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Post by Gary Cook on Aug 31, 2019 18:59:20 GMT -5
Has anyone who had the problem with the XMC-1's overly aggressive muting of "silence" upgraded to the XMC-2? Is the problem resolved for you in the new model?? I know this did not affect everyone but it very much affects me and makes the XMC-1 very frustrating (almost impossible) to listen through. Background of the problem in case you are not aware: I love everything else about the XMC-1 but the constant cutting off of the first word someone says, each sentence, ruins the experience and has forced me to switch back to a $300 Onkyo receiver for most things. I can't listen to most of my podcasts through the XMC-1, watch youtube, or even many TV shows using my Roku or HTPC. It often gets stuck "muted" and will not make any sound at all unless I FF or REW a bit to force it to start making sound again. It is so frustrating so I hope it is resolved! One of most obvious offenders was Orange is the New Black, in which the opening song can't even play for 5 seconds and sticks the XMC-1 into "mute mode" almost immediately. I have to skip the entire intro EVERY time to have any audio at all come out. The only workaround I have found is to watch things through my HTPC instead of Roku and play a white noise file constantly on repeat in the background to trick the XMC-1, ruining the noise floor which is, ironically, what the muting was intended to improve :/ I really hope the new architecture resolves this issue. It makes every silence in a show or movie stressful, even when it is intended. Thanks! You have probably been told many times before but just in case, I don't have this problem, never have, with the 1K HDMI board or the 4K board or with any version of the firmware. Admittedly I don't have a Roku or a HTPC, just a cable box, Sony 4K BDP and an Apple TV4K all connected via HDMI only and none of them display this problem. I also only use the XMC-1 remote control, with no ARC or CEC (they are the devil's disciples). Cheers Gary
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Post by monkeyjump on Aug 31, 2019 19:07:46 GMT -5
Has anyone who had the problem with the XMC-1's overly aggressive muting of "silence" upgraded to the XMC-2? Is the problem resolved for you in the new model?? I know this did not affect everyone but it very much affects me and makes the XMC-1 very frustrating (almost impossible) to listen through. Background of the problem in case you are not aware: I love everything else about the XMC-1 but the constant cutting off of the first word someone says, each sentence, ruins the experience and has forced me to switch back to a $300 Onkyo receiver for most things. I can't listen to most of my podcasts through the XMC-1, watch youtube, or even many TV shows using my Roku or HTPC. It often gets stuck "muted" and will not make any sound at all unless I FF or REW a bit to force it to start making sound again. It is so frustrating so I hope it is resolved! One of most obvious offenders was Orange is the New Black, in which the opening song can't even play for 5 seconds and sticks the XMC-1 into "mute mode" almost immediately. I have to skip the entire intro EVERY time to have any audio at all come out. The only workaround I have found is to watch things through my HTPC instead of Roku and play a white noise file constantly on repeat in the background to trick the XMC-1, ruining the noise floor which is, ironically, what the muting was intended to improve :/ I really hope the new architecture resolves this issue. It makes every silence in a show or movie stressful, even when it is intended. Thanks! You have probably been told many times before but just in case, I don't have this problem, never have, with the 1K HDMI board or the 4K board or with any version of the firmware. Admittedly I don't have a Roku or a HTPC, just a cable box, Sony 4K BDP and an Apple TV4K all connected via HDMI only and none of them display this problem. I also only use the XMC-1 remote control, with no ARC or CEC (they are the devil's disciples). Cheers Gary Thanks Gary. Yes, I know most people have not experienced this. I am hoping to find someone who HAS experienced the same problem and has also upgraded to the XMC-2 or RMC platform. I know I may not find anyone who fits those criteria :/ I also do not use ARC or CEC, only HDMI from the Roku and HTPC right to the XMC-1 and I have tried multiple cables with no improvement, just to add that info.
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Post by fbczar on Aug 31, 2019 22:51:16 GMT -5
You have probably been told many times before but just in case, I don't have this problem, never have, with the 1K HDMI board or the 4K board or with any version of the firmware. Admittedly I don't have a Roku or a HTPC, just a cable box, Sony 4K BDP and an Apple TV4K all connected via HDMI only and none of them display this problem. I also only use the XMC-1 remote control, with no ARC or CEC (they are the devil's disciples). Cheers Gary Thanks Gary. Yes, I know most people have not experienced this. I am hoping to find someone who HAS experienced the same problem and has also upgraded to the XMC-2 or RMC platform. I know I may not find anyone who fits those criteria :/ I also do not use ARC or CEC, only HDMI from the Roku and HTPC right to the XMC-1 and I have tried multiple cables with no improvement, just to add that info. Since the Roku is obviously the problem why not try a FireTV or AppleTV?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 1, 2019 1:11:37 GMT -5
Has anyone who had the problem with the XMC-1's overly aggressive muting of "silence" upgraded to the XMC-2? Is the problem resolved for you in the new model?? I know this did not affect everyone but it very much affects me and makes the XMC-1 very frustrating (almost impossible) to listen through. Background of the problem in case you are not aware: I love everything else about the XMC-1 but the constant cutting off of the first word someone says, each sentence, ruins the experience and has forced me to switch back to a $300 Onkyo receiver for most things. I can't listen to most of my podcasts through the XMC-1, watch youtube, or even many TV shows using my Roku or HTPC. It often gets stuck "muted" and will not make any sound at all unless I FF or REW a bit to force it to start making sound again. It is so frustrating so I hope it is resolved! One of most obvious offenders was Orange is the New Black, in which the opening song can't even play for 5 seconds and sticks the XMC-1 into "mute mode" almost immediately. I have to skip the entire intro EVERY time to have any audio at all come out. The only workaround I have found is to watch things through my HTPC instead of Roku and play a white noise file constantly on repeat in the background to trick the XMC-1, ruining the noise floor which is, ironically, what the muting was intended to improve :/ I really hope the new architecture resolves this issue. It makes every silence in a show or movie stressful, even when it is intended. Thanks! Since you mention YouTube, can you post a link to a specific file that gives you trouble? Having a file where it’s easy to reproduce the problem would make it more likely someone would try it (though this is the XMC-2 thread).
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Post by monkeyjump on Sept 1, 2019 10:25:35 GMT -5
Since the Roku is obviously the problem why not try a FireTV or AppleTV? I wish it was only the Roku but it is all (both) of my sources. It is also my home theater computer, which is my primary source. That is how I can play a white noise file behind what I am watching as a very annoying workaround. But thank you for the suggestion
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Post by monkeyjump on Sept 1, 2019 10:38:27 GMT -5
Since you mention YouTube, can you post a link to a specific file that gives you trouble? Having a file where it’s easy to reproduce the problem would make it more likely someone would try it (though this is the XMC-2 thread). Good idea
At approx :45 seconds he (apparently) says "mixed martial arts". Using either my Roku or my HTPC as the source, I only hear "martial arts". The word "mixed" is completely removed. It happens dozens of times even in this short 5 minute video.
This is repeatable every time using both of my sources. This is just one example. I am aware that it is due to a lack of dithering in the source material which triggers the XMC-1's automatic muting but this does not help me hear missing words in my content.
Thanks if you have any ideas or if you have a Roku 3 via HDMI and can test it on your system!
Edit: just tested and the problem exists with Dirac enabled or disabled, so it is not Dirac.
Edit 2: dug up my response from Emotiva support 1 year ago "There must be something with your particular streamer or media content that presents a caveat, unlike any other device." However I'm pretty sure my unit is defective since I have only seen a few other people experiencing this and my sources and files are not unusual.
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Post by creimes on Sept 1, 2019 12:21:53 GMT -5
Whats automatic muting ??
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Post by cwt on Sept 1, 2019 13:01:35 GMT -5
Whats automatic muting ?? Due to the XMC1'S edid locking on ; to stop any loud noise from a raw dts signal or similar coming through its necessary to mute the incoming signal slightly . Its a balancing act between missing notes and risking a decoder locking on a bit later ; in simplistic terms . Emo have tinkered with this timing previously iirc . It was a big issue with a Cary 11a I once had
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Post by monkeyjump on Sept 1, 2019 13:15:25 GMT -5
Whats automatic muting ?? There is a post by Keith about it somewhere here, I'll try to find it.
From memory: there is a chip inside the XMC-1 that, when it detects true silence (ie. no dithering), mutes something internally to artificially lower the noise floor. It then automatically un-mutes when it detects audio again but not fast enough, so it cuts of the first word or so after a person pauses, then resumes speaking. As I understand it, it is a hack to make us think the XMC-1 has a lower noise floor than it actually does. Normally if you crank up the volume while not playing any content, you would hear some "hiss" from a normal receiver/pre/pro etc. On the XMC-1, however, some of the internal circuitry is turned off during truly silent passages so there is less hiss when you crank the volume with no content playing.
Why not everyone experiences this problem is probably A. either that certain units are defective or B. only some of us notice it (it is VERY noticeable) or C. perhaps due to the content and source devices.
I only know about it from researching this problem previously. I would love it if Keith could confirm that there is no such "feature" in the XMC-2. That is what I'm trying to find out really as Keith's post indicated it is something they can not fix in the XMC-1 as it is built into the chip, however it makes my XMC-1 useless for me :/
(he is correct, If I go to a dictionary website and click "pronounce this word" all I hear is silence or the last half of the word if it is a long enough word)
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Post by creimes on Sept 1, 2019 13:40:13 GMT -5
Weird I have never noticed it in my system with the XMC-1, my Sherbourn PT-7020A had a delay locking on to certain audio streams sometimes audio would take almost a minute to start
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 1, 2019 14:12:16 GMT -5
It's a timing issue they have to play with, if they mute for too long they miss parts of words or the beginning of songs, if they don't mute long enough you might hear a pop in between.
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 1, 2019 17:01:26 GMT -5
My understanding was that the fix for popping only referred to DSD tracks; The "popping between tracks on DSD" is an issue that we've been aware of for some time. We have confirmed that strings of digital zeros inside otherwise normal audio tracks sometimes cause the XMC-1 to digitally mute. While this is not especially unusual behavior, and in fact most DAC chips have an option to do it, we would prefer that the XMC-1 not do it - because, when this happens, it may also bite off a few milliseconds of music. We have confirmed that the XMC-1's overall muting isn't the cause. We have also confirmed that the DACs in the XMC_1 aren't doing it (that function is disabled in our DACs). Therefore, we have concluded that this is probably being caused by the code in one of the DSPs - which is hard-coded into the DSP itself. Since most recordings use dithering, very few song tracks actually have stretches of digital zeros which would trigger this behavior, and, of those, most probably have a short lead-up to the audio after the silent space such that the muting is fully off before the music starts again. This means that it only happens with a few tracks, and, to put it bluntly, only one or two people have noticed it at all. (Unfortunately, since it seems to originate with the DSP code, which we don't have access to change, it seems unlikely that we will be able to resolve this.) From the above it would seem to me that your sources and/or the source material has "strings of zeros" embedded into it, ie; no dithering. Is this something that you have deliberately removed in the sources and/or deliberately avoid in the files that you download? Cheers Gary
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Post by monkeyjump on Sept 1, 2019 19:32:57 GMT -5
From the above it would seem to me that your sources and/or the source material has "strings of zeros" embedded into it, ie; no dithering. Is this something that you have deliberately removed in the sources and/or deliberately avoid in the files that you download? Cheers Gary Thanks Gary. No, I do not alter my downloads or do anything unusual. In an above post (LINK HERE) I provided a link to an example YouTube video which exhibits the problem repeatably for me. All of the videos on that YouTube channel (and many more downloaded or YouTube videos) exhibit the same issue for me when played through either my Roku 3 or my Windows 7 PC, both connected directly to the XMC-1 via HDMI, no ARC or anything. I don't know how to check to see if there is a string of zeros in the file, but if you do, I would be interested to know the result!
If you follow that link and hear him say "mixed martial arts" instead of (silence)"martial arts" then your unit does not exhibit the same behavior as mine. I cannot hear the word "mixed" through either of my sources and this is an unaltered video played directly from YouTube. It is just one of many videos exhibiting this problem for me.
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Post by marcl on Sept 2, 2019 8:37:14 GMT -5
I have a Win 7 PC using JRiver as the audio device connected to XMC-1 both HDMI and USB. I tried the Youtube link using both inputs and it worked fine with both. I have never had this issue with my AppleTV either.
That said, when I play music from the PC I do occasionally see the issue where the first couple notes are cut off. I also stream multichannel music HDMI from the PC through my OPPO 205 which is connected HDMI to the XMC-1, and I sometimes lose the first couple notes. I have used a DR HDMI EDID device to try to calm down switching issues on the HDMI input from the PC ... didn't seem to make a difference. And, when I do Room EQ Wizard measurements from the PC over HDMI I have to play the noise level check before every measurement and then quickly click Start or the beginning of the measurement sweep may be cut off. I have not had muting issues with AppleTV, but I do occasionally have a problem where XMC-1 does not recognize Surround audio mode. Rebooting ATV and XMC-1 usually fixes this issue.
So ... seems like the same sorts of issue in different circumstances. And in keeping with the topic, I too am interested to hear if anyone has these issues with the XMC-2.
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 2, 2019 13:00:18 GMT -5
I also played the video from my iPad firstly via earphones to confirm the dialogue was all there (it is) and then via airplay to the ATV4K and XMC-1 and “mixed” is definitely truncated. I’m going to now test a couple of modes...........music, movie, stereo and direct ..... they all display the same issue. No DIRAC enabled. Next test, I tried slow payback speeds, at 75% “mixed” is still missing, but at 50% it’s clearly audible. There is such a small gap/pause between “market for” and “mixed marshal arts” that I’d be very surprised if it’s anything to do with auto muting. Just before it, the gap between “if” and “somebody” is much longer without any word loss/truncation. If the XMC-1 was auto muting then it would do it there as well. My guess is something in the audio track triggers the muting and it isn’t just that it’s a silent passage. Maybe KeithL or Lonnie can shed some light on what it is. Cheers Gary
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Sept 2, 2019 15:08:02 GMT -5
Some quirks on the XMC2 - one week update.
Obviously I’m generally very happy with the XMC2 but there are a few quirks, some that may be fixable and some maybe not.
1. DTS Blu-Ray issue - when new movie encoded In DTS inserted in my Blu-ray player, the mode changes to DTS Neural:X and there is no sound. It takes several attempts to get the XMC2 out of this mode and into DTS MA 7.1. It works fine afterwards but this seems like a bug.
2. ARC doesn’t always work but it eventually locks in. I don’t think this issue is solely due to the XMC2. The LG OLED is inconsistent - hopefully the Hdmi 2.1 cable I just got could help with this but not too confident.
3. “Please wait” - the menu system is relatively slow (like an old computer). I’m not sure why it’s this slow...does it need more RAM? It would be nice if the operation was a little snappier. Even the cheap receivers operate faster. So you will get this “please wait” a lot.
4. Sometimes when listening to music, I lose a couple seconds on the first song.
So far that’s pretty much it. It’s been a great experience thus far and I’m very glad I got the XMC2.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Sept 3, 2019 22:21:26 GMT -5
The DTS Neural X works now but I’m not sure if it’s because I hooked up the 2 ceiling speakers and that’s why it works now.
The ARC is working better with the 2.1 cable too. It’s pretty reliable now.
So, it looks like the only the remaining and it may not be fixable is the “please wait” issue.
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Post by brazensol on Sept 7, 2019 10:42:38 GMT -5
Any other owners care to comment on XMC-2 performance?
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Post by EmoRick on Sept 8, 2019 1:33:57 GMT -5
Hi,
Today I install my new XMC-2. For the record I am coming from a Anthem MRX720 and before that a XMC-1.
So unpack the XMC-2. Thanks Emotiva for the t-shirt :-)
The processor is very well pack and all the packaging scream quality.
After the unpack ceremony, I plug my speakers and other gears. I have a 5.1.2 setup. For video source I have a cable box, Apple TV, Zappiti Pro and a PC.
I did a quick speaker setup and start my first testing.
The first good news is that all my HDMI connection seem to work really well. From my cable box 720p device to my 4k Apple TV everything switch fast and work every time. I did many back and forth and for now pretty happy with the stability.
Now for the sound quality, it’s early but the XMC-2 first impression do sound better than my calibrated Anthem. The sound seem just right.
So I am only at day one but first impression is good. Now I will go and play more critical music and movies and report back in a couples of days.
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Post by rogersch on Sept 8, 2019 3:41:32 GMT -5
As an early owner of the XMC-1 and still being a bit annoyed about the long boot times when switching on the XMC-1 I`m curious to know how long it takes to boot the XMC-2 from a full power down. Did somebody also measured the power consumption when the XMC-2 is in standby mode? Due to the ridiculously high power usage, imho, in "standby modus" of the XMC-1 I always fully power down the XMC-1.
Thanks for the answers.
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