Post by sidvicious on Oct 31, 2015 10:31:35 GMT -5
I will be comparing the Audio Research DS450, Emotiva XPA-2 and the Audio Research Vt-100 MKIII. There is a story behind this amp-DS450, I was at an event that the dealer sponsored at a bar, which I have told before, but what was interesting is he used the DS450, LS-17se, Sonas Faber-Oympics and a Project 10.1, no digital and he and another gentleman played various album selections. After hearing that system in that room, I longed for that equipment, knowing that I would probably never own it, I mean the speakers are $13,000 by themselves, it sounded like a real live concerts and I know the room was 50 percent of this because the bar’s live bands play in this room.
I had in some form had a love for tubes every since another dealer, who is no longer in business introduce them to me by listening to what I wanted out of my music. I went on to own Emotiva Equipment and had been happy with it, especially after replacing my USP-1, with a Belles 20 and settling in with some Magnepans 1.6’s and two Emotiva sub 10’s. Well upon finding another dealer, and listening to Audio Research Equipment I got that tube bug again and there began the quest to own it once again and through various trades, I went through the Music Hall MMF 9.1, Belles-20, Rogue M120’s, Rogue Ninety-Nine, Cambridge Dac Magic/Emotiva XDA-1 to my current test equipment, what a journey.
I went to the Dealer last week Saturday, for an Event, sponsored through the Dealer and a Local Record Shop for a $200.00 give away to the lucky person to be used at the Record Store. I lost but enjoyed the beer and Audioquest Anti Static brush, which was the give- away/door prize. After the event the Dealer asked me if I would be taking the DS450 with me, which we had discussed last Thursday and I agreed. The Dealer told me when trying this amp out, not to do any serious listening and that I might not like the sound of it for the first couple of days, my mind was like what. The Dealer told me he played this amp in the show room for two days and hated it and then took it home for a week and almost sent it back to Audio Research. The Dealer stated, I hated it and around the 5 or 6 day the Amplifier opened up and started to sound great. The Dealer stated I just wanted you to know this upfront and I want you to leave it on the whole time you have it.
This amp is heavy at 55 pounds, with most of the weight in the front and it has an extra foot in the front because that is where most of the weight is, because of the transformer. Specs for the DS450 is 450 watts into 8 ohms and 550 watts into 4 ohms, Damping Factor 440. When I got this thing home, I ran into my first glitch, the Cardas binding post, what a pain in the rear. You have to screw the binding clip out and put the spaded lugs in and screw it back, no banana clip post and I have banana clips and spades for my Vandy sub. I called the dealer and he told me how to get around this by putting the banana clips in from the top and trying the sub clips in from the sides, but the Vandy clips might be a little difficult, because I had to hold one set of cables in to the post while putting the other set in and screwing in the locking cap, wow, really Audio Research, really!!! (They could have left the old speaker post, the metal ones screw downs that is with their other equipment and been fine. The dealer later told me that since they were not going to have different speaker taps post they decided to use this method, this isn’t on the D300.2. The Dealer was nice enough to call me back 15 minutes after I called him back the same night and he asked me if this was going to be a problem with the clips and I told him I would be fine, good service by the way.
I did hate it from the first time I listened to it and wondered, is he crazy, this sounds like crap, worst than the XPA-2 and far worst than the VT100 MKIII. Three days later I went back to the dealer to get a solution regarding the speaker cable and he gave me some spade post conversion kit from Audioquest that you just plug the banana cables into and use as spades. I continued to listen and Thursday night a wonderful thing happened, the Amplifier opened up, the bass was always powerful and even more pronounced than the XPA-2. The midrange and Treble came alive!!! This is now a whole new ball game. I listened to it Friday (all day) and I’m listening to it as I write this. On Herbie Hancock’s “Future Shock”, Rock it, comes across clear as a bell and the bass and mid bass in nice and tight, the midrange and treble are very good. On Eberhard Weber, “Later that Evening” there is a song called, Death in the Car Wash, this songs, starts out real slow and there is a really low bass line level that later comes in that shakes the pictures on my walls, wow!!! On Roy Haynes, “Thank You”, a song called Bullfight has a Mexican theme and when the drums are being hit it sounds very fast and fluid and that mid bass, great.
On Peter Erskine-self titled, the whole album is good and this record plays to Peter’s strengths as a drummer and percussionist, “Leroy Street” is very clear and open, the bass is very deep and tight and the trumpet playing is clear as a bell. On the song 2, “In Statu Nascendi, this starts out very fast and is a drum solo and Peter is beating the heck out of the drums and you hear the kick pedal and the amplifier keeps up very well. On Wynton Marsalis “Think of One” Album the titled song, Think of One starts out with the trumpet and bass line and steadily goes forward until Wynton and the bassist exchange blows, it’s in very short burst, that would require some type of dynamic range and it is a little startling the first time you hear it. On Grover Washington Jr. this whole album starts out with a lot of bass, deep bass along with Grover’s playing that would be missed without having this type of bass. On John Renbourn’s Sir John A Lot, the whole album besides being good is very detail and his playing is excellent, all of the instruments are in their own space.
To mix it up a bit I used Digital, the Marantz NA-7004, I played Dave Mathews Band, “Grave Digger”, although it was okay, this wasn’t as detailed as on the VT100 MKIII. The XPA-2 has great bass and held it’s own, it just didn’t have the extra detail of the VT100 MKIII. The bass of the DS450 is deeper than the XPA-2, the XPA-2 is like a stud, in the clubs, “I’ll wait until she comes and then she will be mine. The bass is definitely there in spades and acts when called upon. I now truly understand, fully the term “Neutral/Coloration”. Both the DS450 and the XPA2 have great detail, with the DS450 edging it out, but the extra detail and space/air around the instruments isn’t there with either amp, except the VT100 MKIII, which I really noticed on Wynton Marsalis’s Album, the extra detail/coloration was missed. On Roy Haynes drum solo the beating of the drum was more real, but the volume had to be turned up. The DS450 doesn’t get hot, I had it running for over 10 hours at rather high levels and it doesn’t even get warm, but I did feel vibration from the aluminum case as the music played. With this much power I don’t have to turn the LS17se up as loud. I also heard a rumor that Class D because of the Pulse Wave signal switching would have problems with RF and might interfere with tuners or receivers. I tested this by bringing up my older, Luxman TX-101 tuner with a Terk FMd powered antenna and I have the antenna right on top of the amplifier, it sounds the same as being placed on top of one of my speakers, the radio station plays and sounds the same. I have to pick a better location period.
When the DS450 finally woke up I would be in the other room on the computer while playing music and I would hear something and I would have to get up to hear it close because I couldn’t believe the detail. Class D has certain characteristics, Power, Bass, Low to know Heat, Highly Energy Efficient and usually light in weight, not the DS450. I called Audio Research regarding the speaker post and asked them if they could modify them to put the old lugs back on and they said no, they found the Cardas post to be the best for their application, really? I think this is a very good amplifier that despite what some view as a weakness of Class D, being Damping Factor, the DS450 put the hammer down on these speaker drivers. Class D is going to be the future, it’s too good to pass up at this point and I’m sure Emotiva will do it at some point. The DS450 is powerful, articulate, has great bass-like a kick in the chest and can drive any speaker out there, I’m sure, it’s everything the reviewers said it is, but the VT100 MKIII is more detailed and the XPA2 held it’s own. The DS450 is no slouch and I could live with it, I didn’t like it as much for digital, Marantz NA7004 on some songs, but if I can negoitiate a good deal with the dealer for my VT100 MKIII, it might have a new home, the trade offs are hard to beat, less heat, the power, the bass and no expensive tubes to upgrade. Some say the DS450 can sound tube like, with the right preamp, LS27 or Ref 5se, I don’t think I would go that far, but it’s good. This isn’t my ultimate amp, the Ref 75 , with KT-150’s is and it’s bass response and the detail it uncovers from any source can’t be touch by any of these amps, but the DS450 is something I could live with this amp and be proud of, it’s, Neutral, ah, yes, Neutral, but detailed and definitely not boring, indeed.
Test Equipment: Audio Research LS17se, Audio Research Dac 8, Audio Research PH6, VPI HW-19 MK IV with SME-309 Tonearm, Van den hul gold Frog-Cartridge and Vandersteen 2CE Signature IIs with a Vandersteen 2wq Subwoofer and a Marantz NA7004 (Lossless Wav).
Tested Music: Eberhard Weber- Later that Evening, Winton Marsalis-Think of One, Grover Washington Jr. –Come Morning, Herbie Hancock-Future Shock and Peter Erskine-Self Titled. John Renbourn-Sir John A Lot and Roy Haynes-Thank You.
I had in some form had a love for tubes every since another dealer, who is no longer in business introduce them to me by listening to what I wanted out of my music. I went on to own Emotiva Equipment and had been happy with it, especially after replacing my USP-1, with a Belles 20 and settling in with some Magnepans 1.6’s and two Emotiva sub 10’s. Well upon finding another dealer, and listening to Audio Research Equipment I got that tube bug again and there began the quest to own it once again and through various trades, I went through the Music Hall MMF 9.1, Belles-20, Rogue M120’s, Rogue Ninety-Nine, Cambridge Dac Magic/Emotiva XDA-1 to my current test equipment, what a journey.
I went to the Dealer last week Saturday, for an Event, sponsored through the Dealer and a Local Record Shop for a $200.00 give away to the lucky person to be used at the Record Store. I lost but enjoyed the beer and Audioquest Anti Static brush, which was the give- away/door prize. After the event the Dealer asked me if I would be taking the DS450 with me, which we had discussed last Thursday and I agreed. The Dealer told me when trying this amp out, not to do any serious listening and that I might not like the sound of it for the first couple of days, my mind was like what. The Dealer told me he played this amp in the show room for two days and hated it and then took it home for a week and almost sent it back to Audio Research. The Dealer stated, I hated it and around the 5 or 6 day the Amplifier opened up and started to sound great. The Dealer stated I just wanted you to know this upfront and I want you to leave it on the whole time you have it.
This amp is heavy at 55 pounds, with most of the weight in the front and it has an extra foot in the front because that is where most of the weight is, because of the transformer. Specs for the DS450 is 450 watts into 8 ohms and 550 watts into 4 ohms, Damping Factor 440. When I got this thing home, I ran into my first glitch, the Cardas binding post, what a pain in the rear. You have to screw the binding clip out and put the spaded lugs in and screw it back, no banana clip post and I have banana clips and spades for my Vandy sub. I called the dealer and he told me how to get around this by putting the banana clips in from the top and trying the sub clips in from the sides, but the Vandy clips might be a little difficult, because I had to hold one set of cables in to the post while putting the other set in and screwing in the locking cap, wow, really Audio Research, really!!! (They could have left the old speaker post, the metal ones screw downs that is with their other equipment and been fine. The dealer later told me that since they were not going to have different speaker taps post they decided to use this method, this isn’t on the D300.2. The Dealer was nice enough to call me back 15 minutes after I called him back the same night and he asked me if this was going to be a problem with the clips and I told him I would be fine, good service by the way.
I did hate it from the first time I listened to it and wondered, is he crazy, this sounds like crap, worst than the XPA-2 and far worst than the VT100 MKIII. Three days later I went back to the dealer to get a solution regarding the speaker cable and he gave me some spade post conversion kit from Audioquest that you just plug the banana cables into and use as spades. I continued to listen and Thursday night a wonderful thing happened, the Amplifier opened up, the bass was always powerful and even more pronounced than the XPA-2. The midrange and Treble came alive!!! This is now a whole new ball game. I listened to it Friday (all day) and I’m listening to it as I write this. On Herbie Hancock’s “Future Shock”, Rock it, comes across clear as a bell and the bass and mid bass in nice and tight, the midrange and treble are very good. On Eberhard Weber, “Later that Evening” there is a song called, Death in the Car Wash, this songs, starts out real slow and there is a really low bass line level that later comes in that shakes the pictures on my walls, wow!!! On Roy Haynes, “Thank You”, a song called Bullfight has a Mexican theme and when the drums are being hit it sounds very fast and fluid and that mid bass, great.
On Peter Erskine-self titled, the whole album is good and this record plays to Peter’s strengths as a drummer and percussionist, “Leroy Street” is very clear and open, the bass is very deep and tight and the trumpet playing is clear as a bell. On the song 2, “In Statu Nascendi, this starts out very fast and is a drum solo and Peter is beating the heck out of the drums and you hear the kick pedal and the amplifier keeps up very well. On Wynton Marsalis “Think of One” Album the titled song, Think of One starts out with the trumpet and bass line and steadily goes forward until Wynton and the bassist exchange blows, it’s in very short burst, that would require some type of dynamic range and it is a little startling the first time you hear it. On Grover Washington Jr. this whole album starts out with a lot of bass, deep bass along with Grover’s playing that would be missed without having this type of bass. On John Renbourn’s Sir John A Lot, the whole album besides being good is very detail and his playing is excellent, all of the instruments are in their own space.
To mix it up a bit I used Digital, the Marantz NA-7004, I played Dave Mathews Band, “Grave Digger”, although it was okay, this wasn’t as detailed as on the VT100 MKIII. The XPA-2 has great bass and held it’s own, it just didn’t have the extra detail of the VT100 MKIII. The bass of the DS450 is deeper than the XPA-2, the XPA-2 is like a stud, in the clubs, “I’ll wait until she comes and then she will be mine. The bass is definitely there in spades and acts when called upon. I now truly understand, fully the term “Neutral/Coloration”. Both the DS450 and the XPA2 have great detail, with the DS450 edging it out, but the extra detail and space/air around the instruments isn’t there with either amp, except the VT100 MKIII, which I really noticed on Wynton Marsalis’s Album, the extra detail/coloration was missed. On Roy Haynes drum solo the beating of the drum was more real, but the volume had to be turned up. The DS450 doesn’t get hot, I had it running for over 10 hours at rather high levels and it doesn’t even get warm, but I did feel vibration from the aluminum case as the music played. With this much power I don’t have to turn the LS17se up as loud. I also heard a rumor that Class D because of the Pulse Wave signal switching would have problems with RF and might interfere with tuners or receivers. I tested this by bringing up my older, Luxman TX-101 tuner with a Terk FMd powered antenna and I have the antenna right on top of the amplifier, it sounds the same as being placed on top of one of my speakers, the radio station plays and sounds the same. I have to pick a better location period.
When the DS450 finally woke up I would be in the other room on the computer while playing music and I would hear something and I would have to get up to hear it close because I couldn’t believe the detail. Class D has certain characteristics, Power, Bass, Low to know Heat, Highly Energy Efficient and usually light in weight, not the DS450. I called Audio Research regarding the speaker post and asked them if they could modify them to put the old lugs back on and they said no, they found the Cardas post to be the best for their application, really? I think this is a very good amplifier that despite what some view as a weakness of Class D, being Damping Factor, the DS450 put the hammer down on these speaker drivers. Class D is going to be the future, it’s too good to pass up at this point and I’m sure Emotiva will do it at some point. The DS450 is powerful, articulate, has great bass-like a kick in the chest and can drive any speaker out there, I’m sure, it’s everything the reviewers said it is, but the VT100 MKIII is more detailed and the XPA2 held it’s own. The DS450 is no slouch and I could live with it, I didn’t like it as much for digital, Marantz NA7004 on some songs, but if I can negoitiate a good deal with the dealer for my VT100 MKIII, it might have a new home, the trade offs are hard to beat, less heat, the power, the bass and no expensive tubes to upgrade. Some say the DS450 can sound tube like, with the right preamp, LS27 or Ref 5se, I don’t think I would go that far, but it’s good. This isn’t my ultimate amp, the Ref 75 , with KT-150’s is and it’s bass response and the detail it uncovers from any source can’t be touch by any of these amps, but the DS450 is something I could live with this amp and be proud of, it’s, Neutral, ah, yes, Neutral, but detailed and definitely not boring, indeed.
Test Equipment: Audio Research LS17se, Audio Research Dac 8, Audio Research PH6, VPI HW-19 MK IV with SME-309 Tonearm, Van den hul gold Frog-Cartridge and Vandersteen 2CE Signature IIs with a Vandersteen 2wq Subwoofer and a Marantz NA7004 (Lossless Wav).
Tested Music: Eberhard Weber- Later that Evening, Winton Marsalis-Think of One, Grover Washington Jr. –Come Morning, Herbie Hancock-Future Shock and Peter Erskine-Self Titled. John Renbourn-Sir John A Lot and Roy Haynes-Thank You.
