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Post by jmnextime1 on Dec 28, 2014 11:32:12 GMT -5
Because of the holidays I haven't had an opportunity to do any critical listening with the Dirac filters in use. However, I did notice the huge lowering of output volume as most everyone else has noticed. To reach a previous volume level at -20db I now have to crank it to +10db or Max. From reading other posts I understand why this has happened. I am currently using a Sherbourn PA-7-150 amp which I prefer not replacing. So my question is: are there any recommended devices that can boost the output level to the amp to offset the volume loss created by the Dirac filters? Any other solutions?
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bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Dec 28, 2014 12:03:20 GMT -5
Besides the number change, are you saying you can't reach an acceptable listening level by just turning it up?
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Post by jmnextime1 on Dec 28, 2014 12:09:21 GMT -5
Yes. Sometimes I like to listen to music loud. Before -8db to -10db would be VERY loud. Post Dirac -8db is almost like background listening.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 28, 2014 12:20:43 GMT -5
I would re-run Dirac and if that doesn't help, call them tomorrow because this doesn't sound normal. There is a slight drop in overall volume boost on mine at teh same settings, but not much.
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Post by rogersch on Dec 28, 2014 12:55:52 GMT -5
in my case it is around 4 / 5 dB drop with DIRAC
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 28, 2014 14:24:55 GMT -5
It's just a numbers game guys, if it annoys you to have, say, -15 db on the display instead of -20 db then hop into the set up menu and add 5 db to the input source volumes. The display will now show -20 db for the same volume, problem solved.
Happy New Year
Gary
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Dec 28, 2014 14:30:09 GMT -5
What I'd like to know is...if after Dirac filter process, the volume is calibrated to be at THX reference at 0 dB. If so, it's ideal for me. If not, I hope it's some sort of standard calibration.
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Post by tunatamer on Dec 28, 2014 14:38:45 GMT -5
It's just a numbers game guys, if it annoys you to have, say, -15 db on the display instead of -20 db then hop into the set up menu and add 5 db to the input source volumes. The display will now show -20 db for the same volume, problem solved. Happy New Year Gary Wouldn't this be a valid solution only if Dirac is the only preset used? I would think if you changed to another preset you' have the boost where you don't want it. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 28, 2014 14:42:29 GMT -5
It's just a numbers game guys, if it annoys you to have, say, -15 db on the display instead of -20 db then hop into the set up menu and add 5 db to the input source volumes. The display will now show -20 db for the same volume, problem solved. Wouldn't this be a valid solution only if Dirac is the only preset used? I would think if you changed to another preset you' have the boost where you don't want it. For sure, but turning the master volume down to -25 db doesn't seem to have the same stigma as turning it up to -15 db. Happy New Year Gary |
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Post by tunatamer on Dec 28, 2014 14:50:37 GMT -5
Wouldn't this be a valid solution only if Dirac is the only preset used? I would think if you changed to another preset you' have the boost where you don't want it. For sure, but turning the master volume down to -25 db doesn't seem to have the same stigma as turning it up to -15 db. Happy New Year Gary Understood. I was thinking of possible speaker damage when switching to a "hot" preset. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 28, 2014 15:04:09 GMT -5
For sure, but turning the master volume down to -25 db doesn't seem to have the same stigma as turning it up to -15 db. Understood. I was thinking of possible speaker damage when switching to a "hot" preset. It would be the same issue if the master volume was turned up by 5 db. I often have over 10 db of difference between a 5.1 program from the cable box and a mono advertisement, need to be quick on the draw (of the remote). Happy New Year Gary |
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Post by aud on Dec 28, 2014 15:10:20 GMT -5
Understood. I was thinking of possible speaker damage when switching to a "hot" preset. It would be the same issue if the master volume was turned up by 5 db. I often have over 10 db of difference between a 5.1 program from the cable box and a mono advertisement, need to be quick on the draw (of the remote). Happy New Year Gary So true, Gary. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Dec 28, 2014 15:14:06 GMT -5
Hey guys! You are all off the track, the OP jmnextime1 talk about 30 dB of difference (from -20 dB to +10dB) , personally I think it's a lot, maybe more than it should be. One condition could explaining this particular case, your speakers setup is probably suffering of too much efficiency difference between them or not enough native freq response linearity or even worse a mix of both. |
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Dec 28, 2014 15:22:35 GMT -5
What I'd like to know is...if after Dirac filter process, the volume is calibrated to be at THX reference at 0 dB. If so, it's ideal for me. If not, I hope it's some sort of standard calibration. That's how my Denon worked. Without Dirac there is no way I can turn my XMC to "0", it is way too loud. My hope is that after dirac "0" becomes reference. |
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Post by aud on Dec 28, 2014 15:42:46 GMT -5
I would re-run Dirac and if that doesn't help, call them tomorrow because this doesn't sound normal. There is a slight drop in overall volume boost on mine at teh same settings, but not much. Have you had a chance to try rerunning Dirac? |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 28, 2014 15:44:46 GMT -5
I've had around 10 AVR's in my system over the years and I've never used anywhere near "0". THX "Reference Level" is supposedly an average SPL of 85 db, but using what efficiency speakers, in what room and with what amplifier gain? If I am using say 92 db efficiency speakers and reference calibration is based on say 89 db speakers, then I need - 3db on the volume to get 85 db SPL. If my room boosts common frequencies by say 3 db, then I now need - 6db to get 85 db SPL. Now if my amp has say a gain of 31 db and reference is based on 29 db gain I now need a volume of - 8 db. I'm still at reference volume of 85 db but my AVR volume is set to -8 db. I much prefer the UMC-200 volume display, none of this 0 = reference rubbish, it's just numbers,, Some material I listen to at 25 and some at 40, I don't really care as long as it sounds good. .
Happy New Year
Gary
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Post by barrak on Dec 28, 2014 16:09:55 GMT -5
Hey guys! You are all off the track, the OP jmnextime1 talk about 30 dB of difference (from -20 dB to +10dB) , personally I think it's a lot, maybe more than it should be. One condition could explaining this particular case, your speakers setup is probably suffering of too much efficiency difference between them or not enough native freq response linearity or even worse a mix of both. Or maybe there is a huge room mode that is deciding the maximum level allowed by Dirac measurements, say 20 dB above the rest of the spectrum. After Dirac tames that peak, 20 dB of headroom is lost. If this is the case, then taming that mode with bass traps or relocating the subs should precede Dirac room correction. It would help if the OP uploaded his measurements and listed his speakers/subs. |
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Dec 28, 2014 16:13:47 GMT -5
I've had around 10 AVR's in my system over the years and I've never used anywhere near "0". THX "Reference Level" is supposedly an average SPL of 85 db, but using what efficiency speakers, in what room and with what amplifier gain? If I am using say 92 db efficiency speakers and reference calibration is based on say 89 db speakers, then I need - 3db on the volume to get 85 db SPL. If my room boosts common frequencies by say 3 db, then I now need - 6db to get 85 db SPL. Now if my amp has say a gain of 31 db and reference is based on 29 db gain I now need a volume of - 8 db. I'm still at reference volume of 85 db but my AVR volume is set to -8 db. I much prefer the UMC-200 volume display, none of this 0 = reference rubbish, it's just numbers,, Some material I listen to at 25 and some at 40, I don't really care as long as it sounds good. . Happy New Year Gary I thought part of the point of calibration was to take all of these variables into account and adjust the system so that there was some consistency in setting reference level with different systems. Of course the main goal is correcting the sound, but standardizing volume settings seemed to be a part of the Denon/Audyssey setup as well. When I added my XPA-5 to my Denon and reran the setup, the db levels were the same at "0", it just sounded better. I like the idea of listening to music at the same volume level as they did when they produced it. maybe I'm way off base, but I sure won't be upset if Dirac requires me to turn it up more. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 28, 2014 17:00:50 GMT -5
I've had around 10 AVR's in my system over the years and I've never used anywhere near "0". THX "Reference Level" is supposedly an average SPL of 85 db, but using what efficiency speakers, in what room and with what amplifier gain? If I am using say 92 db efficiency speakers and reference calibration is based on say 89 db speakers, then I need - 3db on the volume to get 85 db SPL. If my room boosts common frequencies by say 3 db, then I now need - 6db to get 85 db SPL. Now if my amp has say a gain of 31 db and reference is based on 29 db gain I now need a volume of - 8 db. I'm still at reference volume of 85 db but my AVR volume is set to -8 db. I much prefer the UMC-200 volume display, none of this 0 = reference rubbish, it's just numbers,, Some material I listen to at 25 and some at 40, I don't really care as long as it sounds good. I thought part of the point of calibration was to take all of these variables into account and adjust the system so that there was some consistency in setting reference level with different systems. Of course the main goal is correcting the sound, but standardizing volume settings seemed to be a part of the Denon/Audyssey setup as well. When I added my XPA-5 to my Denon and reran the setup, the db levels were the same at "0", it just sounded better. I like the idea of listening to music at the same volume level as they did when they produced it. maybe I'm way off base, but I sure won't be upset if Dirac requires me to turn it up more. That's the THX Reference Level theory, "listening to music at the same volume level as they did when they produced it", but they (sound engineers, mixers etc) don't always follow the rules. My experience has been that for music they very rarely do. As well the THX standards were only used from 1983, so anything recorded/mixed/engineered before then almost certainly won't be at THX reference level. The THX standards also were promulgated (by Lucasfilm, Return of the Jedi if I remember rightly) for movies, movie theatres specifically, not music. When I was setting up live concert audio, back in the day, I sure as hell didn't aim for 85 db SPL throughout the venue. I haven't heard anything since that contradicts that, so "reference level" most likely has no relationship to duplicating a live performance either. Happy New Year Gary |
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Post by socketman on Dec 28, 2014 17:03:36 GMT -5
To me,it would seem that Dirac is doing what is designed to do. Untreated highly reflective rooms with few furnishings will sound louder due to multiple reflections as will odd shaped rooms. When Dirac attempts to take care of this and has to take drastic measures the result is a lower overall output and perceived sound. Even the best software cant fix a crappy room, the Emo manual suggests room treatments be done before using Dirac.
Richard
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