XPA-1L as fast as XPA-2, what about XPA-3?

[brubacca]

Well,

I finally have my stereo system sorted out. It is time get get a good amp for my HT (which is 2ch for now).

I have read about the XPA-2 and XPA-1L for years. The XPA-2 seems like it would fit my bill although it is a beast. One of the descriptions that I have heard is that the xpa2 is a "fast" amplifier, meaning it responds quickly to transients in the music. For anyone who has heard both is the XPA-1l as quick as the XPA-2? Sonically are they close. 90% of the time this system is used for TV/movies. I was also considering the XPA-3 because I could see a day where I would add a center back into the mix.

So I guess the question is : is the XPA-1l better than the -2 in class AB mode? are they as fast to respond to transients? And if I decided to go XPA-3 would I be giving up much?

( sorry all this is how my brain works ).

[geebo]

Nov 8, 2014 7:33:26 GMT -5 brubacca said:

Well,

I finally have my stereo system sorted out. It is time get get a good amp for my HT (which is 2ch for now).

I have read about the XPA-2 and XPA-1L for years. The XPA-2 seems like it would fit my bill although it is a beast. One of the descriptions that I have heard is that the xpa2 is a "fast" amplifier, meaning it responds quickly to transients in the music. For anyone who has heard both is the XPA-1l as quick as the XPA-2? Sonically are they close. 90% of the time this system is used for TV/movies. I was also considering the XPA-3 because I could see a day where I would add a center back into the mix.

So I guess the question is : is the XPA-1l better than the -2 in class AB mode? are they as fast to respond to transients? And if I decided to go XPA-3 would I be giving up much?

( sorry all this is how my brain works ).

The XPA-1L is every bit as good as the XPA-2 in all aspects. I had the same concerns as you when I swapped out my XPA-2 for some 1Ls but I have no regrets now. Both outperform my XPA-5 which uses the same amp modules as the XPA-3. Not to say the 5 isn't a fine performer, I just think the others have greater impact.

[repeetavx]

From the XPA-1L thread:

Oct 27, 2014 7:33:08 GMT -5 boomzilla said:

In the past, I've been unable to hear any difference between the Class-A and Class-AB modes of the XPA-1L (gen. 1). Most recently, however, I've started to sense a subtle difference between the two. The Class-A mode seems to have a smoother, but more prominent midrange with just the slightest loss of treble extension. The Class-AB mode seems to have a slightly more dynamic midrange with more treble extension. To put it in "Emo-speak," the Class-A mode sounds more like my XPR-2 amplifier while the Class-AB mode sounds more like my beloved XPA-2.

Has anyone else noticed a difference in the two operating modes, or am i just hearing things?

From the XPA-5 as a stereo amp thread:

Nov 7, 2014 6:44:34 GMT -5 moko said:

the xpa-2 has 12 output devices per channel (total 24 in amp) compared to maybe 6 (iirc) per channel of xpa-5. afaik, with more output devices per channel in parallel configuration will produce lower output impedance. lower output impedance means greater damping factor or the ability to control speakers cone movements better. that's why some people called the xpa-2 a faster amp or more dynamic amp. ...

...you can also choose bigger (less AWG) and shorter speaker cables to increase the damping factor.

The XPA-3 does have 6 output devices per channel.


From the XPA-2 gen 2 vs. XPA-1L:

Sept 28, 2014 23:26:39 GMT -5 Dark Ranger said:

Just as a follow-up to my previous posts, I've received confirmation from Emotiva about my questions:

The XPA-2 Gen2 has 12 output devices per channel (just like Gen1)

The XPA-1L has 16 output devices per channel

[creimes]

IMO all the XPA amps sound very very similar, I have only really noticed a difference between the UPA and XPA amps, I felt the UPA amps more laid back and less dynamic than the XPA amps, and of course not night and day but for me it was there.

Chad

[garbulky]

The XPA-2 is a very fast amp. The XPA-1 L's also sound good. The XPA-2 appreciates an XSP-1 pre-amp or a USP-1 to bring out the speed though, otherwise the difference is negligible.

[knucklehead]

Anyone know where I can get a 'slow' amp? Its for slow music...

[garbulky]

Nov 8, 2014 11:34:40 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

Anyone know where I can get a 'slow' amp? Its for slow music...

Unfortunately, the XPA-2 does not work with slow music. It can't slow down enough!

[geebo]

Nov 8, 2014 11:34:40 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

Anyone know where I can get a 'slow' amp? Its for slow music...

I had an Onkyo that would fit the bill. It didn't know anything about transients.

[brubacca]

Nov 8, 2014 11:34:40 GMT -5 knucklehead said:

Anyone know where I can get a 'slow' amp? Its for slow music...[/

Seriously... I find the transients to be very different between my tube amp and my upa-200. To me it is most notable with snare drum hits. When the transients are fast enough it sounds like an actual real snare drum.

Thanks for the explanations and information.

[vcautokid]

The XPA-2 and XPA-5 are powerful Emotiva classics that keep on amazing everyone whom hears them. Theater, music. Covered and more! Had the XPA-2. A power house. Will drive about anything I could connect to it. Loved this amp. The XPA1L is about the awesome world of mono blocks, and their superior channel isolation only mono blocks offer. The XPA1L like all the Emotiva amps offer you all you could want, and much more.

[Poodleluvr]

Nov 8, 2014 10:37:44 GMT -5 repeetavx said:

From the XPA-1L thread:

Oct 27, 2014 7:33:08 GMT -5 boomzilla said:

In the past, I've been unable to hear any difference between the Class-A and Class-AB modes of the XPA-1L (gen. 1). Most recently, however, I've started to sense a subtle difference between the two. The Class-A mode seems to have a smoother, but more prominent midrange with just the slightest loss of treble extension. The Class-AB mode seems to have a slightly more dynamic midrange with more treble extension. To put it in "Emo-speak," the Class-A mode sounds more like my XPR-2 amplifier while the Class-AB mode sounds more like my beloved XPA-2.

Has anyone else noticed a difference in the two operating modes, or am i just hearing things?

From the XPA-5 as a stereo amp thread:

Nov 7, 2014 6:44:34 GMT -5 moko said:

the xpa-2 has 12 output devices per channel (total 24 in amp) compared to maybe 6 (iirc) per channel of xpa-5. afaik, with more output devices per channel in parallel configuration will produce lower output impedance. lower output impedance means greater damping factor or the ability to control speakers cone movements better. that's why some people called the xpa-2 a faster amp or more dynamic amp. ...

...you can also choose bigger (less AWG) and shorter speaker cables to increase the damping factor.

The XPA-3 does have 6 output devices per channel.


From the XPA-2 gen 2 vs. XPA-1L:

Sept 28, 2014 23:26:39 GMT -5 Dark Ranger said:

Just as a follow-up to my previous posts, I've received confirmation from Emotiva about my questions:

The XPA-2 Gen2 has 12 output devices per channel (just like Gen1)

The XPA-1L has 16 output devices per channel

This caught my eye. From my understanding of amplifier designs, I do not believe that comparing the XPA-2's 12 output devices to the XPA-1L's 16 output devices (per channel)is a fair comparison. The reason being, on a "fully" differential design like the XPA-1L with a total of 16 output devices, 8 output devices are used for the positive output stage while 8 output devices are used for the negative output stage, the signals, 180 degrees out of phase from each other.

If you take a look at the feature set Emotiva has listed for the XPR-1:

"•Fully balanced, fully discrete, quad Differential Reference™ circuit design."
"•Fully complimentary topology."
"•18 high performance 250 watt output devices, for a total of 36."

From my understanding of this, for the XPR-1 with 36 total output devices, 18 output devices are used for the positive output stage while 18 output devices are used for the negative output stage, the signals, 180 degrees out of phase from each other.

On a quad differential design(fully balanced) the electronic components are like doubled in quantity to mirror each other, except that one signal is non inverted while the complimentary signal is inverted, the signals 180 degrees out of phase from each other. In effect, the cost to do this design doubles.

In summation, the XPA-1L, XPA-1, and XPR-1 are quad differential (fully balanced) designs while the XPA-2 is a dual differential (single ended) design. As said, comparing the number of "total" output devices (per channel) from a quad differential design to a dual differential design, I don't believe is a fair comparison.


This is my personal understanding of this. BTW, Lonnie took the time to make this video, so he can explain this better than I can:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLCViA_2zwM

[Poodleluvr]

Sorry for the double post. Please remove.

[repeetavx]

Nov 13, 2014 9:55:00 GMT -5 Poodleluvr said:

This caught my eye. From my understanding of amplifier designs, I do not believe that comparing the XPA-2's 12 output devices to the XPA-1L's 16 output devices (per channel)is a fair comparison. The reason being, on a "fully" differential design like the XPA-1L with a total of 16 output devices, 8 output devices are used for the positive output stage while 8 output devices are used for the negative output stage, the signals, 180 degrees out of phase from each other.

If you take a look at the feature set Emotiva has listed for the XPR-1:

"•Fully balanced, fully discrete, quad Differential Reference™ circuit design."
"•Fully complimentary topology."
"•18 high performance 250 watt output devices, for a total of 36."

From my understanding of this, for the XPR-1 with 36 total output devices, 18 output devices are used for the positive output stage while 18 output devices are used for the negative output stage, the signals, 180 degrees out of phase from each other.

On a quad differential design(fully balanced) the electronic components are like doubled in quantity to mirror each other, except that one signal is non inverted while the complimentary signal is inverted, the signals 180 degrees out of phase from each other. In effect, the cost to do this design doubles.

In summation, the XPA-1L, XPA-1, and XPR-1 are quad differential (fully balanced) designs while the XPA-2 is a dual differential (single ended) design. As said, comparing the number of "total" output devices (per channel) from a quad differential design to a dual differential design, I don't believe is a fair comparison.

Yup, I knew this but for some reason I missed the full significance.

The XPA-2 will be just as fast as an XPA-1 but will have "some" more distortion. The XPA-1L won't be as fast of an amplifier as the XPA-2 but will have "some" less distortion. And the XPR-1 will be faster than both the XPA-1 and XPA-2 and will have less distortion than the XPA-2. Maybe, with the higher quality componants, even less than the XPA-1.

[rtg97229]

Is this a thread about slew rate or psychology?

[thepcguy]

So, if one amp is faster than the other, which amp would I use when playing 'Accross The Universe' by the Beatles?:

From Wikipedia....

On a standard-tuned guitar (EADGBE) the song is played in the key of D; however, the recording was slowed electronically, resulting in a lower C# tuning to the ear. The verse beginning "Words are flowing out" (I (D) chord) is notable for a prolonged vi (Bm)–iii (F#m) to ii7 (Em7) minor drop to the dominant chord V7 (A7) on "across the universe" in the 4th bar.[6] On the repeat of this chord sequence a turn following the ii7 (Em7) through a iv minor (Gm) brings the verse to a close before moving on directly to the tonic on the "Jai Guru Deva Om" refrain. The vi–ii minor drop leading to V had been used earlier in "I Will" (on "how long I've loved you") and George Harrison utilised a shorter vi–iii minor alternation to delay getting back to the dominant (V) in "I Need You".[6] The verse beginning "Words are flowing out like endless rain..." is also notable for the suitably breathless phrasing and almost constant 8th note rhythm (initially four D melody notes, then C#, B, A, B)[7]

[geebo]

Nov 24, 2014 14:58:16 GMT -5 thepcguy said:

So, if one amp is faster than the other, which amp would I use when playing 'Accross The Universe' by the Beatles?:

From Wikipedia....

On a standard-tuned guitar (EADGBE) the song is played in the key of D; however, the recording was slowed electronically, resulting in a lower C# tuning to the ear. The verse beginning "Words are flowing out" (I (D) chord) is notable for a prolonged vi (Bm)–iii (F#m) to ii7 (Em7) minor drop to the dominant chord V7 (A7) on "across the universe" in the 4th bar.[6] On the repeat of this chord sequence a turn following the ii7 (Em7) through a iv minor (Gm) brings the verse to a close before moving on directly to the tonic on the "Jai Guru Deva Om" refrain. The vi–ii minor drop leading to V had been used earlier in "I Will" (on "how long I've loved you") and George Harrison utilised a shorter vi–iii minor alternation to delay getting back to the dominant (V) in "I Need You".[6] The verse beginning "Words are flowing out like endless rain..." is also notable for the suitably breathless phrasing and almost constant 8th note rhythm (initially four D melody notes, then C#, B, A, B)[7]

33 or 45 rpm?

[moko]

Nov 24, 2014 14:00:07 GMT -5 rtg97229 said:

Is this a thread about slew rate or psychology?

i think it's about damping factor and psyco-accoustic.

[Gary Cook]

I have had an XPA-2 an XPA-3 and an XPA-5 and I honestly couldn't tell the difference in sound quality (or "speed") between them when playing stereo 2.1 music. Hardly surprising given their very similar design briefs and their power outputs into 8 ohms with 2 channels driven (respectively 300 WPC, 275 WPC and 250 WPC).

The power supplies are a good clue as to their "speed" potential for 2 channel use;
XPA-2 Power supply: 1,200VA toroidal transformer with 45,000uF low ESR storage capacitance
XPA-3 Power supply: 850 VA toroidal transformer with 60,000uF storage capacitance
XPA-5 Power supply: 1,200VA toroidal transformer with 60,000uF storage capacitance

I haven't tried one but they would have some serious grunt for 2.1;
XPA-7 Power supply 1,700VA toroidal transformer with 120,000uF storage capacitance


Cheers
Gary