cgolf
Emo VIPs
Posts: 4,613
|
Post by cgolf on Aug 5, 2019 9:10:52 GMT -5
I’m using a Yamaha 870 as a pre pro and so far works great. Have always enjoyed the Yamaha sound
|
|
|
Post by strindl on Aug 5, 2019 11:33:50 GMT -5
Why not try something like this? Full preouts plus Atmos. You can set up your external amp to power the speakers you want, then allow the internal AVR amps to power your Atmos? I can't imagine why these wouldn't work for you?....all for under $500 I'm using a Yamaha TSR-7810 as a preamp processor in my living room system. It has pre outs for all channels, and the sound quality is better than what I previously got from using an Outlaw 990. The features and capabilities of each are not even close though, with the Yamaha delivering all the latest bells and whistles, all of which have worked perfectly from day one. I paid about $700.00 for the Outlaw processor back in 2009, and $399 at a special Costco sale, for the Yamaha Receiver in 2017. The one advantage that the Outlaw had was balanced XLR outputs for all channels,but that's the only advantage I've noticed. I have a full Magnepan 5.1 channel speaker system there, with 1.7's driven by an XPA2-gen 3, a CC3 center channel driven by a bridged Adcom 555 II, and a pair of MMG's for the surround driven by one side of an Adcom GFA-2535 with 90 watts per channel at 4 ohms. As I mentioned, the sound quality with the Yamaha as the preamp processor is noticably better than the sound using the Outlaw.
|
|
|
Post by ottaone on Aug 5, 2019 11:44:12 GMT -5
To OP, but why $600 every two years when you can do $2K-$3K every ten years for a solid pre-pro? Unless you really want new bells and whistles. My "mid-fi" UMC is nine years old, step up in quality to my Pioneer VSX that it replaced.
I still think that we are now on a relatively stable set of standards that should be good for the next ten years - 4K, Dolby Vision/HDR+, Atmos/DTS:X. The only real item that I'm taking into consideration between upgrading the UMC-1 now (with units like Anthem AVM60 or Marantz 8802/8805) and waiting for another year or two is HDMI 2.1.
My Rogers cable receiver still carries standard 480p almost 20 years since HD was introduced.
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Aug 5, 2019 11:57:27 GMT -5
We need to stop chasing the HDMI train. Good for OEMs and six month product cycles, bad for us.
|
|
|
Post by SteveH on Aug 5, 2019 15:33:58 GMT -5
Obsolescence is what made me purchase a new prepro and amplifiers in 2018. My previous prepro had no subwoofer channel, only had RCA audio and composite video jacks. I had more splitters, switches and extractors hanging off the back of the prepro that I just could not take it anymore, it was time to change and become current. In my opinion, a separate prepro instead of an AVR will save you money in the long run. An amplifier is an amplifier, it basically does not change so it won't need an upgrade due to technology progression like a processor does. Steve, I see from looking at your equipment list you did a slingshot into the 21st century! (RMC and the rest....) You're right about the amplifiers, as long as the power meets the requirements of your room, speakers and the db. levels you wish to attain. My processor...….2014 almost 15. My multichannel amplifier....Jan. 2001 and still breathing. Bill Bill, You are absolutely right about amplifiers! I retired two perfectly good Carver TFM-45 stereo amplifiers and a Carver AV-64 multichannel amplifier that I purchased in 1992. I was running the two TFM-45 amplifiers in bridged mono. A technician friend of mine brought me a pair of circa 1990 Denon monoblocks that he repaired and asked me to do him a favor, play the amplifiers hard and stress them, so I did, for three or four months. The monoblocks had less output power than the TFM-45s, but sounded so much better. That is what prompted me to purchase the DR-1s along with my RMC-1. Had I not had a taste of the monoblocks, I would still be running the 1992 TFM-45s bridged.
|
|
|
Post by SteveH on Aug 5, 2019 16:32:23 GMT -5
To OP, but why $600 every two years when you can do $2K-$3K every ten years for a solid pre-pro? Unless you really want new bells and whistles. My "mid-fi" UMC is nine years old, step up in quality to my Pioneer VSX that it replaced. I still think that we are now on a relatively stable set of standards that should be good for the next ten years - 4K, Dolby Vision/HDR+, Atmos/DTS:X. The only real item that I'm taking into consideration between upgrading the UMC-1 now (with units like Anthem AVM60 or Marantz 8802/8805) and waiting for another year or two is HDMI 2.1. My Rogers cable receiver still carries standard 480p almost 20 years since HD was introduced. I have to agree with ottaone. I purchased a 'solid prepro' in 1992 ($1000 back then) it had Dolby Prologic and that was the bomb, it lasted me 26 years until I finally had to upgrade because I could not hang any more splitters, switches, extractors or converters off the back of my prepro. Separates are the way to go if you want to help 'future proof' yourself. If you can afford it, purchase a dedicated prepro.
|
|
dolby
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
|
Post by dolby on Aug 6, 2019 7:41:48 GMT -5
To OP, but why $600 every two years when you can do $2K-$3K every ten years for a solid pre-pro? Unless you really want new bells and whistles. My "mid-fi" UMC is nine years old, step up in quality to my Pioneer VSX that it replaced. I still think that we are now on a relatively stable set of standards that should be good for the next ten years - 4K, Dolby Vision/HDR+, Atmos/DTS:X. The only real item that I'm taking into consideration between upgrading the UMC-1 now (with units like Anthem AVM60 or Marantz 8802/8805) and waiting for another year or two is HDMI 2.1. My Rogers cable receiver still carries standard 480p almost 20 years since HD was introduced. I don't care about all bells and whistles either - but some of the major new additional like HDMI2.0 that support UHD/HDR/60FPS etc properly. Things don't 'work' well when you've got a chain of HDMI1.4 > HDMI 1.3 > HDMI 2.0 or something similar. Handshakes are a bit 'iffy' and things don't display. My Android TV or PS4 Pro won't display a picture via the UMC-200 (only direct to the TV). Then their sound is via ARC (don't think does DTS) and 'limited' bandwidth. Netflix is broadcasting Dolby Atmos now too through a number of TVs While you don't need every year, there are reasons to upgrade every few years. And I think the jump from 1.4 to 2.0 is worth it. I can't predict the future - but maybe there are features that popular and needed in HDMI 2.2 and it would be great to change the brain at an affordable price. If Marantz is 99% of the way there - what is really preventing the extra few ports as pre-outs ? Is it commercial ? Is it better for a client to spend $3,000.00 every 5 years, as opposed to $600.00 every 2 years?
|
|
dolby
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
|
Post by dolby on Aug 6, 2019 7:47:07 GMT -5
Those are great - I'm not in the US and we don't have half price sales here, but they're great. I However, those amps would be even better if I wasn't paying a 30% premium for the amps that won't even be touched though. So while I'll grudgingly pay an extra 30% on the amp, it'll also extend my next purchase by a year or two. If there was an option to cut the amps out - how many would choose it ?
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 6, 2019 10:53:49 GMT -5
We need to stop chasing the HDMI train. Good for OEMs and six month product cycles, bad for us. I certainly agree, though many of us here are pushing 5 years on our XMC-1’s, and are now looking at upgrades for either features like Atmos/DTS:X, or (to your point) HDMI 2.x for 4K. This doesn’t seem too obsessive for an ‘enthusiast’, and those who are less enthusiastic will be good for years to come with (or without) the V3 board. Those wanting 8K and/or HDMI 2.1, may be riding the train, and probably in for some frustration around here. For this discussion, it’s probably another good argument for an AVR instead of a low cost processor, as they seem to get the latest features first.
|
|
|
Post by teaman on Aug 6, 2019 11:06:19 GMT -5
Those are great - I'm not in the US and we don't have half price sales here, but they're great. I However, those amps would be even better if I wasn't paying a 30% premium for the amps that won't even be touched though. So while I'll grudgingly pay an extra 30% on the amp, it'll also extend my next purchase by a year or two. If there was an option to cut the amps out - how many would choose it ? I’m not sure, but A4less May ship outside the US. The fact that there is onboard amplification should be a good thing. It will save you money powering the Atmos speakers, you certainly don’t need big power for in ceiling speakers that are only getting about 15% of the content, why pay an extra $500 for a A800 or similar to power them? You may also have the option of paying someone to ship it to you. I believe you are in Canada by the exchange rate, and it isn’t sky high pricing for shipping there. Creimes from our forum is one I know of that buys in the US and has the goods shipped to a PO Box near the border. Then he drives down to get it when he has a chance. Just food for thought.
|
|
|
Post by davidl81 on Aug 6, 2019 11:08:01 GMT -5
We need to stop chasing the HDMI train. Good for OEMs and six month product cycles, bad for us. I certainly agree, though many of us here are pushing 5 years on our XMC-1’s, and are now looking at upgrades for either features like Atmos/DTS:X, or (to your point) HDMI 2.x for 4K. This doesn’t seem too obsessive for an ‘enthusiast’, and those who are less enthusiastic will be good for years to come with (or without) the V3 board. Those wanting 8K and/or HDMI 2.1, may be riding the train, and probably in for some frustration around here. For this discussion, it’s probably another good argument for an AVR instead of a low cost processor, as they seem to get the latest features first. AV processors have really been changing at a pretty fast rate over the last 10 years or so. The concept of buying a separate Pre/pro to save money is unfortunately not a reality. You can get a $1000ish AVR that will basically match the features of a $2500 pre-pro (although sound wise be an inferior product). For the more music inclined it may be better to have a dedicate two channel pre-amp and then use an mid range AVR that is somewhat disposable when doing HT stuff.
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Aug 6, 2019 11:23:54 GMT -5
I certainly agree, though many of us here are pushing 5 years on our XMC-1’s, and are now looking at upgrades for either features like Atmos/DTS:X, or (to your point) HDMI 2.x for 4K. This doesn’t seem too obsessive for an ‘enthusiast’, and those who are less enthusiastic will be good for years to come with (or without) the V3 board. Those wanting 8K and/or HDMI 2.1, may be riding the train, and probably in for some frustration around here. For this discussion, it’s probably another good argument for an AVR instead of a low cost processor, as they seem to get the latest features first. AV processors have really been changing at a pretty fast rate over the last 10 years or so. The concept of buying a separate Pre/pro to save money is unfortunately not a reality. You can get a $1000ish AVR that will basically match the features of a $2500 pre-pro (although sound wise be an inferior product). For the more music inclined it may be better to have a dedicate two channel pre-amp and then use an mid range AVR that is somewhat disposable when doing HT stuff. At the end of the day, ya just gotta luv it.....and be willing to open up your wallet a bit for the toys! Interesting to note; My first high end processor served my needs with no upgrading. Just could not do video switching last few years due to the advent of HDMI. .....Enter the XMC1.... Fortunately I care not about Object based audio options but I will need to make a decision when my non 4K display gives up the ghost. Bill
|
|
dolby
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
|
Post by dolby on Aug 6, 2019 12:09:06 GMT -5
So I know the alternative options (AVR with pre-out) - but do you you think alternatives would change with a lower cost processor in the market ? As there isn't one, are the people all just buying these mid level units because they have to and have no choice?
That sounds like something I'm going to have to do as well - settle because of lack of choice. If I had the choice of $700.00 dedicated processor or $700.00 AVR, I'd taking the dedicated unit! I feel that it has been built up from the ground as a dedicated process with zero focus on amplifier section. In theory, it should have better components
What was the UMC-1 at launch ? $700.00 ? It had niggles - but it's sound was actually pretty decent for the price, and it sold enough units to warrant a follow up model too. In fact the MC-700 also received great reviews, barring lack of Atmos.
|
|
dolby
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
|
Post by dolby on Aug 6, 2019 12:13:12 GMT -5
Those are great - I'm not in the US and we don't have half price sales here, but they're great. I I’m not sure, but A4less May ship outside the US. I'm at the bottom of Africa ... shipping here would cost the price of the unit But as I say, I may have to just settle on something cheaper because there are no options. Right now, the Marantz SR6013 is actually looking the best option because of eARC support as well. Though only $900.00 on special, I still think an equivalent priced processor (if it existed) would offer more
|
|