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Post by Gerard on Nov 22, 2019 11:20:00 GMT -5
I wanted to Share an experience with My RMC1 and the newest 4k Firestick. I was unable to get the device to put out 4K HDR at 10 or 12 bits. It would only put out 8 bits. I spend days trouble shooting this. I finally Googled "4K Firestick only puts out 8 bit HDR" and a few boards clarified the issue . I sent the following message to Amazons's development folks. When the new 4K firestick is connected to a projector or TV that supports 4K HDR or HDR10 but not Dolby Vision it only puts out HDR at 8 bits. This is likely Due to Dolby Vision being grouped in 8 bit. Your Older Fire TV 4k Pendant will put out 4k HDR content in 10 & 12 bit. This is likely due to it not supporting Dolby Vision. You need a software patch to turn on and off Dolby Vision for your newer 4K Firestick. So I am running my Older 4k Fire TV pendent and HDR is running at 12 bits. The Tech was chatting with implied they are aware and are working on a fix. Current RMC layout.pdf (41.62 KB)
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,945
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Post by KeithL on Nov 22, 2019 11:56:53 GMT -5
Note that, for setting speaker levels, you don't need a multi-channel encoded test disc. In fact, if you select Off/External, then the preferred source is a monaural two channel test signal.
The RMC-1 includes an internal "test tone signal generator" which is normally used to set the levels. When you select Off/External you basically silence the internal signal generator. You then have the option of plugging in an external source to use for your test signal - which the RMC-1 will then route to whichever speaker you're setting. (You can also do this if you're simply entering settings you've calculated on your own and prefer not to listen to the test signal.)
However, if you do so, your External source will be treated as a stereo input signal, playing in "all stereo"...
The RMC-1 will then route that signal to the channel you've chosen to set...
If you're doing it this way there is absolutely no need to use a "Surround Sound Test Disc" which "walks a level tone around the speakers" or any benefit from doing so.
The RMC-1 will simply play it, decode it, then sum its output into All Stereo, then route that summed signal to the speaker you've selected to set as a test signal. While this should work, it's "the long way around", and introduces several extra processing steps where errors could potentially creep in.
For this purpose, the ideal test signal is a two channel file containing a "monaural white noise test signal" or a "monaural pink noise test signal". You can download stereo white noise sample files from many sources... and then either burn them to a disc or play them from a stick on most players. (We suggest you use "mono white noise"... just to be sure to avoid slight level variations that might occur in the summed center channel if you use "uncorrelated stereo white noise"... but either will work.)
Alternately, if you prefer to use a "Surround Sound Test Disc" which plays a test tone sequentially in each channel... You are better off playing it as ordinary content, taking measurements of each speaker, as it plays, and then adjusting the trim levels accordingly. (Then, if you're a perfectionist, re-measure it, and correct for any minor unexpected errors.)
One alternative to the issue of changing test tone levels with different Firmware revisions, is to use an external source, like a test disk. Unfortunately many disks don’t have levels for height speakers, and of course the disks typically aren’t free. I’ve mentioned before using Dolby’s setup tones, they come in flavors matched for your layout: 5.1.2, 7.1.4, 9.1.6 etc (they only have a few choices). You then set your RMC/XMC’s test tones to Off/External and play the file from one of your sources, I copy the file to to a flash drive and play it from my Oppo 203. One difference is that you’re playing a track and get a fixed amount of time for the tone to play on each speaker, maybe a couple minutes each, so you may have to play a section over, or wait through the end of that channel. Unfortunately the page I downloaded mine from has disappeared, and I don’t think it’s been replaced, but I did get a link from AVS to a macOS app that will let you download these files. I was told there are problems with the Windows version, and this one has given me some grief, but I have been able to download some files (they’re too big to post). Anyway if you have a Mac and want to try an external source for speaker level setup, here’s a link to the Dolby App, I’ll keep looking for other sources (if anyone knows a way non Mac users can still get the files, please post it). download.dolby.com/us/en/test-tones/DolbyTestToneAndTrailerDownloader.dmgHere’s what the app looks like:
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Post by TDifEQ on Nov 22, 2019 12:23:29 GMT -5
Still staying with RMC-1, even though I'm on 1.5. Still like dealing with KeithL … he listens, goes the extra mile, very technically experienced and has always been fair. Got my new amp installed, still can't get the triggers to work with any of my 4 amps (12 VDC trigger inputs). Has anyone got any secret sauce to make triggers work? I've verified there is 11.83 VDC going into my amp's trigger inputs. Amps used to work with Denon 4810ci rcv'r. Weird.
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Post by andersmi on Nov 22, 2019 12:54:54 GMT -5
The biggest problem isn't the HDMI switching time. It's the HDMI syncing, after I updated to 1.7 I got signal after 20 reboots where I tried different startup procedures, tried the same approach again without luck. I have downgraded to 1.5 again now I can get it to sync again but it's still not very good. I need to boot the RMC and JVC X35 projector at the same time or else it doesn't sync. If I need to leave the room and turn off the projector and boot it up without turning the RMC off it also can´t sync. I don´t have this problem with any other receiver or device. This will need to be resolved before Dirac is released, if Dirac is released I and can´t get the to HDMI sync, it will be unusable and I will have to return it because the 30 day return policy will be activated, then I can´t wait for you to maybe solve the issue. You know ;thinking laterally ; taking this dsd recognition step out of most of your inputs may firm up locking on for hdmi edid syncs ;)It cant hurt and look forward to yours and owners 1.8 thoughts.. Shame the lpcm version of the AKM dac's wasnt chosen instead of the dsd version ; a simpler circuit path in hindsight possibly.Though everyone likes pure dsd bitstream these days Perhaps, I just hope that hdmi sync is first priority and not the speed. 😊
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 22, 2019 12:58:21 GMT -5
Still staying with RMC-1, even though I'm on 1.5. Still like dealing with KeithL … he listens, goes the extra mile, very technically experienced and has always been fair. Got my new amp installed, still can't get the triggers to work with any of my 4 amps (12 VDC trigger inputs). Has anyone got any secret sauce to make triggers work? I've verified there is 11.83 VDC going into my amp's trigger inputs. Amps used to work with Denon 4810ci rcv'r. Weird. Each trigger output has different default settings, normally Trigger 1 will turn your amps on properly without change, try using just that one output to a single amp, or is that what’s not working?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 22, 2019 13:09:26 GMT -5
... When you select Off/External you basically silence the internal signal generator. You then have the option of plugging in an external source to use for your test signal - which the RMC-1 will then route to whichever speaker you're setting... However, if you do so, your External source will be treated as a stereo input signal, playing in "all stereo"... The RMC-1 will then route that signal to the channel you've chosen to set... That’s helpful info I hadn’t seen before, but now find in the manual ... “I f you select Off (External) as your test signal source, then whatever input source is currently selected on the RMC-1 will be used as the test tone source. This input will be treated as if it were playing in the equivalent of All Stereo Mode, but the resulting output signal will then be sent to ONLY the currently selected channel.”
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Post by maconi on Nov 22, 2019 13:36:56 GMT -5
Unfortunately the page I downloaded mine from has disappeared, and I don’t think it’s been replaced, but I did get a link from AVS to a macOS app that will let you download these files. I was told there are problems with the Windows version, and this one has given me some grief, but I have been able to download some files (they’re too big to post). Anyway if you have a Mac and want to try an external source for speaker level setup, here’s a link to the Dolby App, I’ll keep looking for other sources (if anyone knows a way non Mac users can still get the files, please post it). thedigitaltheater.com/dolby-trailers/I downloaded the Amaze (Lossless ATMOS) trailer from there to test my heights and they worked (I used my new Nvidia Shield TV to playback the file).
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 22, 2019 13:59:44 GMT -5
Note that, for setting speaker levels, you don't need a multi-channel encoded test disc. In fact, if you select Off/External, then the preferred source is a monaural two channel test signal.
The RMC-1 includes an internal "test tone signal generator" which is normally used to set the levels. When you select Off/External you basically silence the internal signal generator. You then have the option of plugging in an external source to use for your test signal - which the RMC-1 will then route to whichever speaker you're setting. (You can also do this if you're simply entering settings you've calculated on your own and prefer not to listen to the test signal.)
However, if you do so, your External source will be treated as a stereo input signal, playing in "all stereo"...
The RMC-1 will then route that signal to the channel you've chosen to set...
If you're doing it this way there is absolutely no need to use a "Surround Sound Test Disc" which "walks a level tone around the speakers" or any benefit from doing so.
The RMC-1 will simply play it, decode it, then sum its output into All Stereo, then route that summed signal to the speaker you've selected to set as a test signal. While this should work, it's "the long way around", and introduces several extra processing steps where errors could potentially creep in.
For this purpose, the ideal test signal is a two channel file containing a "monaural white noise test signal" or a "monaural pink noise test signal". You can download stereo white noise sample files from many sources... and then either burn them to a disc or play them from a stick on most players. (We suggest you use "mono white noise"... just to be sure to avoid slight level variations that might occur in the summed center channel if you use "uncorrelated stereo white noise"... but either will work.)
Alternately, if you prefer to use a "Surround Sound Test Disc" which plays a test tone sequentially in each channel... You are better off playing it as ordinary content, taking measurements of each speaker, as it plays, and then adjusting the trim levels accordingly. (Then, if you're a perfectionist, re-measure it, and correct for any minor unexpected errors.)
One alternative to the issue of changing test tone levels with different Firmware revisions, is to use an external source, like a test disk. Unfortunately many disks don’t have levels for height speakers, and of course the disks typically aren’t free. I’ve mentioned before using Dolby’s setup tones, they come in flavors matched for your layout: 5.1.2, 7.1.4, 9.1.6 etc (they only have a few choices). You then set your RMC/XMC’s test tones to Off/External and play the file from one of your sources, I copy the file to to a flash drive and play it from my Oppo 203. One difference is that you’re playing a track and get a fixed amount of time for the tone to play on each speaker, maybe a couple minutes each, so you may have to play a section over, or wait through the end of that channel. Unfortunately the page I downloaded mine from has disappeared, and I don’t think it’s been replaced, but I did get a link from AVS to a macOS app that will let you download these files. I was told there are problems with the Windows version, and this one has given me some grief, but I have been able to download some files (they’re too big to post). Anyway if you have a Mac and want to try an external source for speaker level setup, here’s a link to the Dolby App, I’ll keep looking for other sources (if anyone knows a way non Mac users can still get the files, please post it). download.dolby.com/us/en/test-tones/DolbyTestToneAndTrailerDownloader.dmgHere’s what the app looks like: Thanks for clarifying. Now I will finish reading the manual before adding more comments.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 14:21:12 GMT -5
Still staying with RMC-1, even though I'm on 1.5. Still like dealing with KeithL … he listens, goes the extra mile, very technically experienced and has always been fair. Got my new amp installed, still can't get the triggers to work with any of my 4 amps (12 VDC trigger inputs). Has anyone got any secret sauce to make triggers work? I've verified there is 11.83 VDC going into my amp's trigger inputs. Amps used to work with Denon 4810ci rcv'r. Weird. Had a couple of hiccups with trigger outputs myself. I have found that you have to make sure that your cables are Fully pushed in - a fraction of a millimeter can make or break the connection. You might "play" (jiggle the plug ) with the trigger wire connection while the RMC-1 is on and in a condition that should turn your amps on.
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Post by TDifEQ on Nov 22, 2019 14:43:19 GMT -5
Each trigger output has different default settings, normally Trigger 1 will turn your amps on properly without change, try using just that one output to a single amp, or is that what’s not working? Had a couple of hiccups with trigger outputs myself. I have found that you have to make sure that your cables are Fully pushed in - a fraction of a millimeter can make or break the connection. You might "play" (jiggle the plug ) with the trigger wire connection while the RMC-1 is on and in a condition that should turn your amps on. Checked the connections … ok. Used just Trigger1 … no good. Checked Trigger Setup in RMC-1 … ok. Talked to lead Amp engineer. He said each amp 12VDC trigger input requires 30mA. So for 4 amps I'll need 120mA. Can RMC-1 put out 120mA to activate all 4 triggers?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 22, 2019 14:53:44 GMT -5
Unfortunately the page I downloaded mine from has disappeared, and I don’t think it’s been replaced, but I did get a link from AVS to a macOS app that will let you download these files. I was told there are problems with the Windows version, and this one has given me some grief, but I have been able to download some files (they’re too big to post). Anyway if you have a Mac and want to try an external source for speaker level setup, here’s a link to the Dolby App, I’ll keep looking for other sources (if anyone knows a way non Mac users can still get the files, please post it). thedigitaltheater.com/dolby-trailers/I downloaded the Amaze (Lossless ATMOS) trailer from there to test my heights and they worked (I used my new Nvidia Shield TV to playback the file). Right, those are good demo files, but not test tones, I’m looking for downloadable versions of the Dolby Atmos Test Tones. I’ve also used the “Amaze” demo (I got it from 4KMedia.org), it’s very good and much better than the one Dolby distributes.
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Post by donh50 on Nov 22, 2019 14:56:41 GMT -5
I know some other AVRs rate the trigger output at 50 mA with some more, some even less. I seem to recall asking and the XMC-1 could output about 100 mA but I am not sure if that. In any event I'd probably pick up Emotiva's trigger repeater instead of loading a single output so heavily.
I may look at the new XLR-RCA adapters even though the RMC-1 is off the table for me. I have some old Hosa and really dislike them (poor build quality). I only need a couple so $20 is not a big deal compared to all the other , errr, "stuff" in the room and on my workbench.
I like Keith; he misses now and then but is willing to put his "face" out there and I know from personal experience that he is very dedicated both to Emotiva and to his customers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2019 16:28:29 GMT -5
Each trigger output has different default settings, normally Trigger 1 will turn your amps on properly without change, try using just that one output to a single amp, or is that what’s not working? Had a couple of hiccups with trigger outputs myself. I have found that you have to make sure that your cables are Fully pushed in - a fraction of a millimeter can make or break the connection. You might "play" (jiggle the plug ) with the trigger wire connection while the RMC-1 is on and in a condition that should turn your amps on. Checked the connections … ok. Used just Trigger1 … no good. Checked Trigger Setup in RMC-1 … ok. Talked to lead Amp engineer. He said each amp 12VDC trigger input requires 30mA. So for 4 amps I'll need 120mA. Can RMC-1 put out 120mA to activate all 4 triggers?Don't know the mA for the RMC-1's trigger outputs. I once tried using a y-splitter on trigger output #1 and neither device turned on soo.... Emo does have a trigger/splitter box ET-3 that I'm using elsewhere with good success (don't know the output voltage, but its power supply is 12v 500mA with 3 outputs).
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Post by hsamwel on Nov 22, 2019 16:32:29 GMT -5
I know some other AVRs rate the trigger output at 50 mA with some more, some even less. I seem to recall asking and the XMC-1 could output about 100 mA but I am not sure if that. In any event I'd probably pick up Emotiva's trigger repeater instead of loading a single output so heavily. I may look at the new XLR-RCA adapters even though the RMC-1 is off the table for me. I have some old Hosa and really dislike them (poor build quality). I only need a couple so $20 is not a big deal compared to all the other , errr, "stuff" in the room and on my workbench. I like Keith; he misses now and then but is willing to put his "face" out there and I know from personal experience that he is very dedicated both to Emotiva and to his customers. I bought 3 of those adapters. One for immediate use and the others for possible 3 sub setup later. They are of high quality. A little long cable for my taste, could have been half the length, it’s after all an adapter not a full cable. $8 is cheap. Although I had to pay a further $17 to have them sent to me in Sweden.. Still pretty cheap compared to local prices.
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Post by SteveH on Nov 22, 2019 16:46:16 GMT -5
Checked the connections … ok. Used just Trigger1 … no good. Checked Trigger Setup in RMC-1 … ok. Talked to lead Amp engineer. He said each amp 12VDC trigger input requires 30mA. So for 4 amps I'll need 120mA. Can RMC-1 put out 120mA to activate all 4 triggers?Don't know the mA for the RMC-1's trigger outputs. I once tried using a y-splitter on trigger output #1 and neither device turned on soo.... Emo does have a trigger/splitter box ET-3 that I'm using elsewhere with good success (don't know the output voltage, but its power supply is 12v 500mA with 3 outputs). I used the ET-3 to make a 12VDC triggered 120VAC power strip for my accessories. The unloaded output trigger voltage of my ET-3 is 10.8VDC and the ET-3 is rated for 150mA total output current. It works great with no issues.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,945
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Post by KeithL on Nov 22, 2019 17:00:36 GMT -5
You've got sort of an odd situation there....
I'm not sure what the actual limit is - but any one of the trigger outputs on the RMC-1 can deliver at least 120 mA. (So getting 30 mA each from four of them should also be no problem at all.) And, if you've measured over 11V at the trigger input of the amp, that should be plenty to turn on any amp, and shows that the RMC-1 trigger output seems to be working properly.
Since you mentioned measuring the output voltage, I'm assuming you're comfortable with voltages and connections. If so, you can test the trigger input on each amp individually by pressing the terminals of a 9V radio battery against the electrical contacts on the connector on the trigger wire. (A standard 9V radio battery delivers plenty of voltage and current to activate the trigger input on most amps......)
Each trigger output has different default settings, normally Trigger 1 will turn your amps on properly without change, try using just that one output to a single amp, or is that what’s not working? Had a couple of hiccups with trigger outputs myself. I have found that you have to make sure that your cables are Fully pushed in - a fraction of a millimeter can make or break the connection. You might "play" (jiggle the plug ) with the trigger wire connection while the RMC-1 is on and in a condition that should turn your amps on. Checked the connections … ok. Used just Trigger1 … no good. Checked Trigger Setup in RMC-1 … ok. Talked to lead Amp engineer. He said each amp 12VDC trigger input requires 30mA. So for 4 amps I'll need 120mA. Can RMC-1 put out 120mA to activate all 4 triggers?
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Post by cwt on Nov 22, 2019 22:21:01 GMT -5
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Post by MonsieurAl on Nov 23, 2019 4:57:38 GMT -5
Hi, oh no, not him again! this time it will not be the negative promised. after buying rmc-1 I install 2 additional speakers for 9.xx "wides" my great disappointment it only works in Atmos on the rmc-1 ... I would not say more. .. short since I have 2 speaker in my living room and I finally found a utility! I'm connected to "bi amplification" and finally the result is fantastic! as they are smaller speaker compared to my 3 center speaker the front right / left still dominates the "wides Bi-amp." and perfectly bridges the hole between front and surround. This kind of result makes me still love the RMC-1 because the sound in listen 2.0 is incredible
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Post by ausman on Nov 23, 2019 10:57:59 GMT -5
the ARC has been standard for many years, as as atleast 1 hdmi port is used for that functionality back from the tv to the processor/avr you are useing downside is you loose a hdmi for tv use
sad to say I doubt 8k could be processed as we have enough issues having the physical hardware to play 4k without having minor to major playback issues
we are likely going to have major issues just having a player that supports 8k let alone having connection bus that can handle 8k and it is looking that whatever connection standard being in physical use is going over a multi port solution as I don't think even think hdmi 2.1 has the actual bandwidth to handle 8k..
as everyone current producing 8k screens aren't running 8k via hdmi they seem to be using some variation of a display port adapter and it uses 4 ports..
and these screens are 65 inch and up and I doubt we will see it in 55 inch and lower..
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Post by TDifEQ on Nov 23, 2019 16:34:27 GMT -5
You've got sort of an odd situation there....
I'm not sure what the actual limit is - but any one of the trigger outputs on the RMC-1 can deliver at least 120 mA. (So getting 30 mA each from four of them should also be no problem at all.) And, if you've measured over 11V at the trigger input of the amp, that should be plenty to turn on any amp, and shows that the RMC-1 trigger output seems to be working properly.
Since you mentioned measuring the output voltage, I'm assuming you're comfortable with voltages and connections. If so, you can test the trigger input on each amp individually by pressing the terminals of a 9V radio battery against the electrical contacts on the connector on the trigger wire. (A standard 9V radio battery delivers plenty of voltage and current to activate the trigger input on most amps......)
Checked the connections … ok. Used just Trigger1 … no good. Checked Trigger Setup in RMC-1 … ok. Talked to lead Amp engineer. He said each amp 12VDC trigger input requires 30mA. So for 4 amps I'll need 120mA. Can RMC-1 put out 120mA to activate all 4 triggers?Thanks for mentioning "at the Amp" … meaning "loaded". That 11.8 VDC was at the far end on the 3.5mm trigger cable (tip and ring) … unloaded (not plugged into the amp). I just went back and plugged in a 3.5mm splitter at the RMC-1 trigger input and got 4.1 VDC … loaded. Rechecked the unloaded tip and ring reading and it was at still at 11.8 VDC. So, I either return the RMC-1 to have the triggers repaired (not enough current) or buy the ET-3 for $40.00 … assuming the RMC-1 has enough current to drive the ET-3. Any more tests I should run?
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