Post by sidvicious on Jan 2, 2015 12:46:03 GMT -5
Turntable upgrade VPI HW-19 Mark IV
I have not posted in a long time, busy with work and personal life. I upgraded my turntable, a Music Hall 9.1 in 2014. Here is my history, went from Dual CS-5000-never really liked this table, to Project Debut III- I had pitch and speed problems even with outboard line conditioner, to a Project Expression III-still pitch and speed problems with same outboard line conditioner from time to time, to a Rega P3-24, which I modified with a Groove Tracer sub platter and platter and tone arm height adjuster, to a Music Hall 9.1 with Erotica LX cartridge, and in between a Sansui SR-929 and a Technics -1200 (these two direct drive turntables, I still own) to my final for now VPI HW-19 Mark VI with line conditioner and Sama motor, SME 309 tone arm and Van den Hul Frog Gold cartridge. I have in the past thought about VPI, I wanted a Classic 1-3, but I had stopped thinking about it due to recent price rises.
Some might ask why so many turntables, well after the Dual I was bitten by the vinyl bug and wanted the type of sound that I only heard in high-end stores. The Project Expression III was a nice jump up, sounding more like vinyl should with my Denon 301. When I moved to a Rega P3-24, I was like damn, this is nice, but after I added the Groove tracer upgrades, I got all of what the Rega had with more in the bass department with out losing the Prat (Pace, rhythm and timing) but I had pitch problems/speed problems even with the separate conditioner from time to time.
There was something missing after listening to a SME 20.2. I bought the Sansui SR-929 before the Music hall and the Technics 1200 after the Music hall. The speed of direct drive in both the Sansui and Technics was spot on and the Technics was bought primarily as nostalgia to my DJ Days and then the upgrade to the Music Hall 9.1. ( Put a good cartridge on the Sansui and Technics and they perform very well don't let anyone fool you, the Sansui is more like a collectors item for me). I went back and forth between the Sansui and Technics because of the bass with the Music Hall 9.1 and decided to keep the Music Hall in because the sound was more accurate. As much as I liked the Music Hall something was missing, I would notice speed variation on some albums and cleaning a album with the brush I would see the slow down-no big problem as far as the cleaning as it was expected even with outboard motor.
With the Music Hall when I would lift up the arm it would pull up and to the outside of the album slightly which annoyed the hell out of me. The pitch for me was problematic because for some reason my ears are very sensitive to this. All tables at this point were traded in except the Sansui and Technics. I went to my local shop and listened to a SME 20.2 and a Linn lp-12. My jaw was on the *bleep* floor!!! I said to myself this is what I had been looking for. The Linn belong to another customer getting an arm and cartridge upgrade and the SME 20.2 belonged to the store.
Five months before this I blew the chance to get a Linn Lp-12 and I hesitated because of the suspension alignment problems that I had heard about. Well the SME 20.2 came up for sale right after Richard Vandersteen came to their store for a demo party with questions and answers and a trip to the local bar. The SME 20.2 at $7000, which was a pricing mistake should have been at $9000 which they would have given to me (spotted mistake on internet, which they corrected after 3 weeks). Let's just say I would have been looking for a new wife and place to stay if I had gotten that table!!! Well one day I went into this store Ultra Fidelis, Wauwatosa, WI and they had a VPI HW-19 Mark IV sitting on display. I asked about it after picking up my Audio Research VT-100 MKIII and I was told that the table belonged to a customer and they were adding a Van den Hul Frog Gold to the table and that they had done the upgrade for the customer to the SME-309 tone arm.
Several weeks past by and the SME 20.2 was sold and the same customer of the VPI had traded it in toward the SME 20.2. I waited a couple of months and made an offer with the trade of my Music Hall 9.1, which was excepted upon them checking out the Music Hall. I picked the VPI up on a Friday to demo and I was first blown away by the weight, 50 pounds. I asked if this table was better than my Music Hall and I was told that the SME-309 tone arm brand new cost more than the Music Hall's whole table. I was told that I would get about 75% of what the SME 20.2 turntable offered for 1 third the price. I was told I brought it home plugged it in first without the line conditioner and I wasn't blown away but thought it sounded okay. I plugged in the line conditioner and was blown away.
I listen to vinyl all that night after 9 pm to 3 am and woke up at 7 am and listened the whole day. The first thing I noticed was the PRAT was there and the speed was spot on. No more pitch problems and speed variations. The tone arm was great, when I lifted it, it lifted straight up and didn't move to the right or left. The Van den Hul Frog Gold cartridge was a god send very neutral and more of a cartridge if bought brand new than I would have ever paid. Well the trade was made which brought the VPI down considerably and I got the Sama motor (which I haven't used yet). This is by far the best turntable I have ever owned and I don't regret the time it took me to get here. The arm is outstanding, along with the suspended chassis and no I wouldn't put the Technics or Sansui in it's place in my main system, it's that good. When I use a dust brush as the record spins the motor doesn't slow down, much like the Technics and Sansui.
This table is quiet and keeps the vinyl very quiet. I now know what a black back ground is if the vinyl itself is good. I can keep the lid on or take the lid off of the table and turn it up very loud without any feed back, which was a no, no with the Music Hall. I now know how important a good tone arm is in keeping things quiet. Vibration and noise is a thing of the past, this table is that good.
Things I'm going to upgrade, maybe get the SDS controller because it has 45 rpm capability. This is a table you could put in a Audio Show and not be embarrassed. This is a vintage table, but great, with exchangeable arm capability and I was told that it get only better when I put the Sama motor on, which is similar to the VPI Classic series motors. If I upgraded again, it would be to a VPI Classic 3. I know now what vinyl is capable of and even though it took a while to get there, I now can appreciate it because of all of the things I experienced between. So if your question is, which table is better this or the SME 20.2, the SME 20.2 has a better motor and was even quieter than mine, but the last customer did all of the upgrades saving me time and money along with my trade so for now I'm happy, maybe one day, but not today. If the question is do you get better performance the more you spend, the answer is yes, but only you can decide if that performance is worth the price for right now the answer for me is no, but in a year or two if I could get a better deal on a SME 20.2 or 30 series hell yes I would, they are that good!!!
I have not posted in a long time, busy with work and personal life. I upgraded my turntable, a Music Hall 9.1 in 2014. Here is my history, went from Dual CS-5000-never really liked this table, to Project Debut III- I had pitch and speed problems even with outboard line conditioner, to a Project Expression III-still pitch and speed problems with same outboard line conditioner from time to time, to a Rega P3-24, which I modified with a Groove Tracer sub platter and platter and tone arm height adjuster, to a Music Hall 9.1 with Erotica LX cartridge, and in between a Sansui SR-929 and a Technics -1200 (these two direct drive turntables, I still own) to my final for now VPI HW-19 Mark VI with line conditioner and Sama motor, SME 309 tone arm and Van den Hul Frog Gold cartridge. I have in the past thought about VPI, I wanted a Classic 1-3, but I had stopped thinking about it due to recent price rises.
Some might ask why so many turntables, well after the Dual I was bitten by the vinyl bug and wanted the type of sound that I only heard in high-end stores. The Project Expression III was a nice jump up, sounding more like vinyl should with my Denon 301. When I moved to a Rega P3-24, I was like damn, this is nice, but after I added the Groove tracer upgrades, I got all of what the Rega had with more in the bass department with out losing the Prat (Pace, rhythm and timing) but I had pitch problems/speed problems even with the separate conditioner from time to time.
There was something missing after listening to a SME 20.2. I bought the Sansui SR-929 before the Music hall and the Technics 1200 after the Music hall. The speed of direct drive in both the Sansui and Technics was spot on and the Technics was bought primarily as nostalgia to my DJ Days and then the upgrade to the Music Hall 9.1. ( Put a good cartridge on the Sansui and Technics and they perform very well don't let anyone fool you, the Sansui is more like a collectors item for me). I went back and forth between the Sansui and Technics because of the bass with the Music Hall 9.1 and decided to keep the Music Hall in because the sound was more accurate. As much as I liked the Music Hall something was missing, I would notice speed variation on some albums and cleaning a album with the brush I would see the slow down-no big problem as far as the cleaning as it was expected even with outboard motor.
With the Music Hall when I would lift up the arm it would pull up and to the outside of the album slightly which annoyed the hell out of me. The pitch for me was problematic because for some reason my ears are very sensitive to this. All tables at this point were traded in except the Sansui and Technics. I went to my local shop and listened to a SME 20.2 and a Linn lp-12. My jaw was on the *bleep* floor!!! I said to myself this is what I had been looking for. The Linn belong to another customer getting an arm and cartridge upgrade and the SME 20.2 belonged to the store.
Five months before this I blew the chance to get a Linn Lp-12 and I hesitated because of the suspension alignment problems that I had heard about. Well the SME 20.2 came up for sale right after Richard Vandersteen came to their store for a demo party with questions and answers and a trip to the local bar. The SME 20.2 at $7000, which was a pricing mistake should have been at $9000 which they would have given to me (spotted mistake on internet, which they corrected after 3 weeks). Let's just say I would have been looking for a new wife and place to stay if I had gotten that table!!! Well one day I went into this store Ultra Fidelis, Wauwatosa, WI and they had a VPI HW-19 Mark IV sitting on display. I asked about it after picking up my Audio Research VT-100 MKIII and I was told that the table belonged to a customer and they were adding a Van den Hul Frog Gold to the table and that they had done the upgrade for the customer to the SME-309 tone arm.
Several weeks past by and the SME 20.2 was sold and the same customer of the VPI had traded it in toward the SME 20.2. I waited a couple of months and made an offer with the trade of my Music Hall 9.1, which was excepted upon them checking out the Music Hall. I picked the VPI up on a Friday to demo and I was first blown away by the weight, 50 pounds. I asked if this table was better than my Music Hall and I was told that the SME-309 tone arm brand new cost more than the Music Hall's whole table. I was told that I would get about 75% of what the SME 20.2 turntable offered for 1 third the price. I was told I brought it home plugged it in first without the line conditioner and I wasn't blown away but thought it sounded okay. I plugged in the line conditioner and was blown away.
I listen to vinyl all that night after 9 pm to 3 am and woke up at 7 am and listened the whole day. The first thing I noticed was the PRAT was there and the speed was spot on. No more pitch problems and speed variations. The tone arm was great, when I lifted it, it lifted straight up and didn't move to the right or left. The Van den Hul Frog Gold cartridge was a god send very neutral and more of a cartridge if bought brand new than I would have ever paid. Well the trade was made which brought the VPI down considerably and I got the Sama motor (which I haven't used yet). This is by far the best turntable I have ever owned and I don't regret the time it took me to get here. The arm is outstanding, along with the suspended chassis and no I wouldn't put the Technics or Sansui in it's place in my main system, it's that good. When I use a dust brush as the record spins the motor doesn't slow down, much like the Technics and Sansui.
This table is quiet and keeps the vinyl very quiet. I now know what a black back ground is if the vinyl itself is good. I can keep the lid on or take the lid off of the table and turn it up very loud without any feed back, which was a no, no with the Music Hall. I now know how important a good tone arm is in keeping things quiet. Vibration and noise is a thing of the past, this table is that good.
Things I'm going to upgrade, maybe get the SDS controller because it has 45 rpm capability. This is a table you could put in a Audio Show and not be embarrassed. This is a vintage table, but great, with exchangeable arm capability and I was told that it get only better when I put the Sama motor on, which is similar to the VPI Classic series motors. If I upgraded again, it would be to a VPI Classic 3. I know now what vinyl is capable of and even though it took a while to get there, I now can appreciate it because of all of the things I experienced between. So if your question is, which table is better this or the SME 20.2, the SME 20.2 has a better motor and was even quieter than mine, but the last customer did all of the upgrades saving me time and money along with my trade so for now I'm happy, maybe one day, but not today. If the question is do you get better performance the more you spend, the answer is yes, but only you can decide if that performance is worth the price for right now the answer for me is no, but in a year or two if I could get a better deal on a SME 20.2 or 30 series hell yes I would, they are that good!!!
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