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Post by bluescale on Jun 2, 2014 20:46:32 GMT -5
As for xmc-1, I hope we don't have this problem again. However, the fact that Emotiva proclaimed that the xmc-1 is hdmi 2.0 compliant, and then later it was retracted (they mis-interpreted the specs), I am no so confident right now. I certainly hope this isn't a problem with the XMC-1. Despite Andrew's assertion that anything other than 4:2:0 is a gimmick, I upsample Chroma on my HTPC, and pass everything through my iScan Duo as 4:4:4. Right now I send audio out of the Duo to the UMC-1, and video directly to my plasma. I hope not to have to do that anymore, as it complicates the HDMI chain, and makes things more susceptible to handshake issues.
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 2, 2014 22:02:32 GMT -5
As for xmc-1, I hope we don't have this problem again. However, the fact that Emotiva proclaimed that the xmc-1 is hdmi 2.0 compliant, and then later it was retracted (they mis-interpreted the specs), I am no so confident right now. I certainly hope this isn't a problem with the XMC-1. Despite Andrew's assertion that anything other than 4:2:0 is a gimmick, I upsample Chroma on my HTPC, and pass everything through my iScan Duo as 4:4:4. Right now I send audio out of the Duo to the UMC-1, and video directly to my plasma. I hope not to have to do that anymore, as it complicates the HDMI chain, and makes things more susceptible to handshake issues. I never said anything other than 4:2:0 is a gimmick. I said trying to turn 4:2:0 into something other than 4:2:0 is a gimmick. Higher bitrate color subsampled at 4:2:2 or better still 4:4:4 is no gimmick, its superior in every way. But just because you set some device to 4:2:2 doesn't mean you're getting it. You may be getting an approximation of it (better subsampling) but the real deal it is not. If I give you two apples you cannot magically turn them into four apples. You can apply some fancy trickery and make it appear like you have four apples, say for example with a mirror, but you still only have two apples. This is what I'm talking about with regards to Deep Color, upsampling imagery, what ever. You're only duplicating existing information or approximating different information based on the info given initially, which is a big difference compared to having more info natively. Now, if you like the way upsampled images and color looks, keep on keepin' on and enjoy yourself. This hobby is all about choice and, despite what a lot of people would have you think, it's really about what the individual prefers. There is no real reference apart from a person's personal reference. That's the God's honest truth, which is why there are so many different ways to skin the proverbial cat. Yes, there is a standard with which all displays, source components and what not should be set and/or calibrated to. Are they? No. Why? Because people have their own preferences. And good on 'em, I'd rather everyone just be happy and enjoy themselves. This is not my cross to bear. The OP had a question, I offered a solution and a reasonable explanation to accompany it. It was never meant to become a debate over whether or not Deep Color is valid or not. Just understand, that Deep Color has its issues and that those issues may cause the UMC-200 to operate strangely. For best results, just like with a lot of HDMI innovations, turn it off and you'll be great. If you prefer to do things differently, cool.
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Post by bluescale on Jun 2, 2014 22:18:03 GMT -5
I never said anything other than 4:2:0 is a gimmick. I said trying to turn 4:2:0 into something other than 4:2:0 is a gimmick. Fair enough. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, and I apologize for doing so.
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Post by cwt on Jun 3, 2014 6:15:49 GMT -5
Always worth taking into a/c what hdmi.org says before buying - hdmi is a minefield The actual 1.4 standard was released way back in 2009 and was mainly done to satisfy ce's wanting to bitstream lossless rather than decoded lpcm to avrs ; the only colour space reference was for digital cameras that's how much importance it had .. btw ; just to muddy the waters a bit ; bit depth isn't the same as colour space so things can get complicated
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Post by thrillcat on Jun 3, 2014 8:07:04 GMT -5
Exactly. Just because you pour a 12oz beer into a pint glass doesn't give you 16oz of beer.
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Post by cwt on Jun 3, 2014 10:52:56 GMT -5
Exactly. Just because you pour a 12oz beer into a pint glass doesn't give you 16oz of beer. The voice of experience if ever I heard it Mmm ; it's still 8bit as Andrew said ..
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Post by stoopalini on Jun 3, 2014 11:09:31 GMT -5
Exactly. Just because you pour a 12oz beer into a pint glass doesn't give you 16oz of beer. The voice of experience if ever I heard it Mmm ; it's still 8bit as Andrew said .. But it does allow you to run faster without spilling your beer
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Post by thrillcat on Jun 3, 2014 11:16:48 GMT -5
The voice of experience if ever I heard it Mmm ; it's still 8bit as Andrew said .. But it does allow you to run faster without spilling your beer Which does not get you more tipsy. Less, as a matter of fact.
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Post by bluescale on Jun 3, 2014 11:29:41 GMT -5
Exactly. Just because you pour a 12oz beer into a pint glass doesn't give you 16oz of beer. The voice of experience if ever I heard it Mmm ; it's still 8bit as Andrew said .. We can argue the merits of interpolation, upsampling, etc...all we want, but that really shouldn't be the focus here. The fact remains that a HUGE number of people use it. If people are experiencing problems using Emotiva hardware, they should contact support to determine whether the problem lies with the Emotiva hardware, or elsewhere in their chain. As Andrew said, everyone has their preference. It's best to respect that, and get them the help they need.
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Post by gismo31 on Jun 5, 2014 14:23:58 GMT -5
well, i'm still waiting for a solution ....
meanwhile : players that dont work : oppo 103/105, ps3, pioneer lx55, panasonic bd500, dune players.
players that work : none.
feel free to complete ;-)
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Post by bluescale on Jun 5, 2014 16:41:25 GMT -5
Hi gismo31,
Have you contacted support. While Emotiva employees sometimes post here, tech support is the place to get official assistance.
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Post by gismo31 on Jun 6, 2014 7:54:30 GMT -5
yes of course. i got the same answer as above: disconnect it.
and i'm not satisifed at all with that answer :-(
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bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Jun 6, 2014 8:13:22 GMT -5
yes of course. i got the same answer as above: disconnect it. and i'm not satisifed at all with that answer :-( Then I guess you know what you need to do. Good thing there are many choices available so you can do what you feel is vital to your viewing pleasure. Good luck!
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Post by Andrew Robinson on Jun 6, 2014 9:12:15 GMT -5
I just finished testing the UMC-200 with the Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray player running a Blu-ray with the color space on both outputs set to deep color. It works just fine. No skips, drops or otherwise. So, again, I'm not sure what it is that the OP is doing or how he's setting his system up, but the 103 with Deep Color turned on plays fine into the UMC-200. Conversely, I just ran THE SAME test with the XMC-1 at 4K (upscaled HD content) with Deep Color on as well, it too works brilliantly. At this point I'm inclined to think the OP may have an issue with his HDMI cables -as they can be finicky with this sort of thing too. The Dune "issue" has been explained, however with an HDMI compliant device like the Oppo, Deep Color works just fine in my tests running into a UMC-200.
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Post by ÈlTwo on Jun 6, 2014 10:06:38 GMT -5
I just ran THE SAME test with the XMC-1 . . . :DAwww, don't say that, it's like teasing.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jun 6, 2014 10:23:53 GMT -5
I just ran THE SAME test with the XMC-1 . . . :DAwww, don't say that, it's like teasing. He meant to say I just ran THE SAME test with LOVE.
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Post by petes on Jun 11, 2014 13:39:05 GMT -5
Whilst I do tend to agree with Andrew that enabling Deep Colour (I'm English, hence the ..u..) when you don't have > 8 bit source material, there is definitely an issue with the UMC-200 and Deep Colour - if you do have it enabled, it definitely causes occasional video and audio dropouts.
In my system, I run all my sources to a DVDO Duo, from here to the UMC-200 and thence to the Pana VT65 display. If I enable Deep Colour on the output of the Duo, I get occasional drops. The frequency varies from slightly annoying to completely unwatchable. If I turn it off, no drop outs. So, same cables, same setup, same everything - works with no Deep Colour, doesn't without. Then, if I take the UMC-200 out of the chain, by running the video directly from the Duo to the display and using the HDMI Audio output from the Duo just to the UMC, then Deep Colour in the same setup works fine. So, again, same setup, same cables, swapping the UMC in or out of the chain doesn't work if you have Deep Colour enabled.
You can argue that perhaps the UMC-200 is the one component that is properly HDMI compliant, and the others aren't, but it does seem unlikely. I have Oppo, DVDO and Panasonic and any combination of Deep Colour is fine - 3 different manufactures. Put the UMC in the chain, and it suffers from dropouts if Deep Colour is enabled, but not if I turn it off on the Duo's output. I don't really see how this can be anything other than a problem with the UMC's capability with high bandwidths with certain setups. I'm certainly not saying that all setups have the problems, or that Deep Colour doesn't work. It just seems that the UMC-200 is much more susceptible to problems with Deep Colour than components from a bunch of other manufactures.
TBH, I don't see this as a huge problem for me - I'll just leave it turned off as it's just extrapolating data anyway - but there does seem to be a problem.
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Post by cwt on Jun 12, 2014 6:51:48 GMT -5
You can argue that perhaps the UMC-200 is the one component that is properly HDMI compliant, and the others aren't, but it does seem unlikely. I have Oppo, DVDO and Panasonic and any combination of Deep Colour is fine - 3 different manufactures. Put the UMC in the chain, and it suffers from dropouts if Deep Colour is enabled, but not if I turn it off on the Duo's output. I don't really see how this can be anything other than a problem with the UMC's capability with high bandwidths with certain setups. I'm certainly not saying that all setups have the problems, or that Deep Colour doesn't work. It just seems that the UMC-200 is much more susceptible to problems with Deep Colour than components from a bunch of other manufactures. TBH, I don't see this as a huge problem for me - I'll just leave it turned off as it's just extrapolating data anyway - but there does seem to be a problem. Just to confirm petes what happens when you set the 83se to 36bit say and bypass the duo straight to the umc200 ; dropouts ? That should narrow things down if you haven't tried this already ..
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Post by richardrc on Jun 12, 2014 20:15:39 GMT -5
Just to make an observation, rather than being "right or wrong" but it appears that all of those with issues live in "PAL" countries, unfortunately I am not in a position to test this issue and have never experienced it with my UMC-1.
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Post by stoopalini on Jun 13, 2014 8:50:55 GMT -5
I am not in a PAL country (I'm in the USA) and Deep Color does not function through my UMC-200.
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