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Post by mick on Feb 16, 2019 16:15:37 GMT -5
On an unrelated note, I seem to recall having recently read that the rollout of the Atmos/DTX upgrade for the XMC-1 has been pushed out to something like a December time frame. Can anyone confirm? Last post I saw from Lonnie said Q1, which we are half way through. Cheers Gary That's what i have read also.
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Post by donh50 on Feb 16, 2019 16:17:46 GMT -5
A faulty trigger cable caused the XMC-1 to cycle like that? I can see it causing the amps to cycle, but it was the XMC-1 itself, and I'd be surprised if a trigger cable went bad (haven't been touched since the v3 board install almost a year ago). I can test the cables, or buy new (there are five or six in my system plus the Emotiva trigger repeater), but is this a known thing? I can't decide if I need to call Lonnie or an exorcist. But I should probably drop a note in the email. I haven't in months because so many others were reporting the same things. I know the problem will be recreating the event; if it was a one-time thing it'll be impossible to troubleshoot unless they've seen it before. In the meantime I'm very nervous about powering the thing on and thinking about building something to manually control the trigger output. Cycling like that could do a lot of damage to a lot of things. I notice you are using a trigger repeater, but do you have your trigger cables in parallel (all the amps etc power up at once) or series (one amp powers up, then the next, then the next etc)? Mine is a combination of both, without a trigger repeater, in that the XMC-1 triggers the XPA-5. The XMC-1 also triggers the XSP-1 which then triggers the XPA-100 which then triggers an XPA-1L which then triggers the other XPA-1L. That way there is no surge on the XMC-1 trigger circuit, plus there is no huge demand on the power circuit from everything power up at once. Before the XMC-1 I had a UMC-200 configured the same way and excessive demand or a short circuit on the its trigger would cause cycling. I also found if I powered up everything at once using the same power conditioner the voltage drop at the UMC-200 would cause it to shut down. I now don't use a power conditioner and I have the gear split between 2 circuits. Cheers Gary Mostly in parallel though one of the rear subs is triggered from the other. Two of the subs are actually powered on by an X10 setup so the trigger drives the X10 transmitter, then a pair of receivers (appliance modules) power on the subs. I have dealt with power-on surges (inrush current) for ages and do not think that is an issue in this system. I have three 20-A circuits across the front wall; one powers two subs, one the two amplifiers, and the last the TV, Oppo, XMC-1, Comcast STB, a Sonos Connect, and a WiFi access point. I have the latter "low-level" stuff on a UPS to ride out any short power glitches (not infrequent around here, and we have a whole-house generator for longer ones). The two rear subs are on a 15-A circuit with a couple of lights and my notebook PC. As I said earlier, I think (will have to check tonight) I am using only two of the XMC-1's trigger outputs, and since they can be controlled separately, figured they had separate drivers. Either way the load on them is very small. If a trigger cable or connector went bad (strange but suppose) I'd be surprised it would cause the XMC-1 itself to misbehave like that but I am hoping to hear back from Emotiva on that (probably Tuesday). If there are only the two I may have an extra or two and can just replace them. You did remind that I built a power sequencer ages ago, long gone, but had thought to see if I could tinker with the repeater to stagger their outputs. Have to make sure they turn off immediately, however, so needs more than just a simple RC delay.
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 16, 2019 17:20:05 GMT -5
Have to make sure they turn off immediately I just gotta ask why? Mine turn off in the same sequence as they turn on. I don't get any pops, hum, thumps or extraneous noises, they just go click, click, click, click, click and click of their respective power supplies. My trigger cable for the 3 x monoblocks is 5 metres long and once it was squashed when service the gas log fire, weird stuff happened for while till I figured out why. FWIW being in Australia my circuits are 220/240 volts at 15 amps each. Cheers Gary
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Post by enricoclaudio on Feb 16, 2019 20:16:24 GMT -5
At the risk of banning for negativity, tonight something happened that has not before. I decided to do a complete boot cycle to see if it would fix (even temporarily) my lack of sound issue. When I turned it on tonight there was no sound again. Rather than toggling inputs, I held down the power button to do a complete power-down as described by Keith et. al. earlier. I let it sit a little bit (5-10 seconds) then powered it back on. It did the usual power-on of amps, then powering them off, then on again right as it finished booting (I really hate that!) and worked normally for a few seconds. Then it appeared to go to standby all by itself, and much to my horror started oscillating on and off a few (2-3) times a second, popping the amps (power and subs) on and off a few times a second and generally going nuts with LOUD pops to all speakers. I dived for the power strip and turned everything off but by that time one or two of the subs and the XPA-2 had gone into protect mode. I powered off the power amps (XPA-2/XPA-5) using the their rear-panel switches. After waiting a bit I turned the power strip back on, let things settle a bit, then powered the XMC_1 up again. This time it behaved normally so I brought up the power amps and actually had sound. After listening to all the drivers in all the speakers (and subs) and a change of underwear I decided to post and see if anything like this has happened to anyone else? Brought me back decades ago when you often had to be very careful how you powered on and off things to prevent damage... Curious - Don OK, reading again your post looks like you are using an Emotiva ET-3 Trigger Expansion Module like me. I have all my equipment power connected into an APC Power Filter (Non UPS) and a few weeks ago I unplugged the APC from the wall outlet for a few mins then after plug it in back and all the components turned ON, my Emotiva amps started to cycling ON and OFF like crazy. Turned OFF the XMC-1, turned it ON again and the same thing. Then I did press the button on the back of the ET-3 and everything went back to normal. Looks like the ET-3 got crazy after loosing power but changing from Remote to Power ON to Remote again fixed the demonic behavior. I also cleaned it with Holy Water just in case
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Post by donh50 on Feb 16, 2019 23:21:59 GMT -5
Updates:
Sequencing: I am old-school, used to turning power amps on last, off first, thus the desire for that in any sequencer I would get. I know most stuff these days has no issues with turn-on/off thumps, but ancient experience leads to caution that is still with me. Decades ago I lost an amp and speakers during a power glitch. I built a relay-based sequencer with some circuits to turn on the power amps last, then turn them off first. This was before I had any college logic classes so it was purely analog with some single-transistor "logic" circuitry. It sequenced on then powered off the power amps immediately followed by a delay before the preamp turned off. These days it would look completely different. But with six Salon2's and a Voice2 I am inclined to keep my caution.
Note daisy chaining does not always add delay (at least not enough to notice). My subs and I think the amps simply pass the signal along. I am not even sure there is an additional buffer in the subs; I think it simply hard-wires the input and output jacks. The front subs have no trigger input so I power them using the X10 modules; the back two are daisy-chained.
Triggers: I was using an ET-3 but turns out it is no longer in circuit. I am using all four XMC-1 triggers. One drives the X10 module for the two front subs, one drives the rear subs, a third the XPA-2, and the final one the XPA-5. I could daisy-chain the two power amps but no need right now. A reminder that the XMC-1 itself was powering on and off, the triggers were just along for the ride. My cables seem secure and the problem has not repeated itself.
I am eagerly awaiting Emotiva's response.
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Post by rogersch on Feb 17, 2019 1:04:39 GMT -5
So the XMC-1 is the son of UMC-1, a basketcase of torment. It's got fantastic audio, but is a lousy video switcher. I'm very happy with my solution. I plugged my devices directly into the four HDMI input on the TV and use it as the switcher. The TV as switcher is instant and 100% reliable. My 4k DVD player is the same brand as the TV so they sync together perfectly. The TV apps are excellent, and make my AppleTV and Chromecase redundant. I only use the XMC-1 as an audio processor, which it does an excellent job. I finally got ARC to automatically turn the XMC-1 ON/OFF with the TV; ARC also successfully passes my TV remote volume changes to the XMC-1. (But ARC still doesn't pass the actual audio so I have to use a fiber cable to feed the audio from the TV to the XMC-1.) So, now I'm very happy with the XMC-1. I do all my controlling from my TV remote, get instant and reliable HDMI switching, and excellent audio from the XMC-1 and my Emo amplifiers. Sincerely /b The only drawback of this solution is that multi-channel lossless audio cannot be used as this isn't supported by SPDIF. Only Dolby Digital is supported. Hopefully in the future eARC will solve this problem (although not to be used for the XMC-1..) But all video related sources, which do not contain multi-channel lossless audio, I have also connected directly to my LG TV and feed the audio back via an optical cable (SPDIF).
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Post by spom409 on Feb 18, 2019 0:32:50 GMT -5
5.4 Upgrade and Apple TV
After upgrading the XMC-1 I am noticing different behavior when playing content from Apple TV (Gen 4). Any 5.1 content now displays (Surround) 7.1 PCM for the mode.
This was not the case prior to the upgrade. 5.1 was displayed correctly.
I applied the upgrade twice. Applied reboots for Apple TV, XMC as well as the Samsung TV. No change. Apple TV behavior with the XMC has provided the most issues in general .Mostly related to missing video or audio at times but power cycle of the TV has usually taken care of it.
Will be contacting support tomorrow but thought I'd reach out to other XMC/apple TV owners to see if they've run across the (7.1) issues. with the new 5.4 code.
Thanks!
BTW-- HDMI performance with Oppo 103 and XMC has been trouble free.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 18, 2019 3:08:42 GMT -5
5.4 Upgrade and Apple TV After upgrading the XMC-1 I am noticing different behavior when playing content from Apple TV (Gen 4). Any 5.1 content now displays (Surround) 7.1 PCM for the mode. This was not the case prior to the upgrade. 5.1 was displayed correctly. I applied the upgrade twice. Applied reboots for Apple TV, XMC as well as the Samsung TV. No change. Apple TV behavior with the XMC has provided the most issues in general .Mostly related to missing video or audio at times but power cycle of the TV has usually taken care of it. Will be contacting support tomorrow but thought I'd reach out to other XMC/apple TV owners to see if they've run across the (7.1) issues. with the new 5.4 code. Thanks! BTW-- HDMI performance with Oppo 103 and XMC has been trouble free. This is simply a "front panel" display/"Info" screen reporting issue and has already been reported. I too am experiencing this as are a few others that I believe have already posted this as well. "Hair Nick" a page or two back is trying out a new beta firmware with some members and I'd bet this will be fixed in the next firmware release. For me, this is the only bug I'm experiencing with v5.4, otherwise in my setup things are quite stable.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 18, 2019 8:34:05 GMT -5
Just wanted to report that I have had to hard boot twice this weekend for the no video or no sound issue when turning on. Everything had been stable for awhile. I did also want to mention something new, at least to me. The center channel was out also after reboot. Fixed by toggling between Dirac and Preset 1, back to Dirac. Weird. Hopefully this can be fixed and is addressed in the next firmware update.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 18, 2019 10:33:59 GMT -5
5.4 Upgrade and Apple TV After upgrading the XMC-1 I am noticing different behavior when playing content from Apple TV (Gen 4). Any 5.1 content now displays (Surround) 7.1 PCM for the mode. This was not the case prior to the upgrade. 5.1 was displayed correctly. I applied the upgrade twice. Applied reboots for Apple TV, XMC as well as the Samsung TV. No change. Apple TV behavior with the XMC has provided the most issues in general .Mostly related to missing video or audio at times but power cycle of the TV has usually taken care of it. Will be contacting support tomorrow but thought I'd reach out to other XMC/apple TV owners to see if they've run across the (7.1) issues. with the new 5.4 code. Thanks! BTW-- HDMI performance with Oppo 103 and XMC has been trouble free. This is simply a "front panel" display/"Info" screen reporting issue and has already been reported. I too am experiencing this as are a few others that I believe have already posted this as well. "Hair Nick" a page or two back is trying out a new beta firmware with some members and I'd bet this will be fixed in the next firmware release. For me, this is the only bug I'm experiencing with v5.4, otherwise in my setup things are quite stable. I've also discovered this morning the same bug when playing multi-channel(5.1) SACD's when sending PCM(not DSD) via my Oppo UDP-203. PCM appears to be the commonality with this "Display" bug. It also happens when sending PCM, instead of bitstream, with all 5.1 discs. Since the ATV4K defaults to decoding audio to PCM, it's sent to the XMC-1 as uncompressed mulit-channel LPCM, I'm concluding that all of these situations are the same.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 18, 2019 11:06:04 GMT -5
Just wanted to report that I have had to hard boot twice this weekend for the no video or no sound issue when turning on. Everything had been stable for awhile. I did also want to mention something new, at least to me. The center channel was out also after reboot. Fixed by toggling between Dirac and Preset 1, back to Dirac. Weird. Hopefully this can be fixed and is addressed in the next firmware update. It's seems like I've been finding this weekend(now that I'm off work for the week and not working 60+hours) some of the bugs that many are reporting. I just experienced the "No Center Channel" bug when streaming NetFlix while I was verifying the PCM bug in my posts above. The multi-channel stream started as 2.0 and didn't switch to 5.1 or 7.1, and with this "No Center Channel". I simply backed out of the NetFlix app and went back in and it fixed it, I didn't have to switch inputs or re-boot.
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 18, 2019 11:48:02 GMT -5
This is simply a "front panel" display/"Info" screen reporting issue and has already been reported. I too am experiencing this as are a few others that I believe have already posted this as well. "Hair Nick" a page or two back is trying out a new beta firmware with some members and I'd bet this will be fixed in the next firmware release. For me, this is the only bug I'm experiencing with v5.4, otherwise in my setup things are quite stable. I've also discovered this morning the same bug when playing multi-channel(5.1) SACD's when sending PCM(not DSD) via my Oppo UDP-203. PCM appears to be the commonality with this "Display" bug. It also happens when sending PCM, instead of bitstream, with all 5.1 discs. Since the ATV4K defaults to decoding audio to PCM, it's sent to the XMC-1 as uncompressed mulit-channel LPCM, I'm concluding that all of these situations are the same. I believe this is expected behavior from the ATV, but not the Oppo. AFAIK, when selecting "Best Quality" in the ATV4K's audio settings, it will send 7.1 uncompressed PCM regardless of the actual channel count of the original content. That is to say as long as that content is encoded as true multi-channel "surround" based format. I do see my XMC-1 switch between PCM 2.0 and PCM 7.1 when going in-between the menus and actual content. I also see PCM 2.0 from content (or apps) that don't have, or support, multi-channel "surround" content. My XMC-1 also reports "DD5.1" if I set my ATV4K to output "Dolby Digital 5.1" as opposed to "Best Quality". Until now, I thought this was correct. Tonight, I will plug my ATV4K into the HDMI Input of my Oppo to see what it "sees" coming from the ATV. Afterwards, I will also set my 203 to output PCM instead of bitstream to see if I get the same "PCM 7.1" results as you.
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richb
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Post by richb on Feb 18, 2019 12:41:39 GMT -5
I've also discovered this morning the same bug when playing multi-channel(5.1) SACD's when sending PCM(not DSD) via my Oppo UDP-203. PCM appears to be the commonality with this "Display" bug. It also happens when sending PCM, instead of bitstream, with all 5.1 discs. Since the ATV4K defaults to decoding audio to PCM, it's sent to the XMC-1 as uncompressed mulit-channel LPCM, I'm concluding that all of these situations are the same. I believe this is expected behavior from the ATV, but not the Oppo. AFAIK, when selecting "Best Quality" in the ATV4K's audio settings, it will send 7.1 uncompressed PCM regardless of the actual channel count of the original content. That is to say as long as that content is encoded as true multi-channel "surround" based format. I do see my XMC-1 switch between PCM 2.0 and PCM 7.1 when going in-between the menus and actual content. I also see PCM 2.0 from content (or apps) that don't have, or support, multi-channel "surround" content. My XMC-1 also reports "DD5.1" if I set my ATV4K to output "Dolby Digital 5.1" as opposed to "Best Quality". Until now, I thought this was correct. Tonight, I will plug my ATV4K into the HDMI Input of my Oppo to see what it "sees" coming from the ATV. Afterwards, I will also set my 203 to output PCM instead of bitstream to see if I get the same "PCM 7.1" results as you. I agree those seems to be the behavior of the ATV4K and has been since ATMOS support was implemented. It delivers 7.1 on my system for multichannel sources. LPCM permits Apple sound to be overlayed. It will bitstream ATMOS when the source is ATMOS and the sink (AVR/processor) is ATMOS capable. This means the ATV4K will never bitstream to the current XMC-1. - Rich
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 18, 2019 12:44:51 GMT -5
I've also discovered this morning the same bug when playing multi-channel(5.1) SACD's when sending PCM(not DSD) via my Oppo UDP-203. PCM appears to be the commonality with this "Display" bug. It also happens when sending PCM, instead of bitstream, with all 5.1 discs. Since the ATV4K defaults to decoding audio to PCM, it's sent to the XMC-1 as uncompressed mulit-channel LPCM, I'm concluding that all of these situations are the same. I believe this is expected behavior from the ATV, but not the Oppo. AFAIK, when selecting "Best Quality" in the ATV4K's audio settings, it will send 7.1 uncompressed PCM regardless of the actual channel count of the original content. That is to say as long as that content is encoded as true multi-channel "surround" based format. I do see my XMC-1 switch between PCM 2.0 and PCM 7.1 when going in-between the menus and actual content. I also see PCM 2.0 from content (or apps) that don't have, or support, multi-channel "surround" content. My XMC-1 also reports "DD5.1" if I set my ATV4K to output "Dolby Digital 5.1" as opposed to "Best Quality". Until now, I thought this was correct. Tonight, I will plug my ATV4K into the HDMI Input of my Oppo to see what it "sees" coming from the ATV. Afterwards, I will also set my 203 to output PCM instead of bitstream to see if I get the same "PCM 7.1" results as you. I'm trying your idea sending the ATV4K through the HDMI input on the 203, and yes both the 203 and XMC-1 report DD5.1 from DD5.1 stream content. However when sent 5.1 pcm content from the ATV4K the 203 reports 5.1, but the XMC-1 reports 7.1, and 2.0 & 7.1 pcm content report correctly on both the 203 and XMC-1. So this definitely supports my conclusion that this is a bug that the XMC-1 reports 5.1 pcm incorrectly. Definitely want to hear whether your findings verify mine or if they're different.
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richb
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Post by richb on Feb 18, 2019 13:03:34 GMT -5
I believe this is expected behavior from the ATV, but not the Oppo. AFAIK, when selecting "Best Quality" in the ATV4K's audio settings, it will send 7.1 uncompressed PCM regardless of the actual channel count of the original content. That is to say as long as that content is encoded as true multi-channel "surround" based format. I do see my XMC-1 switch between PCM 2.0 and PCM 7.1 when going in-between the menus and actual content. I also see PCM 2.0 from content (or apps) that don't have, or support, multi-channel "surround" content. My XMC-1 also reports "DD5.1" if I set my ATV4K to output "Dolby Digital 5.1" as opposed to "Best Quality". Until now, I thought this was correct. Tonight, I will plug my ATV4K into the HDMI Input of my Oppo to see what it "sees" coming from the ATV. Afterwards, I will also set my 203 to output PCM instead of bitstream to see if I get the same "PCM 7.1" results as you. I'm trying your idea sending the ATV4K through the HDMI input on the 203, and yes both the 203 and XMC-1 report DD5.1 from DD5.1 stream content. However when sent 5.1 pcm content from the ATV4K the 203 reports 5.1, but the XMC-1 reports 7.1, and 2.0 & 7.1 pcm content report correctly on both the 203 and XMC-1. So this definitely supports my conclusion that this is a bug that the XMC-1 reports 5.1 pcm incorrectly. I get the same results from the UDP-205, it looks like a reporting error. I don’t have 7.1, someone should check how 5.1 sources behave. If mixing to the rears should occur, does it? - Rich
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 18, 2019 13:57:18 GMT -5
I'm trying your idea sending the ATV4K through the HDMI input on the 203, and yes both the 203 and XMC-1 report DD5.1 from DD5.1 stream content. However when sent 5.1 pcm content from the ATV4K the 203 reports 5.1, but the XMC-1 reports 7.1, and 2.0 & 7.1 pcm content report correctly on both the 203 and XMC-1. So this definitely supports my conclusion that this is a bug that the XMC-1 reports 5.1 pcm incorrectly. I get the same results from the UDP-205, it looks like a reporting error. I don’t have 7.1, someone should check how 5.1 sources behave. If mixing to the rears should occur, does it? - Rich The rear side surrounds are active, but there is no mixing to the rear back surrounds. It definitely is seeing 5.1 pcm as just that and doesn't have an option for DPLIIx, thus the no rear surround mixing. In other words, it's as if the XMC-1 thinks you've set your speaker setup for 5.1. It does however allow 2.0 pcm to be processed with DPLIIx. So this is more than a reporting error, the processing of pcm 5.1 is affected by not allowing DPLIIx to be applied. Anyone else with a 7.1 speaker setup want to verify my findings. Doc, let me know what you come up with when you get a chance after work.
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Post by enricoclaudio on Feb 18, 2019 14:59:14 GMT -5
When sending DD5.1 from any source to the XMC-1 and select Surround format, only 5.1 speakers will have sound even if you have a 7.1 speaker setup. This is the way DD codec works. However, if you send DTS5.1 from any source to the XMC-1 and you have a 7.1 speaker setup, you will get on your rear speakers the same sound as in your surround speakers as this is per DTS codec. If you want your rear speakers to play content when sending DD5.1, then you have to select DD PLIIx Music or Movie up mixer. If I set my ATV 4K on Best Sound (PCM), the XMC-1 shows PCM 7.1 as incoming signal but I get only PCM 5.1 and no sound on my rear speakers. Up mixers are not available with PCM 5.1. So I think this is a bug that I didn't catch before because I have my ATV 4K set on DD 5.1 so I can use DD PLIIx Movie Up Mixer and have sound coming out of my rear speakers.
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Post by enricoclaudio on Feb 18, 2019 15:35:46 GMT -5
OK guys, I found something very interesting. I was testing PCM 7.1 with Hacksaw Ridge from ATV 4K and like I said, I'm only getting PCM 5.1 sound so no sound on my rear speakers. Now, I went to my bedroom where I have a Marantz SR6013 in a 5.1 speaker setup but I turned ON Rears and put some temporary speakers and playing the same movie, I get my Marantz SR6013 reporting PCM 7.1 and only PCM 5.1 sound, no sound coming from rear speakers. Now, I put Mission Impossible Fallout from ATV 4K and voila, Marantz SR6013 reports PCM 7.1 and got sound on rear speakers. Went back to living room setup, put the same movie up with the XMC-1, and voila, XMC-1 reports PCM 7.1 and THERE IS SOUND coming from the rear speakers. Looks like some movies on iTunes their core audio is 5.1 while others are 7.1 but ATV 4K either way reports PCM 7.1. I also get PCM 7.1 and sound from rear speakers with Solo, Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and Black Panther.
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Post by enricoclaudio on Feb 18, 2019 15:47:55 GMT -5
This last test lead me to the conclusion that the XMC-1 is reporting and playing correctly PCM 7.1 from ATV 4K. The one to blame here is ATV 4K/iTunes.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Feb 18, 2019 16:06:46 GMT -5
Mr enricoclaudio wins the prize! This one factor kept me away from AppleTV for a few years.
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