Reference Stereo with a Sub...even with XMC-2

[klinemj]

I'd long been doing what most say is not possible - using a sub with reference stereo. And, to complicate things, I do this while having a choice of amp to be used for FR/FL speakers. I can toggle between my Hypex monoblocks and my PrimaLuna tube amp.

With the XMC-2 coming, I am interested. However, removal of the RCA connections means I have to do it differently.

Here's how I used to do do this, first with only my Hypex, then with the Hypex or the PrimaLuna via some extra wiring and a speaker selector switch:
With Hypex Only: -->CLICK HERE<--
With Choice of Hypex or PrimaLuna: -->CLICK HERE FOR WIRING EXCESS!<--

Note that a key part of this is a feature on my Rythmik sub and how it handles having both RCA and XLR connections made. Details on that are in the first link.

With RCA's gone and XLR only, I have to add 1 more pair of Y-splitters. They would have to end up in RCA connectors (do-able via adapters or the right splitter).

Here's how it's done with choice of amps for FR/FL:


Here's how to do it if you just want to use 1 type of FR/FL amp (in other words, you are not crazy like me):


Enjoy! And, this makes me a very likely taker on the XMC-1 to XMC-2 trade in deal (assuming the Dirac aspects get worked out and there's nothing else to stop me from being interested in the XMC-2). I would not give up ability to do this trick! My Maggies can use the sub for music.

Mark

[ÈlTwo]

Mark, you have too much time on you hands.

[creimes]

And using subs it ain't Reference 2ch more like Reference 2.2ch

[klinemj]

Apr 15, 2019 21:46:59 GMT -5 ÈlTwo said:

Mark, you have too much time on you hands.

It helps being retired. LOL! But seriously, I thought up the original plan pre-retirement. Doing this was an enabler to get rid of my XSP-1 saving me rack space and bringing some $ back to use for something else. So, I was motivated.

Mark

[richb]

Nice!

What can be done for a sub without stereo inputs? There would have to be a combiner.

I don't know if this help but am using a ARX RS-1 to switch a pair of XLR input to a single output:

www.markertek.com/product/arx-rs-1/arx-rs-1-remote-switcher-stereo-xlr-balanced-remote-controlled-switcher

This device is not cheap but it does not require separate power so a trigger can be used to switch input.
For Reference Stereo, there would need to be an additional trigger to make the switch.

Just a thought.

- Rich

[klinemj]

Aug 24, 2019 10:47:54 GMT -5 richb said:

Nice!

What can be done for a sub without stereo inputs? There would have to be a combiner.

I don't know if this help but am using a ARX RS-1 to switch a pair of XLR input to a single output:

www.markertek.com/product/arx-rs-1/arx-rs-1-remote-switcher-stereo-xlr-balanced-remote-controlled-switcher

This device is not cheap but it does not require separate power so a trigger can be used to switch input.
For Reference Stereo, there would need to be an additional trigger to make the switch.

Just a thought.

- Rich

From what I understand, people having subs without stereo inputs take the bass off of 1 channel only and feed that. I don't have that limit with mine, so I didn't have to research that.

Mark

[509Paul]

It has always bothered me that you can not incorporate a subwoofer with SACD or reference stereo. Most speakers are missing and need the lowest frequencies for a realistic listening experience.

[klinemj]

Aug 24, 2019 16:01:57 GMT -5 509Paul said:

It has always bothered me that you can not incorporate a subwoofer with SACD or reference stereo. Most speakers are missing and need the lowest frequencies for a realistic listening experience.

But - you can...see my post...1st post here.

Mark

[derwin]

Hey guys, I wanted to chime in here. I am in a similar boat as Mark - trying to dual purpose my rythmik subs to accept the LFE input from the XMC-2 (via bass mgmt and eventually with Dirac processing), as well as have them accept a full-range signal via reference stereo so I can run my turn table through the XMC-2 without any ADC-DAC conversions.

My XMC-1 setup is almost identical to Mark’s first proposal, except I had one awesome addition: I used a Niles AVS-2 as my RCA switcher. This accepts a 12 volt trigger to switch between A/B and I set the XMC-1 to turn it on only when the record player input was selected - no manual switching!

Enter the XMC-2: no rca outs. Womp womp 🤦‍♂️. Marks solution above works well, but my mains amp (pass XA) is built around receiving a balanced input, and if possible, I wanted to maintain XLRs if at all possible. So I have ordered the parts for the below solution which will allow me to still send an XLR signal to the FR/FL amp, AND use a 12-volt switched RCA switcher to send the full range signal to my subs ONLY when the turntable is running.

The trick is to use two RCA switchers (the 12 v trigger on the Niles AVS is daisy chainable), and to convert the XLR signal to two rca signals (one for + and one for -). I used a Hosa YPR 257 TRS to stereo rca cable that splits pins 2 and 3 out to their own rca cables. Each of these RCA cables then passes through the RCA switcher, and on the other side, you use another TRS to stereo to convert the two rcas back to pins 2&3 of the xlr, and that XLR feeds in to the line input on the rythmik.

I’m not so great with the artwork as Mark, but here is my best shot at a text diagram for you guys:

XMC-2 FL Xlr -> xlr y-splitter -> split A to mains amp
-> split B via an XLR to TRS cable to the TRSF to stereo RCA
-> Left RCA To L side of Niles AVS2 (input B)
-> Right RCA to R side of Niles AVS2 (input B)
-> Niles Common output RCA L and R to Another TRSF to stereo RCA
-> TRS to XLR cable to Rythmik sub’s line in

Repeat the same for the XMC-2 FR Xlr output, passing through the L&R B inputs of a second Niles AVS

Then, run one of your XMC-2 trigger outputs to the Nile’s 12v input, and daisy chain the two via the Nile’s 12v output.


Now I can order my XMC-1 -> XMC-2 tradein!!

[thezone]

Hi guys, I did this years ago with my old primare pre 30 which you can use both RCA and balanced pre outs simultaneously and I used a remote controlled RCA switcher to switch between LFE and 2ch full range so I could add 2 subs with 2ch full range but there's an issue with doing this. If you are doubling up on frequencies the sound will always be compromised. I traded the primare set up and bought the XMC-1 and tried splitting as per above but I found that by using direct mode and internally crossing over and preserving frequency x-over/distribution the sound quality is far better than using reference mode and doubling up on frequencies.


I realise that using an analogue source such as a turntable you are going from analogue to digital back to analogue in order to achieve bass management but given the high quality dacs in the XMC-1 and even better XMC-2 this is really a non-event and frequency separation is more important and will give you a cleaner more balanced sound. 

[amped]

The answer is no. "Reference" quality 2 channel audio IS NOT possible with ANY processor.

[klinemj]

Jun 6, 2020 11:51:57 GMT -5 amped said:

The answer is no. "Reference" quality 2 channel audio IS NOT possible with ANY processor.

Well...just to be clear...I am referring to the "reference stereo" setting on an Emotiva processor. That has a specific meaning in Emotiva processor land...it's a setting that allows going from an analog input through the volume control and on to the outputs with no processing or other circuitry at all.

It does not necessarily mean it's "reference quality" (and whatever vague meaning that actually has). But, I will tell you this...on the XMC-1, using the reference stereo setting sounds every bit as good as the XSP-1 as a preamp - and that's pretty impressive.

Mark

[novisnick]

Jun 6, 2020 13:39:08 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Jun 6, 2020 11:51:57 GMT -5 amped said:

The answer is no. "Reference" quality 2 channel audio IS NOT possible with ANY processor.

Well...just to be clear...I am referring to the "reference stereo" setting on an Emotiva processor. That has a specific meaning in Emotiva processor land...it's a setting that allows going from an analog input through the volume control and on to the outputs with no processing or other circuitry at all.

It does not necessarily mean it's "reference quality" (and whatever vague meaning that actually has). But, I will tell you this...on the XMC-1, using the reference stereo setting sounds every bit as good as the XSP-1 as a preamp - and that's pretty impressive.

Mark

klinemj I’m of the firm belief that Emotiva started with the XSP-1 preamp heart and built upon it to create the XMC-1. I owned both units simultaneously and really couldn’t discern much if any difference between the two. 
Just my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth.

[amped]

I totally agree...my PT-7030 had a very impressive 2 channel direct option. I just shoot from the hip a bit when I hear that someone actually thinks that an excellent processor can provide the same sonic benefits of a stand alone 2 ch set-up but that was clearly not the case here or should I say "hear".