Chris
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Post by Chris on Aug 15, 2020 12:28:16 GMT -5
I went with "Sm Top Middle:. There is a dramatic increase in ambience! BTW, I am using the Netflix show, "The Order", to test Atmos. It really exercises the surround sound and Atmos effects. I also have the movie Midway on 4k Blu-ray that is supposed to have one of the best Atmos soundtracks. Thanks.
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Aug 15, 2020 14:04:43 GMT -5
Reading the Dolby Atmos whitepaper, I decided to set my two Martin Logan AFX speakers as "Dolby Enabled Middle". Dolby Enabled is the terminology for the type of speaker I am using.
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Post by megash0n on Aug 15, 2020 16:06:25 GMT -5
I went with "Sm Top Middle:. There is a dramatic increase in ambience! BTW, I am using the Netflix show, "The Order", to test Atmos. It really exercises the surround sound and Atmos effects. I also have the movie Midway on 4k Blu-ray that is supposed to have one of the best Atmos soundtracks. Thanks. the only time you would use Dolby Enabled is if the speaker sits in some location designed to bounce off the ceiling. Otherwise, it is a Top or a Height. It seems that most prefer the sound of Tops with both codecs. In my opinion, DTS:X sounds horrible with Heights and just " Bad" with Tops. For others, DTS:x seems to work well for them. As always, try different settings and really listen for the dynamics and broadness of the sound. Pick what you like best. Be sure to test DTS with Surround mode vs DTS:x.
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Aug 15, 2020 16:20:32 GMT -5
I went with "Sm Top Middle:. There is a dramatic increase in ambience! BTW, I am using the Netflix show, "The Order", to test Atmos. It really exercises the surround sound and Atmos effects. I also have the movie Midway on 4k Blu-ray that is supposed to have one of the best Atmos soundtracks. Thanks. the only time you would use Dolby Enabled is if the speaker sits in some location designed to bounce off the ceiling. Otherwise, it is a Top or a Height. It seems that most prefer the sound of Tops with both codecs. In my opinion, DTS:X sounds horrible with Heights and just " Bad" with Tops. For others, DTS:x seems to work well for them. As always, try different settings and really listen for the dynamics and broadness of the sound. Pick what you like best. Be sure to test DTS with Surround mode vs DTS:x. "Bounce off the ceiling". Thats exactly what I have - "MartinLogan Motion AFX Dolby Atmos enabled speakers are designed to create a height layer of sound". Martin Logan AFX
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Post by hsamwel on Aug 23, 2020 18:20:24 GMT -5
Yes, all my level settings are positive. I have revised with a little more boost since my amp has less gain. There is plenty of sound coming out of my Atmos speakers, especially in DD surround up mix mode. I'm not sure about your Top Middle setup. I specifically printed out the official Dolby 5.1.2 PDF and they show the speakers in the front on top of the Left and Right front speakers. I had to compromise because my Martin Logan ESL speakers don't have a top! I the Atmos speakers on stands right next to the front speakers. They are only about 25" in height so I'm a little low but still in the ball park. Raising them higer would block parts of my TV. At this point I am not using Dirac and don't have plans to do so in the future. Yes, the speakers should sit on top of the front speakers but your compromise will be ok.- the issue is how you configure them in the XMC-2 setup menu With 5.1.2 and 7.1.2 using ceiling mounted speakers (Dolby doesn't support direct firing wall mounted Atmos speakers) when there are just.2 Atmos speakers, they should be configured as Top Middle. This way they get some rear and front height sound directed to them. If they are configured as Top Front then they only get front sound direction. With Atmos Enabled speakers, Dolby doesn't actually specify anything at all for how they should be configured in the Processor! Aren’t these just recommended setup options? Atmos will redirect any object sounds to the nearest speaker it finds.. What speaker he chooses mostly depends on placement from MLP. But I do agree that with a x.x.2 setup I would do a top middle. Top front: About 45degrees infront of MLP on the ceiling. Front height: About 30degrees infront of MLP above front LR on the wall or ceiling depending on height. Top middle: Right above, or slightly infront with a x.x.2 setup. Dolby enabled: Usually follows the other height speakers but depends on where you bounce from. I guess dolby enabled middle would be best in a x.x.2 setup as well. But placed on the side surrounds then I would gather. Not taking into account the width.. There’s an recommended angle and placement for that to. But the room mostly guides this and following the front LR line or a little inside usually is ok. I know you probably know this already, more directed at Chris.
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Post by markc on Aug 24, 2020 12:22:23 GMT -5
Yes, the speakers should sit on top of the front speakers but your compromise will be ok.- the issue is how you configure them in the XMC-2 setup menu With 5.1.2 and 7.1.2 using ceiling mounted speakers (Dolby doesn't support direct firing wall mounted Atmos speakers) when there are just.2 Atmos speakers, they should be configured as Top Middle. This way they get some rear and front height sound directed to them. If they are configured as Top Front then they only get front sound direction. With Atmos Enabled speakers, Dolby doesn't actually specify anything at all for how they should be configured in the Processor! Aren’t these just recommended setup options? Atmos will redirect any object sounds to the nearest speaker it finds.. What speaker he chooses mostly depends on placement from MLP. But I do agree that with a x.x.2 setup I would do a top middle. Top front: About 45degrees infront of MLP on the ceiling. Front height: About 30degrees infront of MLP above front LR on the wall or ceiling depending on height. Top middle: Right above, or slightly infront with a x.x.2 setup. Dolby enabled: Usually follows the other height speakers but depends on where you bounce from. I guess dolby enabled middle would be best in a x.x.2 setup as well. But placed on the side surrounds then I would gather. Not taking into account the width.. There’s an recommended angle and placement for that to. But the room mostly guides this and following the front LR line or a little inside usually is ok. I know you probably know this already, more directed at Chris. Dolby is quite prescriptive for it's sets of configurations. It is DTS that touted itself as mixing to whatever speakers are available, The problem with your rationale is that Atmos itself doesn't "find" any speakers - it relies on which of the possible options it offers that the Processor chooses to translate to and programmed to report. I couldn't find anywhere what the list of options are for speakers that the Atmos decoder will accept as viable. e.g. is Height middle an option? We may be able to set a speaker as "Height Middle" on the XMC-2/RMC-1 but what is this then translated to for the Atmos decoder. People using Front height and rear height instead of the Dolby specified ceiling speakers and designating them as "Front height" and "Rear height" - where does Atmos mix the overhead positional audio to? Does it discard some of it? All of it?, Does it mix it equally to the existing height speakers even though they are not overhead? Does it mix it to all ear level speakers so that the sound is equal from all and in the centre of the room, even if not overhead? A mixture of these? See Keith's post here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1000906/thread
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Post by hsamwel on Aug 24, 2020 14:48:03 GMT -5
Aren’t these just recommended setup options? Atmos will redirect any object sounds to the nearest speaker it finds.. What speaker he chooses mostly depends on placement from MLP. But I do agree that with a x.x.2 setup I would do a top middle. Top front: About 45degrees infront of MLP on the ceiling. Front height: About 30degrees infront of MLP above front LR on the wall or ceiling depending on height. Top middle: Right above, or slightly infront with a x.x.2 setup. Dolby enabled: Usually follows the other height speakers but depends on where you bounce from. I guess dolby enabled middle would be best in a x.x.2 setup as well. But placed on the side surrounds then I would gather. Not taking into account the width.. There’s an recommended angle and placement for that to. But the room mostly guides this and following the front LR line or a little inside usually is ok. I know you probably know this already, more directed at Chris. Dolby is quite prescriptive for it's sets of configurations. It is DTS that touted itself as mixing to whatever speakers are available, The problem with your rationale is that Atmos itself doesn't "find" any speakers - it relies on which of the possible options it offers that the Processor chooses to translate to and programmed to report. I couldn't find anywhere what the list of options are for speakers that the Atmos decoder will accept as viable. e.g. is Height middle an option? We may be able to set a speaker as "Height Middle" on the XMC-2/RMC-1 but what is this then translated to for the Atmos decoder. People using Front height and rear height instead of the Dolby specified ceiling speakers and designating them as "Front height" and "Rear height" - where does Atmos mix the overhead positional audio to? Does it discard some of it? All of it?, Does it mix it equally to the existing height speakers even though they are not overhead? Does it mix it to all ear level speakers so that the sound is equal from all and in the centre of the room, even if not overhead? A mixture of these? See Keith's post here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1000906/threadThe difference is not how the sound is output through objects. It’s that DTS accepts almost any speaker position. While Dolby ”requires” certain predestined positions. Dolby’s way is easier for the users and for the decoder. The decoder knows exactly were speakers are. They both output sound to the nearest speakers when objects are used. Of course having only rear heights when sound effects from a movie mostly are placed in front above will make it sound ”less” or probably mixed to several near speakers, but it will work. As long as the used speaker position is within the list of usable Atmos speakers. Height middle does not exist with Atmos. And of course would not work well with Atmos sound. However DTS would have no problem with it. Dolby only have 10 height speakers within its standard. Front/Rear heights LR and Top Front/Middle/Rear LR. As long as any of those are used Atmos will sound good. The problem with bad sounding mixes is when they lock sound to specific speakers. Like most DTS:X mixes which are 7.1.4, with Front/Rear heights according DTS standard and users having other speaker settings.
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Post by carbonsummit on Aug 23, 2021 16:56:49 GMT -5
Yes, the speakers should sit on top of the front speakers but your compromise will be ok.- the issue is how you configure them in the XMC-2 setup menu With 5.1.2 and 7.1.2 using ceiling mounted speakers (Dolby doesn't support direct firing wall mounted Atmos speakers) when there are just.2 Atmos speakers, they should be configured as Top Middle. This way they get some rear and front height sound directed to them. If they are configured as Top Front then they only get front sound direction. With Atmos Enabled speakers, Dolby doesn't actually specify anything at all for how they should be configured in the Processor! Okay I am going to give your suggestion a try. I am confused about whether I should use "Sm Top Middle" as you seem to suggest versus "Dolby Enabled Middle" Again, I am using Martin Logan AFX speakers which are touted as being "Dolby Enabled" and usually meant to sit on top of a traditional floor stand speaker cabinet. I have a pair of Klipsch RP-500sa that I'm using as bounce/reflective speakers in the front. I started with one pair wanting to try them to see if they gave me enough sound to avoid trying to do the in ceiling speakers. I use a Dolby Atmos demo disc to judge what I'm getting and I can tell even as bounce speakers they are making a difference. I know people are using RP-500sa as height channels and Klipsch even has a switch for a different crossover when used at height channels but I wonder how that placement affects sound when the processor is trying to send the Atmos sound based on you choosing ceiling or reflective Atmos. www.soundandvision.com/content/do-wall-mounted-speakers-work-atmos-setupSeems like a lot of articles are saying they are not the right way to do it? I just wonder if since Dolby holds all the cards to how the signal is processed if you are not using ceiling or reflective are you getting the correct sound signal from the processor? Yes you'll get something from the height speakers but is it the correct sound for that moment in the movie since Atmos doesn't have height channels? I've read that guys have gone from reflective to hanging them on the wall with great results but I question if they are really getting what Dolby intended it to sound like. I have no idea, I'm really asking a question looking for ideas from others who have been using Atmos longer than I have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2021 17:04:16 GMT -5
Okay I am going to give your suggestion a try. I am confused about whether I should use "Sm Top Middle" as you seem to suggest versus "Dolby Enabled Middle" Again, I am using Martin Logan AFX speakers which are touted as being "Dolby Enabled" and usually meant to sit on top of a traditional floor stand speaker cabinet. I have a pair of Klipsch RP-500sa that I'm using as bounce/reflective speakers in the front. I started with one pair wanting to try them to see if they gave me enough sound to avoid trying to do the in ceiling speakers. I use a Dolby Atmos demo disc to judge what I'm getting and I can tell even as bounce speakers they are making a difference. I know people are using RP-500sa as height channels and Klipsch even has a switch for a different crossover when used at height channels but I wonder how that placement affects sound when the processor is trying to send the Atmos sound based on you choosing ceiling or reflective Atmos. www.soundandvision.com/content/do-wall-mounted-speakers-work-atmos-setupSeems like a lot of articles are saying they are not the right way to do it? I just wonder if since Dolby holds all the cards to how the signal is processed if you are not using ceiling or reflective are you getting the correct sound signal from the processor? Yes you'll get something from the height speakers but is it the correct sound for that moment in the movie since Atmos doesn't have height channels? I've read that guys have gone from reflective to hanging them on the wall with great results but I question if they are really getting what Dolby intended it to sound like. I have no idea, I'm really asking a question looking for ideas from others who have been using Atmos longer than I have. Since they are "bounce" speakers anyone ever try to use reflective surfaces to where they are bouncing of off?
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Post by carbonsummit on Aug 26, 2021 16:34:15 GMT -5
Okay I am going to give your suggestion a try. I am confused about whether I should use "Sm Top Middle" as you seem to suggest versus "Dolby Enabled Middle" Again, I am using Martin Logan AFX speakers which are touted as being "Dolby Enabled" and usually meant to sit on top of a traditional floor stand speaker cabinet. I have a pair of Klipsch RP-500sa that I'm using as bounce/reflective speakers in the front. I started with one pair wanting to try them to see if they gave me enough sound to avoid trying to do the in ceiling speakers. I use a Dolby Atmos demo disc to judge what I'm getting and I can tell even as bounce speakers they are making a difference. I know people are using RP-500sa as height channels and Klipsch even has a switch for a different crossover when used at height channels but I wonder how that placement affects sound when the processor is trying to send the Atmos sound based on you choosing ceiling or reflective Atmos. www.soundandvision.com/content/do-wall-mounted-speakers-work-atmos-setupSeems like a lot of articles are saying they are not the right way to do it? I just wonder if since Dolby holds all the cards to how the signal is processed if you are not using ceiling or reflective are you getting the correct sound signal from the processor? Yes you'll get something from the height speakers but is it the correct sound for that moment in the movie since Atmos doesn't have height channels? I've read that guys have gone from reflective to hanging them on the wall with great results but I question if they are really getting what Dolby intended it to sound like. I have no idea, I'm really asking a question looking for ideas from others who have been using Atmos longer than I have. I moved the Klipsch RP-500sa from on my front L&R to the wall above them. I will say the Atmos parts sounds "louder". I switched the crossover switch from Atmos to surround, and adjusted the levels to be correct. So louder may not be the right word. But more intense sound but I feel it might be more directed to the sitting area. The reflective sound was a lot more subtle but I felt it was more of a floating sound. I feel like I know the sound is coming from the height speakers where as the reflective sounded more like a cool enveloping effect. I have a HVAC soffit running through my basement where my HT is set up. I think in the end between the soffit and the wood trim in the room the front height speakers are now approx 78" off the ground. I've read a few places that they recommend front height speakers to be about 8' (96") off the ground. I wonder if mine are too low and that is why they sound more focused than enveloping? Before when I was using them as reflective speakers I had them on top of the Klipsch Heresy you see between my R&L and the TV. The Heresy are not hooked up, they are just short speaker stands to experiment with. My logic being the difference in height from the Forte ii and the Heresy would compensate for the ceiling height lost to the HVAC soffit. It seemed to work really well actually. Any thoughts from guys who have figured out the Atmos speaker placement issues in their house?
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Post by carbonsummit on Aug 26, 2021 16:41:46 GMT -5
And yes I have a plan to hid the speaker wires once I get this all figured out! That looks ghetto!!!
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