New XMC-based Processor

[newprometheus]

Sept 18, 2016 18:27:51 GMT -5 Axis said:

Emotiva, scratch the BasX MC-700 with Emo-Q and scratch the Emersa EMP-1 with Dirac.

Build a minimal preamp processor based on the XMC-1 processor and operating system that can be mixed and matched with the BasX and X-Series amps. Do it for under $1000.

Sept 18, 2016 20:52:40 GMT -5 hosko said:

Which part of the XMC1 would you like cut out to make this scaled down version. We know the HDMI costs around $400-500 as that is how much its going to cost to upgrade the HDMI board to all HDMI2.0a. Where exactly are you finding another 1k in savings?

You say you only want 5.1 but I'm not sure a company these days would build anything smaller then 7.1 and the XMC1 is 7.2 so not a huge savings there by only having one sub output. You would still need the DAE-7D DSP board, analog RCA aggregation board, the USB/ SPDIF board as it has the Xilinx Programmable Logic Controller on-board which does the routing, and the Ethernet/ 12V trigger board. If you didn't want stereo reference the AXMC-1 Rev D PC board could be slightly different as you wouldn't need the PCM1502 DACs but rest would be the same.

So you want a pre/pro that is almost identical to the XMC1 under the hood for $1000, I don't personally run a business and anybody who sold a unit like that probably wouldn't for very much longer.

Yes, exactly, I couldn't agree with Axis more!  I'll tell you exactly what to cut out from the XMC-1:

1. All room correction - Dirac Live 7,.2 (Dirac Full)
2. High performance AM/FM tuner
3. All balanced/XLR inputs
4. All balanced/XLR outputs
5. 3 pairs (stereo) - analog audio (unbalanced)
6. 1 pair (stereo) - analog line level record out (unbalanced)
7. 1 pair (stereo) - analog line level Zone 2 output (unbalanced)

If you were in the market for such a product, what would you be willing to pay?  Please answer the poll, and hopefully we can show Emotiva that there is demand for such a product.

Thank you!

[igorzep]

Once you cut out p.1: $0 - not worth considering.

[edrummereasye]

By "all room correction", I assume you are willing to forego the parametric EQ as well?

Don't know how much of a cost driver the AM/FM tuner section is, but I'm thinking for every person who says "ditch it", someone else is going to say they want it, and/or want an HD Radio tuner on board...

And while I can see dropping the XLR's, and the "record out", I suspect dropping all the analog inputs and the zone out would shrink the target audience...*possibly* more than the extra cost of including them would.

[newprometheus]

Sept 19, 2016 12:25:55 GMT -5 edrummereasye said:

By "all room correction", I assume you are willing to forego the parametric EQ as well?

Don't know how much of a cost driver the AM/FM tuner section is, but I'm thinking for every person who says "ditch it", someone else is going to say they want it, and/or want an HD Radio tuner on board...

And while I can see dropping the XLR's, and the "record out", I suspect dropping all the analog inputs and the zone out would shrink the target audience...*possibly* more than the extra cost of including them would.

Yes, absolutely!  I am willing to forgo all room correction AND the parametric EQ as well.  I can tell you that the parametric EQ is not important to me one iota, and I'm guessing the same is true for most of you as well, but my assumption may be wrong, so I'm flexible on this point.  Let me know if a parametric EQ is important to you, and we can adjust the criteria for this product accordingly.

Look, my feeling is that if an AM/FM Tuner is that important to someone, than they should either get an outboard HD Radio Tuner, or a separate Tuner component.  I don't see a point to include it in the Processor.  If any thing, it belongs in a Receiver.

No, I didn't say anything about dropping all the analog inputs or the zone out!  Are you nuts?  Please see the XMC-1 web page (XMC-1 Specs) to see everything that would still be included.  To answer this particular question specifically, you would still have the following analog inputs:

1. 1 pair (stereo) – Reference quality analog audio (unbalanced; machined gold-plated RCA connectors)
   
2. 1 set (7.1 channels) – Analog audio (unbalanced)

and the following zone outs:

1. 1 pair (stereo) – analog line level main zone mix output (unbalanced)
   
2. 1 pair (stereo) – analog line level Zone 2 output (unbalanced)

That, in my opinion, is more than enough!  Wouldn't you agree?

Thank you!

[petew]

Room correction is a "must have" for me. How about making Dirac totally optional? Don't bundle the stripped version or the mic. Build in PEQ since cost should be very minimal.

I'd want at least one set of analog stereo inputs and one analog zone output.

[newprometheus]

Sept 19, 2016 13:03:49 GMT -5 petew said:

Room correction is a "must have" for me. How about making Dirac totally optional? Don't bundle the stripped version or the mic. Build in PEQ since cost should be very minimal.

I'd want at least one set of analog stereo inputs and one analog zone output.

Sorry, but I think that forgoing all room correction is one of the primary cost savings of this proposition, but I'm open to making it optional, such that you could purchase it separately.

When you say that the cost for the PEQ would be minimal, I wonder what you mean.  How minimal?

Yes, you'd absolutely have a set of analog stereo inputs and analog zone outputs too.  Please see my earlier post, clarifying this point.

Thank you!

[TempTag]

I would be somewhat interested in something with Atmos and Dirac in a 7.2 / 9.2 format (even as a receiver) but that space is pretty crowded with the Marantz/Denon/Yamaha/Onkyo/Integra/Pioneers of the world creating annual iterations. It seems hard for Emotiva to complete in this space where change is constant and cut rate pricing on last years model makes competition on sound quality a more difficult sell.

I would really be interested in an AV preamp with more than 13 channels and Dirac and PEQ - a space not covered currently by the mass market companies, and the mass market AV preamp space tends to have 2 year life cycles today which seems closer to an Emotiva market.

[newprometheus]

Sept 19, 2016 13:25:19 GMT -5 TempTag said:

I would be somewhat interested in something with Atmos and Dirac in a 7.2 / 9.2 format (even as a receiver) but that space is pretty crowded with the Marantz/Denon/Yamaha/Onkyo/Integra/Pioneers of the world creating annual iterations. It seems hard for Emotiva to complete in this space where change is constant and cut rate pricing on last years model makes competition on sound quality a more difficult sell.

I would really be interested in an AV preamp with more than 13 channels and Dirac and PEQ - a space not covered currently by the mass market companies, and the mass market AV preamp space tends to have 2 year life cycles today which seems closer to an Emotiva market.

Sorry, but I think you would definitely be an outlier, and not the target audience for this product.

More than 13 channels?!  Seriously?  I think you may have other more pressing issues to contend with...

[Axis]

Here is the description and a picture of the Emersa EMP-1. Is this the new XMC based processor for under $1000. It will only match up with the Emersa Digital amplifiers. What does anyone here really know about the operating system or the quality of the analog section compared to the XMC-1. It was announced December 2015. It is now mid September 2016. Will it actually make the light of day ?

Emersa EMP-1 (MSRP: $899): This full 7.1 channel preamp processor with unbalanced analog outputs plus balanced subwoofer output, has built-in Bluetooth connectivity, Dirac Live ™ room correction, USB DAC, and an Ethernet remote control option. The EMP-1 features an elegant aluminum chassis and includes a machined aluminum infrared remote control.

If you put this Emersa EMP-1 in a BasX chassis then you may have a new XMC based processor for under $1000 that will match both the BasX and XPA amplifiers. It will not be a processor with the UMC-1 operating system and EMO-Q like the BasX MC-700.

I'm sorry, there is no such thing as a BasX MC-700 so like the BasX MC-700 maybe.

[Axis]

If the Emersa EMP-1 for $899 can have Dirac Live ™ room correction then the ones you guys are voting on sure can include room correction for the prices some of you want to pay. I will not spend more than $1000.

[qdtjni]

Why do you call it XMC based?

[LCSeminole]

Sept 19, 2016 16:25:21 GMT -5 qdtjni said:

Why do you call it XMC based?

The XMC-1 was built from the ground up via a TI chip based platform. Now that Dan/Lonnie/Ray have a solely owned platform, it is now time for it to spawn other projects, the EMP-1 being one of these upcoming products built in-house derived from the XMC-1 platform.

[gus4emo]

How about one right between the XMC and XMR? Now that's what I'm talking about.

[Gary Cook]

Shortly (in the next 12 months or so) I will need a replacement for the UMC-200 (a mid level processor with quality sound), for which I paid $US699 + freight direct from Emotiva, at the exchange rate at the time that was around $A900. Buying locally (in Oz) that would be around $A1600 as there is currently an unfavourable exchange rate, GST and Distributor plus Retailer margins. Forgetting for a moment going to the US and buying an XMC-1 and using the 25% UFL.

What I would look for in a replacement would be all the UMC-200 features plus;
1. Atmos, DTS-X at 5.1.2, which the 7.1 guys could utilise
2. Ti/Burr Brown DAC implementation
3. A control app, hence wifi capability
4. HDR & 4K support, 30 fps would be OK but preferably 60 fps
5. The same PEQ as the UMC-200 but upgraded for better subwoofer control
6. An upgrade available for DIRAC, software enabled
7. An optional, at nominal cost, remote control for the few that wouldn't use the app and/or a universal remote

What I don't need;
1. Differential circuitry, I have a XSP-1 for that
2. XLR inputs or outputs, I have a XSP-1 for that
3. AM/FM radio, I can stream what I want
4. EmoQ
5. Bluetooth (the wifi connectivity would replace that)

A price target between $US600 and $US800, which I believe is achievable by leaving out the features and current hardware (ie; a net cost), some of which functionally can be replaced with wifi.

To me a mid level processor has to be priced to be "disposable" when it goes "out of date", which currently is between 3 and 5 years. In comparison a top level processor has to be "upgradeable" which the XMC-1 is proving to be. The trick is not spec'ing the mid level processor too high such that it can't be priced accordingly.


Cheers
Gary

[Axis]

My requirements would be

5.1
No room correction
No EQ
Manual speaker set up
Only Dolby and DTS codecs
Bug free operation ( Texas Instrument chip )
Excellent Emotiva analog performance
4" or under height
4 HDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs
1 usb 1 coax 1 optical input
1 analog input
1 Stereo L/R analog and 1 PCM mix down output from active input source and always on
No Wi-Fi
No Bluetooth
A round knob for volume control
Dim option for complete blackout of illumination except small red dot to indicate On

Under $1000 unless it has a nuclear reactor and then I don't care what it cost.

[wrinklemash]

I am not sure that a discussion of a sub $1000 prepro with features and capabilities that are very similar to the forthcoming BasX MC-700 and Emersa EMP-1 makes much sense. What's the business reason why Emotiva should produce another prepro in this price range? Yes, there may be a market for it, but really, what's the business reason? Seems awfully redundant to me.

IMO - A more fruitful discussion might be about something that could justify a $1200 to $1700 price tag. There is HUGE gulf and opportunity between the announced price of an Emersa EMP-1 ($899) and the XMC-1 ($2,499 and rising) that no one in the market is addressing. Another way to look at it: What could Emotiva do that would be unique to the Marantz 7702mkII and Yamaha CX-A5100 in this price range?

What features would justify that price point?

I ask this because at $2499 and rising, the XMC-1 has gotten too expensive to many of the audiophiles that have supported Emotiva. It's still desirable, but out of reach for too many. An "XMC-1 Lite" would sell like hotcakes at this price point.

[wrinklemash]

Sept 19, 2016 17:29:44 GMT -5 LCSeminole said:

Sept 19, 2016 16:25:21 GMT -5 qdtjni said:

Why do you call it XMC based?

The XMC-1 was built from the ground up via a TI chip based platform. Now that Dan/Lonnie/Ray have a solely owned platform, it is now time for it to spawn other projects, the EMP-1 being one of these upcoming products built in-house derived from the XMC-1 platform.

The Emersa EMP-1 is too stripped down for me. It is pretty but the aesthetic doesn't match my other Emotiva equipment I own.  The feature set (based onthe views of teh back panel) with the BasX MC-700 is underwhelming. Unless they are delaying the MC-700 to add Atmos and DTS:X 5.1.2 and the latest HDMI, it will be outdated and DOA in my book. The cheapest receivers have at least that.

Since they want the XMC-1 R&D to spawn other projects, I hope the XMC-1 will spawn a "Jr." version of itself very soon.

If not, and even though the XMC-1 is modular and can be updated, I hope it is replaced in the next generation of X-series Pre-pros with two units: a genuine successor to the XMC-1 and a more price conscious 'lite' version.

Based on the discussion regarding the Atmos & DTS upgrades, the current XMC-1 is one surround improvement and/or HDMI upgrade from being outdated as it is. Some of the reasons sounds like it is simply a chassis/connection limitation. I hope not.

Maybe the R&D investment in the RMC-1 will trickle down to spawn a new XMC-1 Gen2 and its junior.

The X-series products have gotten better, but they have also gotten more expensive. Not as attainable as they were before.

[Gary Cook]

Tricky to explain but I'll have a go.

When the UMC-1 and then UMC-200 were released they didn't really have anything "missing" technically, they had PEQ, EmoQ, DTS, 7.1, HDMI, HDCP, AM/FM radio, Toslink, Bluetooth, PCM, etc plus great sound quality of course. It had pretty much everything that a similarly priced AVR had.

My rule of thumb view is that a replacement for the UMC-200 should be similarly endowed, we shouldn't look at its specs and say it's technically out of date already. So it needs to have the current (today's, not tomorrow's) standards, it can't have multiple (obvious) gaps in its specs when compared to a similarly priced AVR.

With the above in mind, it can't possibly not have 4K support, we could debate 30 fps versus 60 fps, but 4K is a no brainer FFS a $A479 Denon AVR supports 4K and HDCP2.2. Similarly it needs to support DTS-X and Atmos, they are the current "standards" that AVR's have, but how many channels is again debateable. A $A829 Denon AVR has 4K plus 7.2, wifi, Atmos and DTS-X support.

I sure as hell wouldn't like to be selling an $A800 processor that is missing major (not minor, tick the box stuff) that a $A429 AVR has.


Cheers
Gary

[Boomzilla]

The kicker, of course, is the poll's premise "If you were in the market for such a product..." I'm not (and don't expect to be), but since the question was hypothetical, I voted.

I'd guess that, in keeping with the Emotiva BASX theme (offering less expensive, entry level products for new and less affluent customers) that the sales volume would be greater for a less expensive processor. After all, if the "big companies" can offer an entire AVR, including multi-channel power amp section, for as little as $300 (and sell gazillions of them), then there's certainly money to be made at the low end.

And despite many Loungers' wishes for a "Reference" quality processor, whether Emotiva judges the sales volume to be sufficient to bother building one (or not) remains to be seen.

[wrinklemash]

Sept 20, 2016 2:35:31 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

Tricky to explain but I'll have a go.

When the UMC-1 and then UMC-200 were released they didn't really have anything "missing" technically, they had PEQ, EmoQ, DTS, 7.1, HDMI, HDCP, AM/FM radio, Toslink, Bluetooth, PCM, etc plus great sound quality of course. It had pretty much everything that a similarly priced AVR had.

My rule of thumb view is that a replacement for the UMC-200 should be similarly endowed, we shouldn't look at its specs and say it's technically out of date already. So it needs to have the current (today's, not tomorrow's) standards, it can't have multiple (obvious) gaps in its specs when compared to a similarly priced AVR.

With the above in mind, it can't possibly not have 4K support, we could debate 30 fps versus 60 fps, but 4K is a no brainer FFS a $A479 Denon AVR supports 4K and HDCP2.2. Similarly it needs to support DTS-X and Atmos, they are the current "standards" that AVR's have, but how many channels is again debateable. A $A829 Denon AVR has 4K plus 7.2, wifi, Atmos and DTS-X support.

I sure as hell wouldn't like to be selling an $A800 processor that is missing major (not minor, tick the box stuff) that a $A429 AVR has.


Cheers
Gary

The quotation below is dated, and like I said above, I hope the delay is to bring the unit up to current standards. This statement does not mention Atmos or DTS:X (and I know there will be a bunch of loungers that say it is not necessary too) but the inclusion of both is basically standard now.

From Hometheater.com, April 2016 (I believe this quotes/paraphrases the original Emotiva Press Release too)

"BasX MC-700 (MSRP: $599)
A high-performance 7.1 AV preamp/processor with HDMI 2.0 and Emo-Q room correction. Featuring twin dual-core 32 bit DSP engines, it handles all HD decoding with precision and exceptional fidelity. Five HDMI 2.0-capable inputs support HDCP 2.2, and Emotiva's acclaimed Emo-Q automatic room correction engine produces excellent results in nearly any room. Also, the MC-700 features manual parametric EQ on all channels with independent presets and a pure audio-bypass mode. Rounding out its deep feature set are 7.1 analog inputs and USB audio support."