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Post by fbczar on Apr 26, 2015 9:03:25 GMT -5
Ok then, how are DSD downloads normally played if not from a computer? You do download them to a hard drive, right? Where do you go from there? Thanks. Let me ask again, does your PC audio card say it supports DSD playback? It is not a PC, it is an IMac. I do not see anything in the Midi control that indicates DSD capability one way or the other. However, Audirvana shows that it is reading/playing a DSD64 file, but it also shows the output the XMC-1 DAC is receiving is PCM 176/24, which is what the XMC-1 display shows.
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Post by XTC on Apr 26, 2015 11:13:48 GMT -5
At the risk of repeating myself, stop torturing yourself trying to find a solution! A computer (PC or Mac) currently CANNOT output a pure DSD stream over HDMI. It doesn't matter that the XMC-1 accepts DSD over HDMI (You can use a SACD player like the Oppo to utilise that feature with SACD or DSD files) There is no technical reason that it can't but it simply is not implemented. It would require the graphics system drivers to enable it. All HDMI audio is tagged onto an HDMI video feed. It would need Intel to enable the feature in their HD Audio drivers if you are using an embedded Intel graphics solution or NVidia / AMD to write it into their HD Audio Drivers if you use one of their graphics solutions with it's attached HDMI/Display port out. Given that many NVidia graphics systems don't even enable 88.2 and 176.4 kHz frequencies, it seems unlikely they will simply include DSD. The best hope is for Emotiva to have a change of heart and find some way of allowing the XMC-1 to accept DSD over PCM (DOP) which a computer can output as a pure DSD stream carried over a 24/192 PCM stream and wrapped / unwrapped at each end. Ok then, how are DSD downloads normally played if not from a computer? You do download them to a hard drive, right? Where do you go from there? Thanks. Via USB. I have not heard of a HDMI solution for playing native DSD files from a computer. If someone knows a way I'd love to hear it. The XMC-1 will not play DSD via USB so your only choice is to convert it to PCM or I use USB to an Oppo 105 and balanced into the XMC-1. Even using HDMI out the the Oppo will not play native DSD going from the computer via USB to the Oppo then to the XMC-1 via HDMI. I use JRiver not Audivarna, but a search of the Audivarna manual shows 7 references to USB and 0 for HDMI.
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Post by markc on Apr 26, 2015 12:21:06 GMT -5
HDMI output from a PC or mac is a feature of the video chipset and nothing whatsoever to do with the audio capability of the computer otherwise. The capability to transmit ANYTHING over HDMI has to be hardwired into the video chipset AND the operating system's drivers need to be written to allow the video chipset to tag the DSD onto a video signal for HDMI transmission.
You CANNOT currently output a pure DSD stream from a home computer (PC or Mac) over HDMI as there are no drivers to allow you to do this. You therefore cannot currently get multichannel DSD direct out of a computer via HDMI and probably not USB. You can however get Stereo DSD over a USB cable IF the processor will accept DSD over USB. The XMC-1 does not, at this time and may never do so.
You can PLAY a DSD file on a computer and listen to it - this usually uses the CPU to software decode to PCM which it passes to your audio chip for conversion to analogue. If by some super special audio card you have, the DAC there might accept DSD direct to analogue then you could get DSD "direct" to analogue (I am not aware of a computer add on sound card that will do this, however)
Personally, I have an Oppo 105 with a 3TB Seagate USB hard drive which contains all my audio files, including backup archival .dff rips of my SACD (done by my PS3). The Oppo has a clunky interface for browsing the disc but will play DSD "direct" to analogue with no PCM intermediary from which I output with the 7.1 RCA outputs and play direct with no processing.
Sitting at my desk with my home PC, I use JRiver which software transcodes to 44.1kHz 24 bit PCM which my embedded realtek sound chip will convert to analogue (It only does 44.1, 48, 96 and 192kHz and sadly not 88.2 or 176.4 which would be more purist for DSD down converting). I have plans to build a Home Theatre PC with JRiver and will use the Pentium Core CPU's embedded Intel HD Graphics to output audio over HDMI and this WILL allow 192, 176.4, 96, 88.2, 48 and 44.1kHz. Jriver will then be set to downconvert DSD to 24/176.4 over HDMI to the XMC-1 to play back direct, without any processing OR, if I choose to use Dirac on DSD files too, I will downconvert to 24/28kHz which is the native bit depth/frequency of Dirac processing.
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Post by fbczar on Apr 26, 2015 23:05:49 GMT -5
I'll say it once more.
HDMI output from a PC or mac is a feature of the video chipset and nothing whatsoever to do with the audio capability of the computer otherwise. The capability to transmit ANYTHING over HDMI has to be hardwired into the video chipset AND the operating system's drivers need to be written to allow the video chipset to tag the DSD onto a video signal for HDMI transmission.
You CANNOT currently output a pure DSD stream from a home computer (PC or Mac) over HDMI as there are no drivers to allow you to do this. You therefore cannot currently get multichannel DSD direct out of a computer via HDMI and probably not USB. You can however get Stereo DSD over a USB cable IF the processor will accept DSD over USB. The XMC-1 does not, at this time and may never do so.
You can PLAY a DSD file on a computer and listen to it - this usually uses the CPU to software decode to PCM which it passes to your audio chip for conversion to analogue. If by some super special audio card you have, the DAC there might accept DSD direct to analogue then you could get DSD "direct" to analogue (I am not aware of a computer add on sound card that will do this, however)
Personally, I have an Oppo 105 with a 3TB Seagate USB hard drive which contains all my audio files, including backup archival .dff rips of my SACD (done by my PS3). The Oppo has a clunky interface for browsing the disc but will play DSD "direct" to analogue with no PCM intermediary from which I output with the 7.1 RCA outputs and play direct with no processing.
Sitting at my desk with my home PC, I use JRiver which software transcodes to 44.1kHz 24 bit PCM which my embedded realtek sound chip will convert to analogue (It only does 44.1, 48, 96 and 192kHz and sadly not 88.2 or 176.4 which would be more purist for DSD down converting). I have plans to build a Home Theatre PC with JRiver and will use the Pentium Core CPU's embedded Intel HD Graphics to output audio over HDMI and this WILL allow 192, 176.4, 96, 88.2, 48 and 44.1kHz. Jriver will then be set to downconvert DSD to 24/176.4 over HDMI to the XMC-1 to play back direct, without any processing OR, if I choose to use Dirac on DSD files too, I will downconvert to 24/28kHz which is the native bit depth/frequency of Dirac processing. Thanks for the in depth reply. As you know, I use Audirvana and it apparently is capable of down converting DSD to 176.4 which sounds great so all is not lost. I have an Oppo 93, which cannot play DSD from a hard drive or flash drive, like the 105 and 103 can, but I really enjoy SACD's so the old Oppo works well for me. I thought Dirac down converted to 24/48kHz. I almost bought an Oppo 105D instead of the XMC-1. Now I guess I will wait for Oppo to produce a 4k capable player and pick one up so I can play DSD. Thanks for all your input. I appreciate the info.
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Post by doc1963 on Apr 27, 2015 0:19:53 GMT -5
I have plans to build a Home Theatre PC with JRiver and will use the Pentium Core CPU's embedded Intel HD Graphics to output audio over HDMI and this WILL allow 192, 176.4, 96, 88.2, 48 and 44.1kHz. Jriver will then be set to downconvert DSD to 24/176.4 over HDMI to the XMC-1 to play back direct, without any processing OR, if I choose to use Dirac on DSD files too, I will downconvert to 24/28kHz which is the native bit depth/frequency of Dirac processing. Thanks for the in depth reply. As you know, I use Audirvana and it apparently is capable of down converting DSD to 176.4 which sounds great so all is not lost. I have an Oppo 93, which cannot play DSD from a hard drive or flash drive, like the 105 and 103 can, but I really enjoy SACD's so the old Oppo works well for me. I thought Dirac down converted to 24/48kHz. I almost bought an Oppo 105D instead of the XMC-1. Now I guess I will wait for Oppo to produce a 4k capable player and pick one up so I can play DSD. Thanks for all your input. I appreciate the info. The native operating parameters of the Dirac implementation in the XMC-1 is 24bit/48k. I believe that was simply a typo in markc's response. However, Dirac is not applied to DSD streams and would be decoded in the native Reference DSD mode. IMO, there's far too much "over-thinking" wasted over the whole PCM vs DSD debate. If a recording isn't either DSD > DSD or, in the case of "vintage" recordings, Analog > DSD from beginning (recording/editing/mixing) to end (mastering), then it's all a moot point. Again, that's "my" opinion. Audirvana is an extremely nice Mac based player which utilizes iZotope algorithms for all up/down resampling. I agree that it's ideal to perform as few data conversions as possible and, since Audirvana does an excellent job at this, it only makes sense to do it here... at the beginning. I still own a copy of Audirvana, but find JRiver's feature set a bit more suited for my needs in my system. Nonetheless, I'm still a big fan of Audirvana and, if I were still using it, this is how I would have it set up. What I would suggest to you is to do yourself a favor and set Audirvana to convert DSD to either 88.2k or 176.4k PCM. Integer Mode will automatically detect that the XMC-1 prefers 24 bit resolution and pad accordingly. Now, play a file using that configuration to one of the "manual" (non-Dirac) presets (Preset 1 or Preset 2… whichever you have properly set up) and note how it sounds to you. Next, set Audirvana to convert DSD to 48k and play the same track(s) using your properly set up Dirac preset. Now, note how that sounds to you. Then establish which benefits you the most. I will admit (and I think most of us will agree) that "I" cannot distinguish a difference between a good quality DSD file either decoded as "direct DSD" or transcoded to 24/176.4 (or even 88.2k) PCM. Maybe my system's not good enough to resolve whatever subtle difference there may be (although I think I have a pretty decent system) or my ears are too old, but I've chased the DSD unicorn to the point where I'll just be honest about it and relinquish myself to the fact that that I hear no difference. So, my point is that it's better to simply choose what works best and sounds best to "you". Straight DSD (with no possibility of room correction), or DSD via linear PCM transcoding using "top shelf" software algorithms with the added benefit of world-class room correction? The best thing about it is you do have viable options…..
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