cawgijoe
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"We made too many of the wrong mistakes." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 18, 2019 13:31:34 GMT -5
My XMC-1 had very few issues, especially after the last firmware update. My main complaint was the slow switching speed. Other than that, all worked well even with the new 4k board.
The problem posting to this forum is that you are not guaranteed that all issues will be picked up by Emotiva. It's really a users forum. It is monitored by moderators and Keith, with others from the company posting occasionally.
The best thing to do is report your problems directly to Emotiva via Support (email and calling in). Mention them here also, but don't rely solely on this forum.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 18, 2019 14:47:34 GMT -5
While that makes sense in principle it doesn't work very well in practice. The reason is that, with modern systems as complex as this, everything interacts, to a greater or lesser degree, with everything else. For example, even sources that are physically connected, but are not selected or playing, can sometimes affect the performance of devices connected to other inputs.
What this means is that, in many cases, specific problems are specific to particular combinations of equipment, even down to the individual models, the firmware versions they contain, and the configuration options selected.
So, for example, you may experience HDMI lock-on problems, with our RMC-1, a 4k Apple TV, and a certain model of Sony 4k TV.... While someone else who also has "the same gear" has no problems whatsoever. And that could happen because he uses a different brand of cables, or because his TV was manufactured six months later and has a different chip set inside, or because his AppleTV was updated more recently than yours. Or it could happen because his AppleTV is set to "bitstream" while yours is set to "auto".
Or it could happen on Netfilx, but not on Disney Plus.
And, yes, certain of those combinations may not be problematic in and of themselves, but may be more or less sensitive to network issues, or HDMI cable issues, or streaming issues.
As a result of all this complexity - putting everything into "a single simple list" is unavoidably misleading.... Because, in order to cover everything in enough detail to be useful, it would be incredibly complex, and still would lack the detail necessary to tell you for certain whether you would experience a specific issue or not. As an example, the specific model of Samsung TV I happen to own was made using LCD panels made at two different factories, in two different countries, and they perform somewhat differently.
As others have said, contacting a moderator about updating the issues thread might help, but if you are looking for an official statement as to what the company is doing to address the issues, you may want to not only email support, but call them. If you don't get the answer you are looking for, send a message to Keith and if that doesn't help, escalate up to Dan Laufman. It's definitely frustrating I'm sure and not knowing what is happening after spending big bucks sucks. I would think it adequate to even just see a list of items they see as problems and are working on. Let’s face it, there were plenty of issues with the XMC-1 that were well-reported, yet never seen as actual issues by those with the power to fix them. Instead they were written off as internet speed problems, or cable issues.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 18, 2019 15:46:36 GMT -5
Not exactly... We have a whole list of things we're working on. And, in fact, when fixed, many of them will no doubt end up eliminating a variety of interrelated issues.
But the reality is that, while we do still have a few specific known issues, where we are "doing something wrong that needs to be fixed", most of those issues have already been fixed.
However, since there's no way for you to know which ones affect the exact combination of equipment you have, it wouldn't help much for us to tell you what they are. (And, to be quite frank, it gives people the wrong idea to see a whole long list of issues when, in reality, many of them may only affect one or two individual customers who have specific combinations of equipment.) The issues that remain are the ones where "as far as we know we're following the proper standards - but there still seems to be a problem between us and certain specific combinations of gear". And these are the type where we don't know why the problem is occurring, or who may not be following what standard as carefully as they should, and it may not be obvious how to fix them. That's why we're still working on them.
And, yes, in many cases this amounts to our having to develop workarounds so we can work with other gear whose manufacturers simply are not following the standard... or have made what seem to be odd choices. And, yes, in a perfect world, the fact that we and everyone else follows the HDMI standard should be enough to ensure that everything would work together flawlessly.
However, because the HDMI standard is so complex, and so many folks neglect to follow it completely, we are frequently required to play catch-up, and develop workarounds so we can work properly with other gear. And, unfortunately, a lot of this stuff is neither "obvious" nor "straightforward".
For example, life would be a lot simpler if the AppleTV allowed you to select an unaltered bitstream output, which would pass on Dolby Atmos directly, instead of forcing you to choose between two other - and far from optimal - choices. In that case, they're not doing technically wrong, but simply doing something in an odd and roundabout way, which doesn't always produce the results you may expect or want.
So you’re saying you don’t have a list of items you’re working on? Are you just changing out 1s and 0s randomly to see if customers stop complaining? Seems to me pretty simple to have a list of reported issues that could be categorized as Reported, Attempting to Replicate, Confirmed, In Progress, Fixed. Or just keep guessing. While that makes sense in principle it doesn't work very well in practice. The reason is that, with modern systems as complex as this, everything interacts, to a greater or lesser degree, with everything else. For example, even sources that are physically connected, but are not selected or playing, can sometimes affect the performance of devices connected to other inputs.
What this means is that, in many cases, specific problems are specific to particular combinations of equipment, even down to the individual models, the firmware versions they contain, and the configuration options selected. So, for example, you may experience HDMI lock-on problems, with our RMC-1, a 4k Apple TV, and a certain model of Sony 4k TV.... While someone else who also has "the same gear" has no problems whatsoever. And that could happen because he uses a different brand of cables, or because his TV was manufactured six months later and has a different chip set inside, or because his AppleTV was updated more recently than yours. Or it could happen because his AppleTV is set to "bitstream" while yours is set to "auto".
Or it could happen on Netfilx, but not on Disney Plus.
And, yes, certain of those combinations may not be problematic in and of themselves, but may be more or less sensitive to network issues, or HDMI cable issues, or streaming issues. As a result of all this complexity - putting everything into "a single simple list" is unavoidably misleading.... Because, in order to cover everything in enough detail to be useful, it would be incredibly complex, and still would lack the detail necessary to tell you for certain whether you would experience a specific issue or not. As an example, the specific model of Samsung TV I happen to own was made using LCD panels made at two different factories, in two different countries, and they perform somewhat differently.
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 18, 2019 16:29:15 GMT -5
keith But still you guys have a AppleTV 4k that you can test with? I would even expect you to have all the most common devices? Most issues that have been reported seem to be easy for most to repeat. But of course some issues only happens with a special setup. To me it seems the code block that locks on to a audio stream and sets its output that is a bit glitchy. Not only hdmi sync. Why else would there be similar problems with analog and balaced as well? Especially at startup. edit: Will you rewrite all old XMC-1 code in the future? I would guess some of this old code can cause issues or sluggishness.
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 18, 2019 17:06:51 GMT -5
O.K. I'm posting again even though I do not own a RMC-1, so sue me or sic the Emotiva junk yard dog, LCeminole on me. But I would like to point out that HDMI problems are the cause of chaos among ALL A/V equipment manufacturers and there are NONE who do not have some of these problems given that the A/V setup, equipment, age of equipment vary infinitely among users. This is so much true that entire companies have been established to make special products to address these issues. Mainly I refer to HDFURY a company whose products have saved me from great expense over the years. Just go to this site www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/ and peruse through some of the many many interface problems between all type of video sources, all types of displays, and all types of AVR equipment. The host on the HDFury threads, stands on his head to help people through these problems even if they are unique, and many are, even to the extreme of providing them with unique software to address just their particular problem. HDFury are making their living on this and they are damn good at it. Why would you expect any AVR manufacturer to be able to solve all of these problems? If you have invested considerable money in your HT equipment why would you not be willing to spend another $299 to $399 for a product that not only will solve your present problems but also future problems should you change a component. I know, I know many of you have stated how you have spent big money on your RMC-1 and for that kind of money it should solve everything. Grow up, you know better.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Dec 18, 2019 17:56:13 GMT -5
All of the new processors use different hardware than the XMC-1 - so most of the code has already been rewritten. While there is some overlap, the area of things that locks onto HDMI signals is quite different than the parts that lock onto audio signals. (With HDMI, the HDMI portion must lock on, at which point it then sends the audio to the audio portion.)
The speed limitations on the new processors are caused in part by the code itself and in part by the HDMI switches we use (which are hardware). We are planning some firmware updates that will improve switching speed somewhat, but there is nothing we can do about the hardware limitations.
(Eventually we will be offering a hardware upgrade to support HDMI 2.1, which will require different switched, whose performance will be independent of that of the switches we currently use.)
keith But still you guys have a AppleTV 4k that you can test with? I would even expect you to have all the most common devices? Most issues that have been reported seem to be easy for most to repeat. But of course some issues only happens with a special setup. To me it seems the code block that locks on to a audio stream and sets its output that is a bit glitchy. Not only hdmi sync. Why else would there be similar problems with analog and balaced as well? Especially at startup. edit: Will you rewrite all old XMC-1 code in the future? I would guess some of this old code can cause issues or sluggishness.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Dec 18, 2019 18:04:40 GMT -5
We already have one or two of several different AppleTV models - including the 4k model... And, depending on the other components in the system, they either have problems... or work perfectly. And, when they do have problems, again depending on the other components in the system, there are often specific settings or option choices that enable them to work.
(We do plan to start publishing tips about how to get things to work properly with some specific common combinations of equipment; look for that shortly.)
We are also planning some significant changes that will improve the lock-on speed for audio signals. One of those changes will be an option to individually configure each input to either accept or not accept a DSD input signal. Each audio input must currently test whether the incoming signal is DSD or not - and doing so adds significant time and complexity to the process.
We hope to speed things up considerably by allowing you to set specific inputs, which are never used for DSD audio, to skip the process of checking for a DSD signal.
keith But still you guys have a AppleTV 4k that you can test with? I would even expect you to have all the most common devices? Most issues that have been reported seem to be easy for most to repeat. But of course some issues only happens with a special setup. To me it seems the code block that locks on to a audio stream and sets its output that is a bit glitchy. Not only hdmi sync. Why else would there be similar problems with analog and balaced as well? Especially at startup. edit: Will you rewrite all old XMC-1 code in the future? I would guess some of this old code can cause issues or sluggishness.
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Post by davidl81 on Dec 18, 2019 18:54:24 GMT -5
O.K. I'm posting again even though I do not own a RMC-1, so sue me or sic the Emotiva junk yard dog, LCeminole on me. But I would like to point out that HDMI problems are the cause of chaos among ALL A/V equipment manufacturers and there are NONE who do not have some of these problems given that the A/V setup, equipment, age of equipment vary infinitely among users. This is so much true that entire companies have been established to make special products to address these issues. Mainly I refer to HDFURY a company whose products have saved me from great expense over the years. Just go to this site www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/ and peruse through some of the many many interface problems between all type of video sources, all types of displays, and all types of AVR equipment. The host on the HDFury threads, stands on his head to help people through these problems even if they are unique, and many are, even to the extreme of providing them with unique software to address just their particular problem. HDFury are making their living on this and they are damn good at it. Why would you expect any AVR manufacturer to be able to solve all of these problems? If you have invested considerable money in your HT equipment why would you not be willing to spend another $299 to $399 for a product that not only will solve your present problems but also future problems should you change a component. I know, I know many of you have stated how you have spent big money on your RMC-1 and for that kind of money it should solve everything. Grow up, you know better. This IS patently untrue! I have and have had zero issues with my Denon, Onkyo, Classe` and Marantz AVR's and PrePro's. All with differing HDMI cables, HDMI Extenders, and HDMI coupler's. I do this for a living and spreading this kind of misinformation just to appease or stroke your ego is not helpful to A. The owners here that don't have problems, B. to the owners that do, C. to Emotiva that is scrambeling trying to resolve these issues. At the end of the day these issues must get resolved and squarely fall on Emotiva's shoulders. It does beg the question, what do the big box guys do that Emotiva is having trouble with so that the big box guys stuff works fairly well, yet the Emotiva stuff appears to have issues? FWIW I have no HDMI video issues on my RMC-1 except for the really slow switching, which is not a big deal to me.
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Post by PaulBe on Dec 18, 2019 20:17:18 GMT -5
Just a quick comment on functionality:
I have the occasional burp with my RMC-1L. Funny, I have that with virtually every other software/firmware operated device I have. It is what it is.... Makes me want to play LP's, and buy a 1950's refrigerator - many which still work.
I've had one major malfunction recently, concerning the Blu-Ray version of Mad Max. I had to buy the disc after reading all the hullabaloo concerning this disc.
The 4K disc plays perfectly. The Blu-Ray... Not. It locks up the RMC-1L and I need to power down and reboot.
One disc. Mad Max. That is Warner Bros problem.
That's all for now.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Dec 18, 2019 22:04:58 GMT -5
I SUPER DUPER apologize for the OT question but how's the sound quality on the 8805 ? I purposefully stayed away from that discussion. I do feel there must be some boundaries. That box was never on my list. It doesn’t have Dirac. That’s a game over situation for me. I only brought up a direct comparison because I’m tired of hearing that I have the wrong hdmi cables or that all of my sources may have been manufactured on a Friday afternoon by a staff that just came back from an unauthorized yet rare off campus drinking party, or production was moved to some remote town in Peru and this is the cause of my problems. It sure seems like there are some fundamental issues with the RMC1. What’s weird is that the XMC2 doesn’t have the same issues. Once I upgraded my hdmi cables (best one is the hdmi 2.1), things stabilized. With firmware 1.7, I had a couple of hiccups with ATV4K and for some reason when I turn the tv on to watch a movie first (using Logitech Harmony) the screen goes green - but it predictably fixes itself when I switch to ATV4K and back to the blu-day player. I’m tempted to upgrade all my hdmi to the 2.1 but it’s good enough. It sounds excellent especially with REW. Maybe the firmware has if then logic depending on the model (RMC1 or XMC2)...at any rate I feel bad for the owners of the top of the line RMC1. Perhaps you guys who used the 40% off can do an exchange to the XMC2 and get 40% off on the XMC2. It works pretty darn good.
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novisnick
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CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Dec 19, 2019 2:12:08 GMT -5
Just watched Mandalorian which is aired in Atmos but my RMC-1 only reported 5.1 surround sound. Im running fw 1.5, this doesn’t seem right I’m streaming via ATV 4K with the latest updates. Anybody else having this issue?
Thanks in advance for any reply!
Really been enjoying Mandalorian! 👍
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Post by steelman1991 on Dec 19, 2019 2:47:27 GMT -5
Just watched Mandalorian which is aired in Atmos but my RMC-1 only reported 5.1 surround sound. Im running fw 1.5, this doesn’t seem right I’m streaming via ATV 4K with the latest updates. Anybody else having this issue? Thanks in advance for any reply! Really been enjoying Mandalorian! 👍 Yes - but not an RMC-1 issue. It is a source issue. Being reported as Atmos, but appears to be only available in that format on limited devices. Think the only one I have seen reported that it plays Atmos from is the Roku.
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 19, 2019 6:16:30 GMT -5
That last sentence is just downright comical. Do you really think there’s an overall problem with the disc prohibiting it from playing on every platform? Are you serious about that statement? My last sentence is "That's all for now". Problem? Comedy aside, If that is the only disc I have that creates a problem with playback, the problem is the disc, or Warner Bros. BTW. I had a concert blu-ray disc that my oppo 205 wouldn't play. my cheap Samsung blu-ray player wouldn't play it either. My computer drive would play it. I still blame the disc maker. All of these drives played everything else I put in them. If my RMC-1L is passing through and processing almost everything I throw at it, the problem sources are a source problem. Suggesting anything else is downright comical. You know this is a bug in RMC confirmed by Emotiva? They have also a bugfix for it in firmware 1.7.1, although unreleased due to other issues.
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 19, 2019 6:47:52 GMT -5
Just watched Mandalorian which is aired in Atmos but my RMC-1 only reported 5.1 surround sound. Im running fw 1.5, this doesn’t seem right I’m streaming via ATV 4K with the latest updates. Anybody else having this issue? Thanks in advance for any reply! Really been enjoying Mandalorian! 👍 I’m running firmware 1.7.x and just tried a Netflix movie ”6 Underground”. It’s a Dolby Vision, 4k and atmos movie.. It runs just fine.. Although RMC reports it as Dolby TrueHD, instead of Dolby Digital+ as it should have. Don’t know if this as it should be but, my default mode was Direct. Atmos was not chosen automatically. Had to change mode to Auto, then it said Atmos on the display.
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Post by hsamwel on Dec 19, 2019 8:04:46 GMT -5
One thing to note about AppleTV 4k is that it behaves a little strange with video settings. It has no source direct.
If you set a higher dynamic range and resolution in video and sound settings than the actual source, AppleTV will ALWAYS upscale. So setting it to 4k Dolby Vision will make ALL sources in 4k Dolby Vision. This is crap! So I set it to 4k SDR. This way I only get resolution upscale from 1080p sources but it keeps all colors correct. It has options to match content, dynamic range and frequency. Which is great. But this option only works up, not down. Too bad match resolution isn’t available and that it doesn’t ignore the video settings. Haven’t tried but I guess setting the resolution to 1080p looses 4k in all sources?!
Alot of other oddities.. All audio outputs in 48khz no matter source. No bitstream.
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Post by thrillcat on Dec 19, 2019 8:18:14 GMT -5
One thing to note about AppleTV 4k is that it behaves a little strange with video settings. It has no source direct. If you set a higher dynamic range and resolution in video and sound settings than the actual source, AppleTV will ALWAYS upscale. So setting it to 4k Dolby Vision will make ALL sources in 4k Dolby Vision. This is crap! So I set it to 4k SDR. This way I only get resolution upscale from 1080p sources but it keeps all colors correct. It has options to match content, dynamic range and frequency. Which is great. But this option only works up, not down. Too bad match resolution isn’t available and that it doesn’t ignore the video settings. Haven’t tried but I guess setting the resolution to 1080p looses 4k in all sources?! Alot of other oddities.. All audio outputs in 48khz no matter source. No bitstream. Source Direct mode on AppleTV is achieved by activating “Match Range”, the accompanying designation of HDR or SDR is for the menu system only. I leave mine on SDR Match Range. All content plays in its native format.
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Post by davidl81 on Dec 19, 2019 8:21:29 GMT -5
One thing to note about AppleTV 4k is that it behaves a little strange with video settings. It has no source direct. If you set a higher dynamic range and resolution in video and sound settings than the actual source, AppleTV will ALWAYS upscale. So setting it to 4k Dolby Vision will make ALL sources in 4k Dolby Vision. This is crap! So I set it to 4k SDR. This way I only get resolution upscale from 1080p sources but it keeps all colors correct. It has options to match content, dynamic range and frequency. Which is great. But this option only works up, not down. Too bad match resolution isn’t available and that it doesn’t ignore the video settings. Haven’t tried but I guess setting the resolution to 1080p looses 4k in all sources?! Alot of other oddities.. All audio outputs in 48khz no matter source. No bitstream. It shouldn’t upscale the dynamic range if you select the match range option in the video settings. At least that works for mine with the exception of my ATT TV app, it always goes to HDR which is frustrating
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Post by davidl81 on Dec 19, 2019 8:25:04 GMT -5
Just watched Mandalorian which is aired in Atmos but my RMC-1 only reported 5.1 surround sound. Im running fw 1.5, this doesn’t seem right I’m streaming via ATV 4K with the latest updates. Anybody else having this issue? Thanks in advance for any reply! Really been enjoying Mandalorian! 👍 It’s actually an AppleTV issue on Mando I think. I’ve read that other people with Apple TV’s are also only getting 5.1 on different processors. I also only get 5.1 with my Apple TV and RMC-1
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Post by donh50 on Dec 19, 2019 11:29:16 GMT -5
Could be just one bad disc, does not have to be a mass-produced defect, just a spot defect on a single disc. Quasi-related, I recently ran into an issue with my Oppo BDP-203; the BD plays fine, the DVD exhibits the CINAVIA error message. Can't remember which disc but it was a known bug for Oppo. My son borrowed my BD and I had a DVD of it, but then couldn't watch it. I have also gotten a couple of bad movie discs, and a larger number of CDs, that don't play properly and a replacement disc does fine.
Had Arby's a couple of days ago...
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Post by doc1963 on Dec 19, 2019 12:36:22 GMT -5
Just watched Mandalorian which is aired in Atmos but my RMC-1 only reported 5.1 surround sound. Im running fw 1.5, this doesn’t seem right I’m streaming via ATV 4K with the latest updates. Anybody else having this issue? Thanks in advance for any reply! Really been enjoying Mandalorian! 👍 It’s actually an AppleTV issue on Mando I think. I’ve read that other people with Apple TV’s are also only getting 5.1 on different processors. I also only get 5.1 with my Apple TV and RMC-1 It's not an Apple TV issue... It's a "Disney+" app issue. Just as it was a "Netflix" app issue on the Apple TV platform.
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