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Post by mikoz on Feb 14, 2019 18:23:54 GMT -5
This line: LOUD NOISES WHEN ENTERING AND EXITING DSD MODE HAVE NOT BEEN COMPLETELY ELIMINATED. We recommend that you either avoid using DSD mode for now - or use it at your own risk. ...wish you had told me this when I bought it. Before I had to spend 450 bucks to fix a working subwoofer.
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Post by mikoz on Feb 14, 2019 18:26:34 GMT -5
I sure hope DTS, DSD, HDMI switching fixes are on the top of the heap for the next firmware version. 1) Telling the wife and kids "sorry we can't watch this one tonight it's in DTS" is just ... a bummer. 2) I used to do DSD to PCM conversion in my Oppo(s) and sent PCM to my old Marantz. When sending direct DSD stereo/surround bitstreams over HDMI to my RMC-1 from my UDP-203 the sound quality improvement is immediately apparent even without listening critically. This particular improvement has been one of the biggest positives about the RMC-1 and one of the reasons I've been patient with it so far. Call DSD an oddball and a pain in the rear all you want. But, for the not insignificant number of us who don't have the space or funds for separate music and movie rooms "oddballs" such as solid DSD and analog performance were a critical part of our research and purchasing criteria. 3) Having to sacrifice a goat to the HDMI handshake gods just to get the night started and then 40 minutes into a movie hear a god awful screech because all the goat blood distracted you from the DTS label on the back of the movie box is a ... double bummer. I'm aware you guys are cranking away on fixes and I appreciate that. I'm just saying that I hope these particular issues are being given the priority they are due. To me, releasing a product that’s known to potentially cause damage is really really bad. Issues that can destroy components have to be resolved before release or the features have to be disabled. No other way around it. I see now in the release notes it says “use at your own risk”. I can attest to the risk.
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Post by mikoz on Feb 14, 2019 18:28:32 GMT -5
I think they need to put out a bulletin stating to use the RMC-1 at your own risk, as it has the potential to damage equipment. Still not sure how this was released into the wild with these types of issues baked in... They basically just did that, sort of..read the release notes. Day late, dollar short.
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Post by tchaik on Feb 14, 2019 18:31:53 GMT -5
I think they need to put out a bulletin stating to use the RMC-1 at your own risk, as it has the potential to damage equipment. Still not sure how this was released into the wild with these types of issues baked in... They basically just did that, sort of..read the release notes. Day late, dollar short. you are obviously very unhappy with your RMC-1. please send it back and get your refund. please put us out of your misery. no need to respond. it has all been said before and nothing new is to be added.
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Post by bblv on Feb 14, 2019 20:03:12 GMT -5
They basically just did that, sort of..read the release notes. Day late, dollar short. you are obviously very unhappy with your RMC-1. please send it back and get your refund. please put us out of your misery. no need to respond. it has all been said before and nothing new is to be added. If you paid attention to my posts you would know that my feeling is exactly the opposite of your characterization. I'm just stating the obvious that it wasn't ready for prime time. I'm trying to become an Emo fanboy, but not quite there. Once the RMC is rock solid, I'll be there guaranteed.
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Post by richter250 on Feb 14, 2019 20:08:43 GMT -5
Firmware update installed. Very smooth. Thanks Emotiva team! The RMC-1 is really quite stable now. One thing that has not been discussed so much is how great the unit sounds. I had my XMC-1 dialed in but somehow this unit sounds better even without Dirac. I have always been a two channel stereo guy for music but I would encourage everyone to try the new Dolby Surround up mixer for their two channel music sources. It does a fantastic job, especially on recordings that were performed in an actual acoustic space rather than the recording studio. Try the Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions. The old version or the remake. Spectacular. Or for crazy surround effects from 2 channels recorded in a studio try Roger Waters Amused to Death. Everything will be fixed. Most of it already has been. Relax and enjoy your music!
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Post by emofrmcgy on Feb 14, 2019 20:27:38 GMT -5
This line: LOUD NOISES WHEN ENTERING AND EXITING DSD MODE HAVE NOT BEEN COMPLETELY ELIMINATED. We recommend that you either avoid using DSD mode for now - or use it at your own risk. ...wish you had told me this when I bought it. Before I had to spend 450 bucks to fix a working subwoofer. Pm sent instead
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Post by bitbutcher on Feb 14, 2019 21:08:59 GMT -5
They basically just did that, sort of..read the release notes. Day late, dollar short. you are obviously very unhappy with your RMC-1. please send it back and get your refund. please put us out of your misery. no need to respond. it has all been said before and nothing new is to be added. Is he officially an owner?: ...yep. Has he been vocal?: ...yep. Does he make a valid point?: ...yep. Has he shared real issues with steps to reproduce and in many cases video evidence?: ...yep. Has his frustration sometimes shown through in his posts?: ...of course. Has he been toxic?: ...nope. If the people who've actually laid their hard earned money down for the RMC-1 cannot openly and honestly share their experiences in this thread without coming under fire from fanboys, why does it exist? We actually own the thing. We have skin in the game. We are spending our free time reporting issues and providing steps to reproduce instead of listening to music and watching movies because this was the Pre/Pro we all chose and still hope it can actually _be_ the Pre/Pro we all chose. I feel for the situation Lonnie and team find themselves in, but telling the guy to return his RMC-1 and take a hike shows no empathy whatsoever for the customers that are actually in the trenches with this thing. Anyone who doesn't want Emotiva and the RMC-1 to succeed would've already returned it by now. He hasn't. And that's enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt at least.
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Post by usxplong on Feb 14, 2019 21:20:38 GMT -5
you are obviously very unhappy with your RMC-1. please send it back and get your refund. please put us out of your misery. no need to respond. it has all been said before and nothing new is to be added. Is he officially an owner?: ...yep. Has he been vocal?: ...yep. Does he make a valid point?: ...yep. Has he shared real issues with steps to reproduce and in many cases video evidence?: ...yep. Has his frustration sometimes shown through in his posts?: ...of course. Has he been toxic?: ...nope. If the people who've actually laid their hard earned money down for the RMC-1 cannot openly and honestly share their experiences in this thread without coming under fire from fanboys, why does it exist? We actually own the thing. We have skin in the game. We are spending our free time reporting issues and providing steps to reproduce instead of listening to music and watching movies because this was the Pre/Pro we all chose and still hope it can actually _be_ the Pre/Pro we all chose. I feel for the situation Lonnie and team find themselves in, but telling the guy to return his RMC-1 and take a hike shows no empathy whatsoever for the customers that are actually in the trenches with this thing. Anyone who doesn't want Emotiva and the RMC-1 to succeed would've already returned it by now. He hasn't. And that's enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt at least. This is the problem with Emos chat boards from the start. You have to be fun boy and always show happiness doesn't matter what or you will get nasty responses, get banned or get 90% red warning like me. That is true even if Emo sold people just an empty cage which in the case of RMC-1 it almost is an empty cage.
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,509
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 14, 2019 22:16:42 GMT -5
***************************ALL MEMBERS READ BEFORE POSTING AGAIN*******************************
As a moderator I'd say the admin and other moderators are extremely patient and easy going. If we followed the Lounge Rules of Etiquette to the letter, quite a few of you would have already been banned(and several of you already have and found your way back on through a second account, which by the way is breaking a Lounge rule as well so if you find yourself banned again you'll already know why and I know who several of you are). I think Dan, Lonnie, Nick, & KeithL pretty much allow all members to say their peace but once you've said your peace, saying it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.............starts wearing a bit thin, gets old and it gets tiring reading the same old pot shots by the same offenders over and over again. So if you'd like for the moderators to moderate to the letter of the Lounge Rules, we can, but I think most if not all of you would agree, that being able to talk freely and speak your mind is a good thing, but being respectful needs to also be a part of every posting.
So, from this point on in this thread, if we feel you are just piling on, stirring the pot, repeating the same old same old, not adding anything new or just plain old taking a pot shot to be negative, We're going to delete your post and you'll get one warning and one warning only, after that you'll get a free vacation off the Lounge for an undisclosed amount of time. If you can't stay on subject in this thread, we'll ask you to move your conservation elsewhere and delete all off-topic posts without warning. We're all adults here, so if you can and will act accordingly you are more than welcome to post your ON-TOPIC posts, if not then simply don't post as it will have a direct bearing on whether you'll be posting in the future. The Lounge Rules of Etiquette are now in full effect in this thread, if you don't know them or aren't familiar with them, then re-read them and become familiar with them. They have been copied below so no excuses.
To those of you that have been contributing to the improvement of the RMC-1 firmware and discussing said bugs/problems like responsible adults, I apologize for my long-winded post and will try, moving forward in this thread, keeping the off-topic clutter to a minimum.
Thank you for every members cooperation.
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 14, 2019 23:09:13 GMT -5
If you paid attention to my posts you would know that my feeling is exactly the opposite of your characterization. I'm just stating the obvious that it wasn't ready for prime time. I'm trying to become an Emo fanboy, but not quite there. Once the RMC is rock solid, I'll be there guaranteed. I believe he was replying to Mikoz, not you.
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Post by teaman on Feb 14, 2019 23:43:24 GMT -5
I deleted my last post, I won't come into this thread again. Good luck to all of the RMC-1 owners.
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Post by tridentsx on Feb 15, 2019 2:24:08 GMT -5
I don't think that a video processor is needed, most HDMI tranceivers or transmitters has builtin h/w functionality to do this, I dont know what chipsets are used in RMC-1 but since its a reference peice I would be surprised if they didnt use best available. Still even alpha bleneding and resolutionframerate mapping is not that hard you make an abstraction that hides that and a single OSD implementation on top. How hard can it be to make the s/w for the OSD ? I am not sure what h/w is inside this machine but most HDMI transmitters has OSD support builin inthe h.w. Get an intern pay him $15 and he will do it in 3 months. The RMC-1 doesn't have a video processor so it doesn't have the power to video process large resolutions. I think this post explains what the problems pretty good. Most of your smaller companies don't do OSD because of the complexity. Now the Asian companies choose to jump out of live video and generate OSD over a blank screen. This is a lot easier way to get it because you don't have to do any Alpha blending, resolution matching or frame rate matching. Basically you just generate OSD at 480 and it gets sent into one of the HDMI inputs like any other input except its done internally. The last option is to do full frame rate and resolution matching and then alpha blend it over live video which is what we currently do. Now whether or not this will be possible as the HDMI standard changes again and we move to 8K is unknown. That will mostly be determined by what chips sets are available and what their capabilities are. As of right now there are only three companies working on any kind of 8K switch and basic OSD is still up in the air. One option to consider is putting a fully graphic display on the unit itself. This display would show all pertinent info and allow for easy navigation of the menu from a local state. Couple that with an app that is basically a duplicate of what is on the unit and you have full functionality. In its normal state you could have the option to display basic information in a very large format. That is to say, volume trims and such when adjusted would pop up on the unit in very large text that could be seen from across the room and after a second or two, fade out (if that option was chosen). What I see here from the replies is that OSD is subjective to the individuals needs (not surprising). Some say it has to have it, others say it doesn't matter but the one thing that is clear. All would like clear feedback in one form or another as long as it was clear and easy to read when they wanted it. Another thing I have noticed is that the vast majority are opposed to going with a full touch screen. Virtually all would like to have a mechanical volume control at the bare minimum. The difference between what we do now which is a $50 multi-access encoder, which is perceived as being cheap and a basic rotary volume control is drag. If it spins to easy, it is perceived as being cheap. So the take a way here is add drag so it feels heavy. The other take a way here is while people want tactile feedback from physical buttons, an audible click is also perceived as being cheap. All good information for the future. Lonnie
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Post by mikoz on Feb 15, 2019 12:09:25 GMT -5
This is my swan song.
The reason why I’ve brought up my issue (to date, it seems I’m the only one confirmed to have a casualty due to the rmc1) is because I’ve not only brought it up here, I’ve emailed emotiva many times. I get no answers. In fact it took 6 emails and 2 phone calls to even get My broken remotes replaced. We/I went from being told “that can’t happen” (meaning destroying a sub) to now a disclaimer about using at your own risk. So obviously now Emotiva knows it can be a real problem. Yet I still get no replies about a resolution. The only thing I ever got was an email weeks ago saying they’d look into it.
So now basically I was made to look silly initially by even suggesting that such a thing could happen...there were many emails defending the product saying it was impossible...to a soft admission it’s a real problem. And to top it off no one from Emotiva will reply with a plan if resolution.
I bought the thing. Imagine how I feel about that. Yes I know you don’t want to hear it. So as mentioned this is it.... I guess my red 90% goes to 100....
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Post by emofrmcgy on Feb 15, 2019 12:21:31 GMT -5
This is my swan song. The reason why I’ve brought up my issue (to date, it seems I’m the only one confirmed to have a casualty due to the rmc1) is because I’ve not only brought it up here, I’ve emailed emotiva many times. I get no answers. In fact it took 6 emails and 2 phone calls to even get My broken remotes replaced. We/I went from being told “that can’t happen” (meaning destroying a sub) to now a disclaimer about using at your own risk. So obviously now Emotiva knows it can be a real problem. Yet I still get no replies about a resolution. The only thing I ever got was an email weeks ago saying they’d look into it. So now basically I was made to look silly initially by even suggesting that such a thing could happen...there were many emails defending the product saying it was impossible...to a soft admission it’s a real problem. And to top it off no one from Emotiva will reply with a plan if resolution. I bought the thing. Imagine how I feel about that. Yes I know you don’t want to hear it. So as mentioned this is it.... I guess my red 90% goes to 100.... Thank you for answering my question.
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Post by fbczar on Feb 15, 2019 12:38:35 GMT -5
This is my swan song. The reason why I’ve brought up my issue (to date, it seems I’m the only one confirmed to have a casualty due to the rmc1) is because I’ve not only brought it up here, I’ve emailed emotiva many times. I get no answers. In fact it took 6 emails and 2 phone calls to even get My broken remotes replaced. We/I went from being told “that can’t happen” (meaning destroying a sub) to now a disclaimer about using at your own risk. So obviously now Emotiva knows it can be a real problem. Yet I still get no replies about a resolution. The only thing I ever got was an email weeks ago saying they’d look into it. So now basically I was made to look silly initially by even suggesting that such a thing could happen...there were many emails defending the product saying it was impossible...to a soft admission it’s a real problem. And to top it off no one from Emotiva will reply with a plan if resolution. I bought the thing. Imagine how I feel about that. Yes I know you don’t want to hear it. So as mentioned this is it.... I guess my red 90% goes to 100.... So Emotiva released the RMC-1 knowing knowing the use of DSD could result in catastrophic damage to connected equipment? Emotiva should reimburse you for the repair of your subwoofer . If they do not you should let all of us know.
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Delco
Minor Hero
Posts: 72
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Post by Delco on Feb 15, 2019 13:26:40 GMT -5
Upgraded to the latest firmware yesterday. I already noticed better hdmi syncing, no audio drops when playing back stereo. Just got new 805 D3 front stage and I have never had a system sound so amazing. I can’t believe it sounds so good and the speakers are not even broken in!!!!Thank you guys from Emotiva, much respect for all the hard work and dedication.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Feb 15, 2019 14:36:47 GMT -5
I've been doing some research on DSD Audio over HDMI and it looks like this was standardized in HDMI 1.2 where DSD present is indicated in the Audio Information Frame along with Sample Frequency. See slides 15 and 16 of this report by John Dawson from the 24th AES UK Conference from June 2011. Lonnie , again please pardon any newbie non-HDMI expertise on my part, I found an archived copy of the HDMI 1.2 specification dated November 10, 2006. On page 110 we have: [[ Please pardon any mistakes in the transcription of the quote above — Cut-and-Paste refused to work on the archived PDF on my computer. ]] Section 8.2.2 starting on page 115 seems to be the crux of the biscuit and has the following language ([[ also with possible transcription errors ]]): It's interesting to see that DST Audio is also mentioned in the above ... Maybe ewiles could help in navigating the standards? Though I think his expertise may lay more in video ... Casey
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 15, 2019 14:50:16 GMT -5
again please pardon any newbie non-HDMI expertise on my part, Now Casey - less pestering of Lonnie with your non-expertise and more writing of your superb recaps of podcasts, now that there's a new one.
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Post by mikoz on Feb 15, 2019 15:14:02 GMT -5
This is my swan song. The reason why I’ve brought up my issue (to date, it seems I’m the only one confirmed to have a casualty due to the rmc1) is because I’ve not only brought it up here, I’ve emailed emotiva many times. I get no answers. In fact it took 6 emails and 2 phone calls to even get My broken remotes replaced. We/I went from being told “that can’t happen” (meaning destroying a sub) to now a disclaimer about using at your own risk. So obviously now Emotiva knows it can be a real problem. Yet I still get no replies about a resolution. The only thing I ever got was an email weeks ago saying they’d look into it. So now basically I was made to look silly initially by even suggesting that such a thing could happen...there were many emails defending the product saying it was impossible...to a soft admission it’s a real problem. And to top it off no one from Emotiva will reply with a plan if resolution. I bought the thing. Imagine how I feel about that. Yes I know you don’t want to hear it. So as mentioned this is it.... I guess my red 90% goes to 100.... So Emotiva released the RMC-1 knowing knowing the use of DSD could result in catastrophic damage to connected equipment? Emotiva should reimburse you for the repair of your subwoofer . If they do not you should let all of us know. Lonnie emailed me asking for details today. When the incident happened the sunfire tga7401 turned off (but came back to life with a reset) and the JL was fried. I find it extremely hard to believe this wasn’t a problem from the rmc1 when one component turned off and another was fried...both connected to the rmc1. When JL audio services a sub they don’t just replace what’s broken, they basically bring it up to the latest Eng version and replace any worn parts like the driver. In my case the sub was in excellent condition with very little low stress hours. Oh well.. if you have more questions you can email me, if I’m not banned from the site. I have a feeling continuing the dialog will just piss off more people. Everyone should go back to talking about the good stuff.
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