Can Audio Really Be This Good!!!!

[sidvicious]

Hello Everyone it has been a while since I have posted, but, I'm enjoying Emotiva in my basement for home theater and in my upstairs in my audio two channel only room, I've had some pieces come in that have changed my prospective on audio. For those who don't know, big Dan does know I'm a tube guy and winner of the XMC-1 in Chicago and love it. I have an older Audio Research Vt 100 MkIII and had a Rogue ninety-nine. I have wanted either a Audio Research LS-26, LS-27 or a LS-17se. I had a chance to buy a LS-27 two weeks ago from a local guy, but based on the conversation I went another direction. I talked to a dealer in out of state and about a LS-26 and another dealer about a LS-17se that he was getting in from a customer that wanted to upgrade. I went to an Audio Shop by my local dealer who sponsored a local event where he had a LS-17se, and I believe a DS-450 solid state with a pair of Sonus Faber Olympia III, with a Project 10.1, to say the least I was floored, jaw on the ground, All albums no CD's at a local bar in another room. This made me look at the LS-17se in a different light. I actually wanted one, why not cheaper than a LS-26 or LS-27.

Change the page to one month ago, I went on Audiogon and saw a LS-17se for an unreal price and after several conversations with the buyer, while trying to get a better deal from the local seller of the LS-27, which went no where, I took a chance of a life time and went with the LS-17se, I have been a member for years, buy never bought or sold anything there. The seller was excellent, he was like a school teacher, a mother constantly reminding you to tie your shoes, not really, but his communication skills where great and the product arrived just like he described and in a timely manner like he described. He reminded me a tube guy, to put the tubes into the pre-amp before use, priceless. Well fast forward until today, I currently have the Audio Research Vt-100 MKIII, which is an excellent amp, LS-17se, but something was missing, the last 10 percent, don't shoot me guys, the cables. I don't want to turn this into a cable debate.

I have Vandersteen 2CE Signature 2's with a Vandersteen 2WQ sub with Vandersteen 5-hp crossovers and a VPI HW-19 MK-4 with SME-309 tone arm with Audioquest Cougar tonearm cable. Well with all of this audio goodness in the two channel room I should be satisfied right, well no, I wasn't. I audition the Audioquest 1 meter sky-RCA and 1 meter Colorado along with, wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, a Audio Research CD-8!!! When I got the CD-8 home, I wasn't expecting much, I have the Cambridge CD-350 and the Denon 1611UD-SACD player, right!!! I used Colorado cables to hook up the CD-8 and I sat there with my jaw on the floor. The CD-8 is the finest CD player, I have ever heard folks!!! The CD-8 get every thing right and I'm busting through my over 5000 CDs to play CD after CD and they don't sound good they sound fantastic. The most complex passages that never quite drew me in are drawing me in. I want to listen to CD's again.

And yes I'm listening to Audioquest sky between my turntable and preamp, which is a Musical Surroundings Phonomenia (Battery Operated and AC) and I can now lower the volume and the detail is great. I have the CD player volume lowered to less than half way with Columbia XLR cables, can it be this good regardless of what I play it sounds great through CD's, I'm actually listening to CD's again and not albums, what gives. I have put in several cables in my system from Audioquest to handmade. My current configuration is using the Vandersteen 5hp Cross-overs Balance (SKY-pigtails going into Colorado XLR) into the preamp and Colorado XLR going into the CD-8. I didn't know audio could sound this good, the treble has air around the instruments and bass is tight. The dealer is willing to give me a good deal on the CD-8 and it's hard to think about pulling this out of my system, it is the best CD player, that I've ever heard. Do cables matter, yes but only to a small extent, you must get the electronics right first, the cabling is the last 10 percent, also I'm using Audioquest Castle Rocks Speaker Cables which I'm auditioning from Audioquest Cv-8. With the Audioquest Sky, I'm able to lower the volume on pre-amp when listening to phono and get great level of detail, before I had a hand made pair by another dealer of silver cables, which reduce noise but didn't sound this good. My problem, CD's are as exciting as Vinyl now and I don't want to go to sleep twenty-five cd's and I'm stil going and no LP's played yet, what is going on here!!! The Dealer told me, you want Audioquest Aspen Speaker Cable, try them, you want Audioquest Meteors, Speaker Cables take them, the dealer said I will bring in another set of Audioquest Sky's next week RCA for you to try, I've bought one set of Audioquest Colorado today and my Rogue Audio Ninety-Nine is in on trade today. Build relationships with local dealers as well, I'm sitting on a mint Nakamichi Dragon, which functions perfectly. I want a Ref 5 SE with a Ref 75, but this would cost me and I would be single, I'll have to settle for the LS-17SE, a baby Ref 3. It's an awesome day to be an Audiophile!!!

[highfihoney]

Im a high end & tube guy myself so i have to ask bychance which Dragon your sitting on , is it the Dragon CD DAC combo in 120 volt by chance ? if so & your willing to part with both peices im a very serious buyer with over 200 deals on audiogon as a seller & atleast 100 deals as a buyer , i flip alot of high end gear & collect as well , especially vintage top of the line pieces & have been looking for a mint Nak Dragon cd dac combo to replace the models i so ignorantly let out of our collection on a demo to a dealer then got sweet talked into selling him , if you have the combo & are selling im as serious as it ever gets .

[sidvicious]

Hey Hifihoney, the Nakamichi Dragon that I'm sitting on is the Tape Deck, in near mint condition.

[garbulky]

Your enthusiasm is infectious. I am personally skeptical at the difference of cables as I haven't heard any massively significant difference except for when the guage thickens and even then it is very small. However I agree that the resolving capabilities of the entire system as a whole matters when we talk about small changes. So if wires bring a difference it would have to be noticeable at a point when the system's reproduction is really up there as you mentioned. Maybe someday I will hear a difference but till then I remain skeptical. However your passion for audio is infectious! Keep it coming

[yves]

The Musical Surroundings Nova Phenomena is definitely the best that I have heard in affordable solid state phono stages, and IMO it is kind of like the solid state counterpart of the Eastern Electric MiniMax phono stage. If I had your turntable setup, then next on my list of planned upgrades would be to replace the SME 309 arm with a Trans-Fi Audio Terminator T3Pro because (again IMO) the difference is several times bigger than the 10 percent (or 5) that you may get from trying different cables.

[sidvicious]

Thanks for the suggestion yves, I'll research the arm, I had also thought of a SME V, but the prices has to be really right. As far as cables, I was even more skeptical than both of you and used cheap RadioShack cables, 12 gauge, which I still own, along with RadioShack and the older Acoustic Research cables and yes I've tried Monster Cable (I never bought it at full retail, always clearance prices). I'm not going to say buy expensive cables for a cheap stereo either, but most people hear the same thing that all cables sound alike and that's because in most cases, most people don't have an opportunity to try different cables with outlaying money up front. This is why I say build a relationship with local dealers (As well as Emotiva) and they will allow you to try different equipment out.

The Audioquest Sky, which I haven't bought yet, is greatly reduced (I don't pay retail prices for nothing and I have eight hobbies) from regular prices/internet prices and the Audioquest Colorado, one pair of XLR's which I have bought at vastly reduced price and one pair I'm considering has been great. I have switched speaker cables Audioquest CV-8 and Audioquest Castlerock in and out of my system and kept the volume levels the same with all the cable swaps and you can hear the difference (Cleaner highs and deeper bass at the same volume level with the biggest one being the phono (where the Sky is at). The original cable that comes with the SME-309 tonearm is garbage the highs sound veiled and if I switched them in front (Audioquest Cougar) of anyone here you would know right away. Why Audioquest cables, you might ask, that is primarily what my local dealer sales and as long as I get prices below the lowest internet website on clearance, who am I to complain.

The Audioquest Sky difference was also heard and was clearer and sounded louder at the same volume level I had some other Silver cables (Custom Made) that didn't cost much and both were equally quiet and sounded great, but the SKy is clearer, bass is deeper and treble is more extended and louder at the same volume level and volume measured with a SPL meter. I would tell you, I spent hours doing this and I'm still A/B cables, now with the Audio Research CD8, which is also on loan to test-which I'm considering buying because again the price is severly reduced, less than what you could get a used CD5 or CD7 for. Most people Don't believe there is a difference in CD players, but there is, I've tried it against the Denon 1611UD and Cambridge Audio CD350 and it's no contest the CD8 wins (Tighter bass extended treble with total Air around the instruments. Don't buy cables (Put lipstick on a Pig) if you have other areas in your system that are a problem, you will be disappointed and remember Room Acoustic is half of the equation, which I have tamed. I'm not telling anyone that cables make the system, but they can help enhance it. Take no one else's word try this for yourself you will be surprised and thanks for the comments guys.

[highfihoney]

I dont want to get too deep into the cable deal but i prefer to see people spend their money on gear & speakers where 99.99999 % of what we hear comes from .

Im not of the mind that properly gauged , manufactured & expertly terminated cables show any difference in sound or performance of the gear , i have a relationship with a Mcintosh premire dealer where i automatically buy ALL his trade in gear no matter the brand for exactly what he gave the customer in trade in value , i audition the gear then put 90% of it on Audiogon & Ebay to flip , you'd be suprised at how many people leave $800 power cords connected to amps & super expensive interconnects in the box with their source , all free to me & all flipped for profit for the most part .

Anyhow i set up a system with extremely revealing line arrays for the purpose of instantanious cable comparisons , its late & im getting ready for bed so i'll put a pic up tomorrow , ive posted the system at Audioholics under the same username a few yrs back as well so you can be sure its all my gear .

What i did was to set up a rig with ample amplification having excellent specs of importance like damping factor , tripple digit point low THD , huge headroom ect , i then selected 2 identical model # sources ( cdp ) & hooked them to the pre on cd 1 & 2 with different cables on each player , i'd throw in 2 identical copies of the most sonically perfect album ever made to my knowledge ( Frank Zappa Jazz from Hell ) which is very demanding modern classical performed via the Synclavier , this means every note on every instrument was pitch perfect , correct time & tone ect , then i'd hit play on both sources at the same time & switch back & forth .

I ran more than 2 dozen combinations of different interconnects thru the players doing instantanious A/B switching & was dumbfounded to notice any real differences unless i had a $10 pair of junk Radio Shack Gold cables in the loop or junk Monster cables from best buy , all quality cables not only sounded the same to my ears but to be sure i mic'ed the room from one of our DBX eq/analyzers & could watch the entire audio spectrum of 20 bands durring source switching , the DBX units were the best audiophile eq/analyzer ever made & have lots of room correction modes as well as peak hold , durring source switching the dbx only registered any difference with the Radio Shack $10 cables .

Seeing those were the only cables were a mic'ed set of sources were being measured i riped into the cable to see the worst welded termination i ever saw , either a 10 yr old soldiered the termination or a drunk because it was globs of soldier at random points .

I'll post pics of the rig we set up to challenge Roger Russells white paper on speaker wires & interconnects & give names of exact cables used , with me i dont fit the not enough expendable cash to try different cables scenarios as we own 3 legal med marijuana dispensaries & cash really isnt too big of issue but i dont waste money & thats why i put so much effort into setting up a wire test system for instantanious measured & monitored A/B switching , i will post citations to my statement tomorrow evening but in the mean time this link of Mcintosh's in house factory double blind test results regarding wires is an educational read with zero agenda from Mcintosh being they werent in the cable game .

Roger is a good friend of mine as well as the man who personally built one pair of our line arrays & is the last living from the group of innovaters like James B Lansing , Paul W Klipsch & Bob Carver .

www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

[sidvicious]

Thanks everyone, this ended up being about cables, which is not what I wanted it to be about. I did read the article highfihoney and I already knew the difference between inductance and capacitance and I have made my own cables before, but thanks, a good read for sure and I've read many articles like this in the past, which is why it took me so long to even think about exploring cables. I just explained what I heard in my system and my experience with the newer gear. I have borrowed things from this dealer in the past and I've always been honest with him, if I heard no difference, I heard no difference and he has excepted and respected my opinion.

As an example, I have a friend who heard my Emotiva XPA-2 and USP-1 in another room in the house before and more recently XMC-1 with a five channel Sherbourn PA-150 and he stated "I don't hear a difference between this and my Pioneer Elite Series Receiver SC-07, The XMC-1 with amp is a little louder, but that's it" I never bothered letting him hear my Audio Research equipment because his mind was made up and he heard what he heard and he stated he has heard Mcintosh equipment in the past and he just wasn't that impressed, which caused me to laugh in his face, but whatever.

I have been to his rather beautiful home and heard his Pioneer elite SC-07 and although it sounds good, in my opinion no receiver can match an XMC-1 with a separate five or seven channel amp. I even on one occasion hooked up my XPA-2 to my home theater for the two front channels and let the Sherbourn play the last three channels at his (my friends request) because I wanted to get him into Emotiva equipment, but not even that changed his mind. (ERT 8.3 in front and Martin logan Preface in the rears)

He also stated he thought his Pioneer elite receiver sounded better than my XPA2 and USP-1. The larger point is we all hear what we hear and through age and other things our hearing is more sensitive to some sounds more than others. Some people are treble sensitive and others are midrange or bass and others still are pitch sensitive to wow and flutter on turntables. This same friend of mine will argue you down about the difference between two fishing polls,two bowling balls or even two golf clubs between different companies. The whole point is it's about the music first and the equipment is there to enhance the experience, thanks for listening guys.

[vneal]

I read with interest your descriptions and I too hear the extra 10% from various cables and interconnects. I play with the surround thing but really don't get the thrill that 2.2 channel now gives me.

You have a system I could only dream of. Nice