Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 27, 2019 16:32:50 GMT -5
Just to clear the air here. Yes, Dolby has lifted the restrictions for post processing Dolby encoded material. So what does this actually mean? Well, we were always able to write our own code for up and down mixing, that was never restricted. What was restricted was applying a 3rd party up or down mixer to Dolby encoded material. For example, applying DTS over a Dolby encoded stream. So now that restriction is lifted but hold on, it's not really that simple. While the legal restrictions may be lifted, what is embedded within the firmware is tightly woven into the architecture of the system. So it's not just a matter of commenting out a few lines of code, it goes way deeper. The bottom line here is simply this, we will dig into it but it's a long process and needs to be tested carefully to make sure we don't break things as we go. I hope this helps to clear things up and not make them more confusing. Lonnie Lonnie. if I may ask, what was the reasoning on locking out the Dolby surround upmixer on DTS encoded 5.1/7.1 content? That was never required by DTS and I don't think Dolby restricted the use of their upmixer on other codecs. You are correct, that was not an official requirement. The reason we did it had more to do with being proactive. During a meeting with DTS I was told that they may go down the same road. So rather then have to rebuild a lot of code, we just did it from the start. As it turns out, they never implemented that requirement. Now that Dolby has reversed their position on this, I do not see DTS requiring it. If we have to go and rewrite firmware, we will just do it for both. Lonnie
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Post by lrobertson on Aug 27, 2019 16:34:25 GMT -5
Makes sense to have the updated firmware rollout with the channel expansion abilities.. so another month or two?? Any info on DTS:X Pro or Dolby working towards 28 channels?
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 27, 2019 16:36:08 GMT -5
Makes sense to have the updated firmware rollout with the channel expansion abilities.. so another month or two?? Any info on DTS:X Pro or Dolby working towards 28 channels? Nothing that I can divulge at this time. Lonnie
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Post by lukewayne on Aug 27, 2019 16:51:27 GMT -5
Hi Guys, I had a weird occurrence yesterday, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had something similar.
Apologies if this answer exists somewhere in the 206 pages of this thread, I tried some searching and didn't see anything.
I'm on FW 1.5 RMC-1 set to video stays on standby.
I turned on devices as per usual with harmony remote activity to watch a 4k UHD Blu-ray disc and when the disk played its Paramount logo video before the menu I got extremely loud static from all channels over the actual soundtrack. I ran to the volume knob and turned it way down as fast as I could. My RMC boots at -40.0 volume every time, so that was where the volume was at the time of the loud static. I had to get it down to -80.0 before I could hear myself think and power cycle the RMC by holding standby button.
Normal performance after power cycle.
The sound coming out of all the speakers sounded like I had the volume set to 0, but it was clearly at -40.
Anybody have anything like this happen?
Thanks, Luke
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Post by TDifEQ on Aug 27, 2019 17:05:07 GMT -5
Hi Guys, I had a weird occurrence yesterday, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had something similar. Apologies if this answer exists somewhere in the 206 pages of this thread, I tried some searching and didn't see anything. I'm on FW 1.5 RMC-1 set to video stays on standby. I turned on devices as per usual with harmony remote activity to watch a 4k UHD Blu-ray disc and when the disk played its Paramount logo video before the menu I got extremely loud static from all channels over the actual soundtrack.I ran to the volume knob and turned it way down as fast as I could. My RMC boots at -40.0 volume every time, so that was where the volume was at the time of the loud static. I had to get it down to -80.0 before I could hear myself think and power cycle the RMC by holding standby button. Normal performance after power cycle. The sound coming out of all the speakers sounded like I had the volume set to 0, but it was clearly at -40. Anybody have anything like this happen? Thanks, Luke Happened 3 times in 1.4. Now it's happened in 1.5. 1. Happened at power up. 2. Audio Only 3. Low Power standby 4. Check previous posts under tdifeq around ~8/14 for config details.
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 27, 2019 17:11:00 GMT -5
Hi Guys, I had a weird occurrence yesterday, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had something similar. Apologies if this answer exists somewhere in the 206 pages of this thread, I tried some searching and didn't see anything. I'm on FW 1.5 RMC-1 set to video stays on standby. I turned on devices as per usual with harmony remote activity to watch a 4k UHD Blu-ray disc and when the disk played its Paramount logo video before the menu I got extremely loud static from all channels over the actual soundtrack.I ran to the volume knob and turned it way down as fast as I could. My RMC boots at -40.0 volume every time, so that was where the volume was at the time of the loud static. I had to get it down to -80.0 before I could hear myself think and power cycle the RMC by holding standby button. Normal performance after power cycle. The sound coming out of all the speakers sounded like I had the volume set to 0, but it was clearly at -40. Anybody have anything like this happen? Thanks, Luke Hmmmm...........That one is difficult to isolate. Do you know what format the opening sequence was and what format preceded it? Lonnie
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 27, 2019 17:12:49 GMT -5
Hi Guys, I had a weird occurrence yesterday, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had something similar. Apologies if this answer exists somewhere in the 206 pages of this thread, I tried some searching and didn't see anything. I'm on FW 1.5 RMC-1 set to video stays on standby. I turned on devices as per usual with harmony remote activity to watch a 4k UHD Blu-ray disc and when the disk played its Paramount logo video before the menu I got extremely loud static from all channels over the actual soundtrack.I ran to the volume knob and turned it way down as fast as I could. My RMC boots at -40.0 volume every time, so that was where the volume was at the time of the loud static. I had to get it down to -80.0 before I could hear myself think and power cycle the RMC by holding standby button. Normal performance after power cycle. The sound coming out of all the speakers sounded like I had the volume set to 0, but it was clearly at -40. Anybody have anything like this happen? Thanks, Luke Happened 3 times in 1.4. Now it's happened in 1.5. 1. Happened at power up. 2. Auto Only 3. Low Power standby 4. Check previous posts under tdifeq around ~8/14 for config details. Interesting. So for you it did it on power up. Do you happen to know what was being sent into the processor when it happened? Thanks Lonnie
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Post by TDifEQ on Aug 27, 2019 18:18:21 GMT -5
Yesterday, ran into Loud Buzz at Start Up for the second time. -FM 1.4. -Start Up from Low Power Standby. -RMC-1 was in Audio Only mode. Turned RMC-1 off/on then no more issue. Now, I'll have to only turn on 1 amp that is driving 1 set of speakers to see if the Loud Buzz is there at start up. The Buzz is very loud ... but not full throttle loud. Config: 4K Avengers End Game disc, DD_True_HD/ATMOS, 1080p/24 8bits RGB 444 SDR (disc)OPPO203/Audio_Only_Out ---> Input1/RMC-1 (disc)OPPO203/Main_V/A_Out ---> Input1/LG_C8_77"_OLED View AttachmentView Attachment Second post on Loud Buzz at Start Up. Pics are missing. Need to go to original post to see pics. lonnie
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Post by nospam on Aug 27, 2019 18:56:31 GMT -5
Just to clear the air here. Yes, Dolby has lifted the restrictions for post processing Dolby encoded material. So what does this actually mean? Well, we were always able to write our own code for up and down mixing, that was never restricted. What was restricted was applying a 3rd party up or down mixer to Dolby encoded material. For example, applying DTS over a Dolby encoded stream. So now that restriction is lifted but hold on, it's not really that simple. While the legal restrictions may be lifted, what is embedded within the firmware is tightly woven into the architecture of the system. So it's not just a matter of commenting out a few lines of code, it goes way deeper. The bottom line here is simply this, we will dig into it but it's a long process and needs to be tested carefully to make sure we don't break things as we go. I hope this helps to clear things up and not make them more confusing. I fear you have no choice since apparently, Emotiva may be the only company enforcing the former restriction. It will take time to un-unfudge it. - Rich Lyngdorf MP-50 and McIntosh MX-160 are enforcing it. I do believe it will be a simple fix for them since they did not always enforce it. Whatever happened to the Emotiva 9.1.6 upmixer Big Dan said was in development? Scrapped or on-hold?
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Post by TDifEQ on Aug 27, 2019 19:25:07 GMT -5
Running 1.4. Last night, powered up the RMC-1 and got Loud static from all speakers. Turned unit off, then powered back up. Went back to normal. RMC-1 was set to -40dB upon start up ... this was much louder than -40dB ... it was like "holy crap ... power down NOW!". Maybe this is a Audio Only issue or just a random issue? This has only happened once before ... probably FM 1.2 ... so it's rare. 8/13/19 EDIT: Actually, this happened on 5/6/19 (FM1.3, not FM1.2) with 8 sec buzz on all speakers and 5 bells followed by 1 bell. Still rare. Config: (disc)/OPPO203/Audio_Only ---> Input1/RMC-1 (disc)/OPPO203/Main_V/A ---> Input1/LG C8 77" OLED 4K 13 Hours 2160p/DV DD_True_HD/ATMOS lonnieFirst post on Loud Buzz at Power Up. Happened a third time in 1.4 ... did not post info because 1.5 was just released ... hoping this was fixed in 1.5.
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Post by bblv on Aug 27, 2019 21:38:44 GMT -5
Makes sense to have the updated firmware rollout with the channel expansion abilities.. so another month or two?? Any info on DTS:X Pro or Dolby working towards 28 channels? Nothing that I can divulge at this time. Lonnie Excited to finally see what you guys unveil for RMC-1 channel expansion (i.e. expansion modules and upmixing to utilize all connected speakers), but I'm confused - I thought Emo's reasoning for dropping the Emo upmixer was this now-lifted Dolby restriction...
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Post by lrobertson on Aug 27, 2019 21:47:13 GMT -5
Nothing that I can divulge at this time. Lonnie Excited to finally see what you guys unveil for RMC-1 channel expansion (i.e. expansion modules and upmixing to utilize all connected speakers), but I'm confused - I thought Emo's reasoning for dropping the Emo upmixer was this now-lifted Dolby restriction... They were always allowed to make a 3rd party proprietary system. Dolby just restricted commercial upmixers. I could be wrong but the way I read into it was what Mark was mentioning that they were letting on to developments being under NDA and they decided it would make anything they could do obsolete so they are just letting Dolby or DTS do their thing until they can release the expansion bays with them. That would be awesome to see some way to utilize all channels out the gate.
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Post by cwt on Aug 28, 2019 0:54:33 GMT -5
They were always allowed to make a 3rd party proprietary system. Dolby just restricted commercial upmixers. I could be wrong but the way I read into it was what Mark was mentioning that they were letting on to developments being under NDA and they decided it would make anything they could do obsolete so they are just letting Dolby or DTS do their thing until they can release the expansion bays with them. That would be awesome to see some way to utilize all channels out the gate. Just quietly considering how much work Lonnie says it will be to matrix neural to dolby and vice versa ; How many would just prefer auro and/or the auromatic upmixer to be added instead [ or another proprietary upmixer ?] Easier to add the code this way ? as well as factoring in how much r&d work had been done on the redundant Emo upmixer ? I think the former should be left on the back burner considering what is more important ie dirac 2.0 ;bass management modules ;diracs new sub bass management etc
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 28, 2019 6:23:53 GMT -5
They were always allowed to make a 3rd party proprietary system. Dolby just restricted commercial upmixers. I could be wrong but the way I read into it was what Mark was mentioning that they were letting on to developments being under NDA and they decided it would make anything they could do obsolete so they are just letting Dolby or DTS do their thing until they can release the expansion bays with them. That would be awesome to see some way to utilize all channels out the gate. Just quietly considering how much work Lonnie says it will be to matrix neural to dolby and vice versa ; How many would just prefer auro and/or the auromatic upmixer to be added instead [ or another proprietary upmixer ?] Easier to add the code this way ? as well as factoring in how much r&d work had been done on the redundant Emo upmixer ? I think the former should be left on the back burner considering what is more important ie dirac 2.0 ;bass management modules ;diracs new sub bass management etc I don’t know much about the Auro-Matic Upmixer, only that a few here think it’s good, but I have trouble with the concept of adding a new product as a solution to reconfiguring or un-hampering two other products. I think they should remove the Dolby/DTS restrictions, which as you say may be a matrix of some sort allowing the cross use of upmixers, as they’re doing work of that type, like perhaps when they’re adding DTS:X Pro (which I hope is inevitable). Depending on work and cost, the Auro-matic upmixer might make more sense (and more sales) than the proprietary upmixer; but I agree that Dirac, expansion, and fixing existing problems, are more important than any of this right now.
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Post by MonsieurAl on Aug 28, 2019 7:51:11 GMT -5
I used Auro 3D for 2 years before the RMC-1 and that's one of the things I miss, all the "big guys" are equipped with Auro 3D. the Auro-matic does a sensational job in upmix. I'm all for it !
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 28, 2019 7:56:22 GMT -5
I fear you have no choice since apparently, Emotiva may be the only company enforcing the former restriction. It will take time to un-unfudge it. - Rich Lyngdorf MP-50 and McIntosh MX-160 are enforcing it. I do believe it will be a simple fix for them since they did not always enforce it. Whatever happened to the Emotiva 9.1.6 upmixer Big Dan said was in development? Scrapped or on-hold? The up mixer is still in the works. Just running behind schedule due to other code work. Lonnie
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richb
Sensei
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Post by richb on Aug 28, 2019 8:09:53 GMT -5
Just quietly considering how much work Lonnie says it will be to matrix neural to dolby and vice versa ; How many would just prefer auro and/or the auromatic upmixer to be added instead [ or another proprietary upmixer ?] Easier to add the code this way ? as well as factoring in how much r&d work had been done on the redundant Emo upmixer ? I think the former should be left on the back burner considering what is more important ie dirac 2.0 ;bass management modules ;diracs new sub bass management etc I don’t know much about the Auro-Matic Upmixer, only that a few here think it’s good, but I have trouble with the concept of adding a new product as a solution to reconfiguring or un-hampering two other products. I think they should remove the Dolby/DTS restrictions, which as you say may be a matrix of some sort allowing the cross use of upmixers, as they’re doing work of that type, like perhaps when they’re adding DTS:X Pro (which I hope is inevitable). Depending on work and cost, the Auro-matic upmixer might make more sense (and more sales) than the proprietary upmixer; but I agree that Dirac, expansion, and fixing existing problems, are more important than any of this right now. I'd rather see complete support of the major sound formats first: IMAX Enhanced, Emosphere thingy, and DTS-X Pro. - Rich
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Post by MonsieurAl on Aug 28, 2019 8:23:40 GMT -5
In France have about thirty Bluray in Dolby Atmos, DTS:X 0 not a single film in DTS: X in French I forced to watch movies in VOST! (if I want to read I take a book) that's why an upixmer 9.1.6 will be really good to enjoy the full potential of the RMC-1
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Post by andersmi on Aug 28, 2019 9:03:08 GMT -5
In France have about thirty Bluray in Dolby Atmos, DTS:X 0 not a single film in DTS: X in French I forced to watch movies in VOST! (if I want to read I take a book) that's why an upixmer 9.1.6 will be really good to enjoy the full potential of the RMC-1 You loss so much information/feeling from the original movie not to mention the lips that is not following the lips is just awful. I would much rather watch a Japanese movie or any other movie with Danish subtitles than having it dubbed.
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Post by hsamwel on Aug 28, 2019 9:56:57 GMT -5
Must admit I prefer the info shown on the earlier version. Is there anyway that could be brought back? Yes and no at the same time, the problem is this. All Dolby Atmos is embedded in a True HD stream, so the display would always show Dolby True HD 7.1 and the object channel count would be constantly bouncing around as objects appeared and went away unless the movie had pinned channels. We have discussed this on many occasions here as to what is best to show on the display and we always come back to the same conclusion. If its Atmos, just show Atmos, otherwise we will get thousands of calls about the processor being defective because the display is constantly changing or that it is defective because it is showing True HD and not Atmos. So rather then try to explain to the world about how Atmos works it is just better if we simply show less. Hope this helps to explain things. Lonnie I think you misunderstand what users want. It’s not a list of CURRENTLY used speakers turning on and off as sound is played or not played through it. It’s a list of currently active speakers for the format used. Just like Denon/Marantz or really any other manufacturer. Just because you show it active, it may not be active with sound all the time. For example DSU does not use front wides, then these should be shown as inactive. Some atmos tracks are pinned, then show which speakers are active for playback from all installed speakers. DTS Neural:X and DTS:X are limited to 7.1.4, so which are active during playback and ”could” produce sound.
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