 Windows 2.1 Windows 3 Windows 3.1 Windows 3.11 (Windows for Workgroups) Windows 95 Windows 98 Windows NT Windows 2000 (Windows 2k) Windows ME (Millennium Edition) Windows XP Windows 7 Windows 8 Windows 8.1 Windows 10 Windows 11 And, as you might expect, most NEW software won't run on very old versions... And a lot of really old software won't run on relatively new versions... Some of these also came in both 32 bit and 64 bit versions... The 32 bit versions will run on both 32 bit and 64 bit hardware... The 64 bit versions will only run on 64 bit hardware... Most software will run on both... (but not all)... Current versions, at least when running on Intel processors, are almost always 64 bit. Both Windows 10 and Windows 11 are considered "current"... And most current programs will run on both... Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 are pretty recent; a lot of modern software will run on them too. Windows 8 was NOT very popular so most people upgraded it to Windows 8.1 when they had the chance (the upgrade was free). Microsoft offered anyone with Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 a FREE upgrade to Windows 10 for years... which MOST people took. Some modern software will run on Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 HOWEVER most vendors DO NOT provide drivers or support for them. (That's a nice way of saying that a current program might run on Windows 8.1 but, if it doesn't nobody is going to offer much support.) (You mostly see Windows 8 or 8.1 on old refurbished machines... because they were originally sold with it... and are still licensed for it.) Windows 7 was probably the most popular... but now you can't get drivers for it for most hardware. Also, FYI, there was a big "jump" in USB support early in Windows 10. Windows 10 versions, and copies updated after about the first year, now have internal "USB Audio Class 2" support... (All versions of Windows 10 that now have "3D Paint" rather than "Paint" in their list of Apps include this update.) (This is why many DACs require drivers for Windows 7 and before, but do not require drivers for Windows 10, or Windows 11.) Hi... I'm a tiny bit confused here...
If you connect an ordinary PCM DAC to the iPhone then I can't see how Roon would see the DAC...
An ordinary PCM DAC is not "a Roon endpoint"...
I would expect (or at least hope) that Roon would see THE IPHONE as its end-point. (As far as Roon is concerned, the iPhone would be "a computer", and the DAC is "the computer's sound card".) And it isn't going to work if Roon won't accept the iPhone as a computer.
As for your options... how about this... 2-1/2. Buy a cheap used middle-of-the road laptop.
Plug the DragonFly into it. Use that set as your Roon endpoint. (It's always handy to have a laptop lying around in case you need one.)
only hangup I see is if ROON / Dragonfly require newest version of windows. I've got a bit of SW for my laptop but require I upgrade my Win2k with SP4....... What IS latest version?
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