Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 15, 2019 15:39:43 GMT -5
I've been doing some research on DSD Audio over HDMI and it looks like this was standardized in HDMI 1.2 where DSD present is indicated in the Audio Information Frame along with Sample Frequency. See slides 15 and 16 of this report by John Dawson from the 24th AES UK Conference from June 2011. Lonnie , again please pardon any newbie non-HDMI expertise on my part, I found an archived copy of the HDMI 1.2 specification dated November 10, 2006. On page 110 we have: [[ Please pardon any mistakes in the transcription of the quote above — Cut-and-Paste refused to work on the archived PDF on my computer. ]] Section 8.2.2 starting on page 115 seems to be the crux of the biscuit and has the following language ([[ also with possible transcription errors ]]): It's interesting to see that DST Audio is also mentioned in the above ... Maybe ewiles could help in navigating the standards? Though I think his expertise may lay more in video ... Casey Hey Casey You are correct, in the older CEA-861 docs these fields were defined and were widely used. Unfortunately the latest addendum to the 861 spec now specifies all those wonderfully useful fields to be set to null. I truly wish they were still supported. Would make life so much easier. "The Audio InfoFrame, The Audio InfoFrame CT (coding type), SS (sample size) and SF (sample frequency) fields are required to be 0 (“Refer to Stream Header”) to avoid redundancy with the same data already contained within the IEC 60958 stream data." Unfortunately the "Burst Data" streams for DSD on virtually all source units is null. Lonnie
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Post by Casey Leedom on Feb 15, 2019 15:55:02 GMT -5
(sigh) That's too bad. Well, back to the drawing board ...
Casey
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Post by goozoo on Feb 15, 2019 16:37:02 GMT -5
Thank you Lonnie and the team for their continued efforts on the RMC-1. Now that you have been able to duplicate the DTS issues, I am hoping that a fix is on the immediate horizon given that virtually 75% of all BD is recorded in DTS-HDMA. What did not make sense in the release notes was whether or not the loud weeeeha sound was eliminated from DTS playback or still exists. Perhaps someone who has updated their unit can chime in. The fact that it occurs at random points during playback is what is most alarming as it may damage equipment if listening at references levels.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 15, 2019 16:41:52 GMT -5
So Emotiva released the RMC-1 knowing knowing the use of DSD could result in catastrophic damage to connected equipment? Emotiva should reimburse you for the repair of your subwoofer . If they do not you should let all of us know. Lonnie emailed me asking for details today. When the incident happened the sunfire tga7401 turned off (but came back to life with a reset) and the JL was fried. I find it extremely hard to believe this wasn’t a problem from the rmc1 when one component turned off and another was fried...both connected to the rmc1. When JL audio services a sub they don’t just replace what’s broken, they basically bring it up to the latest Eng version and replace any worn parts like the driver. In my case the sub was in excellent condition with very little low stress hours. Oh well.. if you have more questions you can email me, if I’m not banned from the site. I have a feeling continuing the dialog will just piss off more people. Everyone should go back to talking about the good stuff. I'm glad to hear you heard from Lonnie today. I hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction. If I were in your situation, I would also think that the RMC-1 created the problem that caused the sub failure, especially knowing what we know now about how DSD can create issues for the DSP's. Mark
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Post by bryanzim on Feb 15, 2019 18:42:54 GMT -5
When I was setting up the RMC-1 using the 1.0 firmware, I also had an incident that could have caused major speaker damage but thankfully everything seems to still be OK. When I was assigning the CEC ARC to an input button in the menu, an extremely loud noise occurred, white I think, even though there was actually nothing even on the CEC ARC channel at the time and the CEC ARC channel was not selected. The noise actually tripped the 2000 Watt UPS used to power the stereo system. Now I should have noticed that the volume was set at 0 from the factory even though in reality will always be significantly lower at normal usage.
Once I verified nothing blew up, I finished setting up the system. But there were a couple times where CEC ARC channel would still cause white noise or nothing and required a power on/off of the unit. Had it not been for the UPS trip then I dread would could have happened.
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Post by audiovideojunky on Feb 16, 2019 11:47:12 GMT -5
Thank you Lonnie and the team for their continued efforts on the RMC-1. Now that you have been able to duplicate the DTS issues, I am hoping that a fix is on the immediate horizon given that virtually 75% of all BD is recorded in DTS-HDMA. What did not make sense in the release notes was whether or not the loud weeeeha sound was eliminated from DTS playback or still exists. Perhaps someone who has updated their unit can chime in. The fact that it occurs at random points during playback is what is most alarming as it may damage equipment if listening at references levels. Yeah, I was puzzled by the 1.2 release notes not mentioning the whaaaa noise and a couple other things that the BETA 1.11.4 release notes took credit for:
- DSP freezes and produces system clock noise.
- Over all system stability.
- Slow response time.
I think the DSP freeze above is the whaaaa noise. I haven't heard it in either 1.11.4 or 1.2, so I'm pretty comfy saying it's fixed at this point. 1.11.4 & 1.2 are also MUCH more stable and responsive than previous releases (nice work Emotiva!), but the 1.2 release notes doesn't seem to take credit for those either. The wording is pretty different between the 1.11.4 & 1.2 release notes, but it appears 1.2 covers most of the other issues. Perhaps Emotiva can clarify?
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Post by jonas79 on Feb 16, 2019 12:08:50 GMT -5
Thank you Lonnie and the team for their continued efforts on the RMC-1. Now that you have been able to duplicate the DTS issues, I am hoping that a fix is on the immediate horizon given that virtually 75% of all BD is recorded in DTS-HDMA. What did not make sense in the release notes was whether or not the loud weeeeha sound was eliminated from DTS playback or still exists. Perhaps someone who has updated their unit can chime in. The fact that it occurs at random points during playback is what is most alarming as it may damage equipment if listening at references levels. Yeah, I was puzzled by the 1.2 release notes not mentioning the whaaaa noise and a couple other things that the BETA 1.11.4 release notes took credit for:
- DSP freezes and produces system clock noise.
- Over all system stability.
- Slow response time.
I think the DSP freeze above is the whaaaa noise. I haven't heard it in either 1.11.4 or 1.2, so I'm pretty comfy saying it's fixed at this point. 1.11.4 & 1.2 are also MUCH more stable and responsive than previous releases (nice work Emotiva!), but the 1.2 release notes doesn't seem to take credit for those either. The wording is pretty different between the 1.11.4 & 1.2 release notes, but it appears 1.2 covers most of the other issues. Perhaps Emotiva can clarify?
Listen to the newest podcast you can hear its alot of fixes in 1.2 Release to many to take up everything in detail. Very big update and importent to install also they sayed.
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Post by audiovideojunky on Feb 16, 2019 12:32:46 GMT -5
So I've spent the last couple of evenings with my RMC at release 1.2, and am extremely pleased with how stable and responsive it is, and how truly FABULOUS it looks and sounds. I had a Krell HTS 7.1 processor previously, and this unit sounds markedly better, particularly in the bass and surround channels. I know I'm not comparing apples with apples here since the Krell was old and didn't process ATMOS, etc., but Krell sets the bar high, and Emotiva has clearly surpassed it. Well done!!!
At this point, the only issues I've noticed with my RMC using release 1.2 are as follows:
- Audio "glitches" that appear like clockwork every 8 minutes, 30 seconds and last maybe 1/2 second. I will gladly provide more info on source materials & settings if needed, but the "glitches" seem to happen universally with all media in all audio settings that I've tried (Oppo UDP-205 to play Blurays, and Xbox 1X to play games and stream Netflix & Amazon Prime). I've also noticed that these "glitches" are sometimes audio drop-outs, and sometimes short chirps, etc. The noise that first occurs seems to repeat until I reboot the unit, at which point it may change to a different noise (or silence). I haven't yet encountered a noise that I would be overly concerned would damage anything, but can't say it couldn't occur.
- The RMC seemed to take "a while" to synchronize with both my Xbox and Oppo after I first installed both 1.11.4 and 1.2 (and yes, I unplugged all HDMI gear, etc. per instructions). I didn't get audio or video for perhaps 10-15 minutes, during which time I tried scratching my head, swapping HDMI cables, and rebooting source components. I can't say why, but then suddenly the RMC synchronized and has been rock-solid since. Not a big deal, just had me puzzled for a bit.
In closing, I just wanted to say that I'm thrilled that Emotiva has a forum like this, and that they actually take the time to listen and get involved. It is a privilege and an honor to have a place where we can share our problems, suggestions, and successes with the team responsible for engineering and evolving a product like this. Thanks, Emotiva, for giving us this opportunity!
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Post by lrobertson on Feb 16, 2019 12:48:10 GMT -5
I’m disappointed they didn’t announce a beta 11.1.8 demo for Axpona. I hope to see an update on what to expect with this ability soon with an updated eta.
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Post by Mr. Robot on Feb 16, 2019 17:44:28 GMT -5
Emo, Something else to look into...since FW 1.1.11 when I play audio from an Nvidia Shield (PCM 2.0 or 5.1) to the RMC regardless of processing mode (Dolby Surround, Stereo, All Stereo, DTS Neural:X) I get an audio drop every 3-4min without exception. I have tried 2 different Shield devices and played audio fromm Plex, Amazon Music, and Pandora, and the symptom is exactly the same. If I play the same Shield with the same HDMI cable and all the exact same settings through a Pioneer SC-LX90 receiver, no dropouts in any of those same apps. Shield is connected via ethernet in both instances. I'd love to know if any other users can recreate this scenario? Attachments:
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Post by Mr. Robot on Feb 16, 2019 18:19:08 GMT -5
Shield Volume control is Fixed CEC - Off Comfort Noise - Off No Upmix on Shield System Sounds - Off Changed Shield output resolution from auto 4K 59.940Hz to Fixed 4K 60Hz, 4K 50Hz, 4K 23.976Hz, and 1080p 59.940Hz - Same results Turned of System Sounds - Same Results
Side note: My RMC was shipped with FW v1.1.4 and I streamed audio from my shield for hours without issue.
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 16, 2019 18:54:43 GMT -5
So I've spent the last couple of evenings with my RMC at release 1.2, and am extremely pleased with how stable and responsive it is, and how truly FABULOUS it looks and sounds. I had a Krell HTS 7.1 processor previously, and this unit sounds markedly better, particularly in the bass and surround channels. I know I'm not comparing apples with apples here since the Krell was old and didn't process ATMOS, etc., but Krell sets the bar high, and Emotiva has clearly surpassed it. Well done!!!
At this point, the only issues I've noticed with my RMC using release 1.2 are as follows:
- Audio "glitches" that appear like clockwork every 8 minutes, 30 seconds and last maybe 1/2 second. I will gladly provide more info on source materials & settings if needed, but the "glitches" seem to happen universally with all media in all audio settings that I've tried (Oppo UDP-205 to play Blurays, and Xbox 1X to play games and stream Netflix & Amazon Prime). I've also noticed that these "glitches" are sometimes audio drop-outs, and sometimes short chirps, etc. The noise that first occurs seems to repeat until I reboot the unit, at which point it may change to a different noise (or silence). I haven't yet encountered a noise that I would be overly concerned would damage anything, but can't say it couldn't occur.
- The RMC seemed to take "a while" to synchronize with both my Xbox and Oppo after I first installed both 1.11.4 and 1.2 (and yes, I unplugged all HDMI gear, etc. per instructions). I didn't get audio or video for perhaps 10-15 minutes, during which time I tried scratching my head, swapping HDMI cables, and rebooting source components. I can't say why, but then suddenly the RMC synchronized and has been rock-solid since. Not a big deal, just had me puzzled for a bit.
In closing, I just wanted to say that I'm thrilled that Emotiva has a forum like this, and that they actually take the time to listen and get involved. It is a privilege and an honor to have a place where we can share our problems, suggestions, and successes with the team responsible for engineering and evolving a product like this. Thanks, Emotiva, for giving us this opportunity!
Thank you for the feedback. Yes, we are trying to get the bottom of the 1/2 second drop but it is been pretty elusive so far. Just as an experiment do you have two video units. I.e. TV and projector? If so, would you try unplugging the HDMI from one of them and see if it remains? I’m curious to know if we may be dealing with a periodic EDID ping from a second video processor. If you wouldn’t mind, I would appreciate it. Thanks, Lonnie
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Lonnie
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Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 16, 2019 19:04:04 GMT -5
So I've spent the last couple of evenings with my RMC at release 1.2, and am extremely pleased with how stable and responsive it is, and how truly FABULOUS it looks and sounds. I had a Krell HTS 7.1 processor previously, and this unit sounds markedly better, particularly in the bass and surround channels. I know I'm not comparing apples with apples here since the Krell was old and didn't process ATMOS, etc., but Krell sets the bar high, and Emotiva has clearly surpassed it. Well done!!!
At this point, the only issues I've noticed with my RMC using release 1.2 are as follows:
- Audio "glitches" that appear like clockwork every 8 minutes, 30 seconds and last maybe 1/2 second. I will gladly provide more info on source materials & settings if needed, but the "glitches" seem to happen universally with all media in all audio settings that I've tried (Oppo UDP-205 to play Blurays, and Xbox 1X to play games and stream Netflix & Amazon Prime). I've also noticed that these "glitches" are sometimes audio drop-outs, and sometimes short chirps, etc. The noise that first occurs seems to repeat until I reboot the unit, at which point it may change to a different noise (or silence). I haven't yet encountered a noise that I would be overly concerned would damage anything, but can't say it couldn't occur.
- The RMC seemed to take "a while" to synchronize with both my Xbox and Oppo after I first installed both 1.11.4 and 1.2 (and yes, I unplugged all HDMI gear, etc. per instructions). I didn't get audio or video for perhaps 10-15 minutes, during which time I tried scratching my head, swapping HDMI cables, and rebooting source components. I can't say why, but then suddenly the RMC synchronized and has been rock-solid since. Not a big deal, just had me puzzled for a bit.
In closing, I just wanted to say that I'm thrilled that Emotiva has a forum like this, and that they actually take the time to listen and get involved. It is a privilege and an honor to have a place where we can share our problems, suggestions, and successes with the team responsible for engineering and evolving a product like this. Thanks, Emotiva, for giving us this opportunity!
You know, I just had another thought. Do you have CEC turned on? If so, would you turn CEC off on all devices and see if that makes any difference. Thanks, Lonnie
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Post by Mr. Robot on Feb 16, 2019 20:34:14 GMT -5
More interesting experiments today. After fighting with 2.0 audio on my Shield I decided to play Ready Player One through Plex on my Shield. Source MKV is bit for bit copy of Blu-ray 1080p with Dolby Atmos. Audio was complete static. Same situation with First Man.
These movies played perfectly prior to v1.1.11. So I rolled firmware back to v1.1.4. and movie audio registers as Atmos and plays perfectly.
Updated FW back to 1.2 and static returns.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Feb 16, 2019 20:47:17 GMT -5
More interesting experiments today. After fighting with 2.0 audio on my Shield I decided to play Ready Player One through Plex on my Shield. Source MKV is bit for bit copy of Blu-ray 1080p with Dolby Atmos. Audio was complete static. Same situation with First Man. These movies played perfectly prior to v1.1.11. So I rolled firmware back to v1.1.4. and movie audio registers as Atmos and plays perfectly. Updated FW back to 1.2 and static returns. Do you also have the 5.1 dts master tracks from those movies copied as well ? Is it just the atmos track that is giving issues ? Do you have another media player to try and see if it’s from the shield?
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 16, 2019 20:50:49 GMT -5
More interesting experiments today. After fighting with 2.0 audio on my Shield I decided to play Ready Player One through Plex on my Shield. Source MKV is bit for bit copy of Blu-ray 1080p with Dolby Atmos. Audio was complete static. Same situation with First Man. These movies played perfectly prior to v1.1.11. So I rolled firmware back to v1.1.4. and movie audio registers as Atmos and plays perfectly. Updated FW back to 1.2 and static returns. What happens when you play the physical media on a blueray player? Lonnie
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Post by Mr. Robot on Feb 16, 2019 21:01:25 GMT -5
More interesting experiments today. After fighting with 2.0 audio on my Shield I decided to play Ready Player One through Plex on my Shield. Source MKV is bit for bit copy of Blu-ray 1080p with Dolby Atmos. Audio was complete static. Same situation with First Man. These movies played perfectly prior to v1.1.11. So I rolled firmware back to v1.1.4. and movie audio registers as Atmos and plays perfectly. Updated FW back to 1.2 and static returns. Do you also have the 5.1 dts master tracks from those movies copied as well ? Is it just the atmos track that is giving issues ? Do you have another media player to try and see if it’s from the shield? DTS 5.1MA track on the same MKV also has static. I have 2 Shields, but not a different brand player. What is so crazy is that these movies play fine on the 1.1.4 firmware.
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Post by Mr. Robot on Feb 16, 2019 21:05:47 GMT -5
More interesting experiments today. After fighting with 2.0 audio on my Shield I decided to play Ready Player One through Plex on my Shield. Source MKV is bit for bit copy of Blu-ray 1080p with Dolby Atmos. Audio was complete static. Same situation with First Man. These movies played perfectly prior to v1.1.11. So I rolled firmware back to v1.1.4. and movie audio registers as Atmos and plays perfectly. Updated FW back to 1.2 and static returns. What happens when you play the physical media on a blueray player? Lonnie Physical media (blu-ray 1080p) in Oppo-203 plays Atmos and DTS fine. And 4K UHD plays Atmos fine. I get that it's something related to the Shield, but it works fine when RMC is on v1.1.4 from shield so that is a strange step back.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Feb 16, 2019 21:12:34 GMT -5
Do you also have the 5.1 dts master tracks from those movies copied as well ? Is it just the atmos track that is giving issues ? Do you have another media player to try and see if it’s from the shield? DTS 5.1MA track on the same MKV also has static. I have 2 Shields, but not a different brand player. What is so crazy is that these movies play fine on the 1.1.4 firmware. Can you access the mkv file via the network on the oppo ? Do your other movies play fine ?
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Post by Mr. Robot on Feb 16, 2019 21:37:14 GMT -5
DTS 5.1MA track on the same MKV also has static. I have 2 Shields, but not a different brand player. What is so crazy is that these movies play fine on the 1.1.4 firmware. Can you access the mkv file via the network on the oppo ? Do your other movies play fine ? Playing mkv through Oppo from my Plex media share, the Dolby track shows English MLP 7.1 on Oppo and PCM 7.1 on RMC, Plays audio, but it's not Atmos. I get no audio from DTS-MA 5.1 this way, None of my movies with DTS-MA or Dolby Atmos play through Plex app on my Shield any more....they all worked before and i can get them to work today if I just roll back to 1.1.4.
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