cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 4,927
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 2, 2009 15:34:44 GMT -5
Here is my friend's reply.....he is considering the Cambridge Audio magic: can Lonnie or someone from Emotiva answer his concerns?
"Looks like only 1 digital input where you can connect either format. The Cambridge Audio has 2 selectable (from front panel) digital inputs. Each selected digital input has either coaxial OR Toslink. So there are actually a total of two Coaxial inputs, and 2 Optical inputs, and then a separate USB input. The Emotiva looks to have only 1 digital input, and the format can be chosen for that 1 input as required. This won't meet my needs unfortunately."
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MikeWI
Emo VIPs
DC-1, ERC-1, USP-1, UPA-2, Sub 10, Emotiva 4S
Posts: 346
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Post by MikeWI on Sept 2, 2009 20:55:35 GMT -5
I like the possibility of a volume control on the DAC -- which it looks like the larger version would implement.
Any updates on progress on the DAC?
Thanks,
Mike
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Post by dgenske on Sept 2, 2009 23:22:08 GMT -5
Like other forum members, if I had to choose, would prefer the rack-mounted version. That said, I see value to both and may actually purchase both--the rack-mount version (w/volume control) for the distributed audio system and the compact version for the headphone setup. On a loosely related note, anyone care to engage in wild speculation as to which may be the better approach: Denon 2800II DVD player as a transport with the Emotiva DAC vs. the ERC-1? Also, don't know if others are thinking of using these DACs with an Airport Express, but I found this interesting with respect to losing signal lock. www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/505apple/ Is this a design consideration for these products?
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Post by GreenKiwi on Sept 3, 2009 0:40:47 GMT -5
no offence dougie but have you heard any high end soundcards on good speaker setup? I'm not talking about creative etc. but an actual pro soundcard? I have an RME Audio HDSP-9632, it holds up quite well for itself. It was $600 or so and it only got moved out of the system that it was in because that system got upgraded to a Benchmark DAC-1. I'll probably be selling it if this comes out RME also has some interesting firewire products too. I figure if it's good enough for the recording studios, it's probably good enough for me.
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Post by vincedog3 on Sept 3, 2009 0:50:07 GMT -5
wow now that is some sweet DACS. Geez. Gotta get them now. Now you did say Balanced was high voltage. Now are you talking in the +4dbu, because if you are, my Tascam 52 Reel To Reel has found a new friend to play with. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by vincedog3 on Sept 3, 2009 0:55:12 GMT -5
I know some people get "jittery" at the thought, but a USB port would be a nice feature. I'm assuming a USB port would be necessary. I understand USB has Jitter issues, would the Emotiva DACs be prone to that too?? Thank you very much for your consideration.
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Post by puppetz on Sept 9, 2009 22:30:06 GMT -5
I'm very interested in the Emo DAC, whether it comes big or small. Icing on the cake would be a DAC/iPod dock combo that would bypass the DAC in the iPod. I imported all of my CDs to iTunes using Apple Lossless. When the XMC-1 comes out, I was planning on getting a Wadia iTransport to go along with it. But I would much prefer an all-Emotiva solution (both from a quality and price standpoint). Just my $.02.
-Nick
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ratmice
Emo VIPs
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Posts: 1,853
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Post by ratmice on Sept 12, 2009 8:54:18 GMT -5
Was there any news on this DAC bad-boy at emofest?
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MikeWI
Emo VIPs
DC-1, ERC-1, USP-1, UPA-2, Sub 10, Emotiva 4S
Posts: 346
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Post by MikeWI on Sept 12, 2009 14:05:15 GMT -5
Was there any news on this DAC bad-boy at emofest? +1
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Juice
Minor Hero
Push the little Cart!
Posts: 53
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Post by Juice on Sept 15, 2009 23:34:20 GMT -5
If this is using the same internals basically as the ERC-1, would it be possible to add a few digital inputs on that unit for minimal cost, maybe a ERC-2 that has an extra SPDIF in and a USB in for ipods, computers, etc. I know that the Marantz has a Ipod USB on the SA8003 and SimAudio has many of the Moon players with SPDIF digital in. If this DAC is going to be $300, I would gladly spend an extra $150 on the ERC to have this built in. Also I hope some of the features for this DAC are maybe being thought of for the XMC-1, again the USB with Ipod support would be huge, I find my Wadia Itransport sounds as good as any cd player when connected to a good DAC, and I can fit lots of CDs on 120GB. Plus if this is a very good DAC layout, using it on the XMC-1 would give three different units sharing the same layout meaning less cost in product research and less number of different parts being used among different units.
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Post by souprknowva on Sept 21, 2009 0:09:56 GMT -5
Lonnie, Did some research on that AD1955, dunno if its as good as the pcm1704uk, but it must be close. I also noted you would be using a fully differential design. does that mean youll be using 4 of the 1955's in mono mode? please say you are snr of 123db in mono mode Also my votes in for the larger design, put the best power supply in that you guys can, with plenty of filter capacitance 50,000 uF should be good, or more if you want. Im hoping that you guys can make this thing very well, ive been looking for a dac now for a while, and i was about to pull the trigger on a Audio GD dac, but in order to get XLR outs, you had to get one of the ones with 8 pcm1704uk's which were a little spendier, and you really only need 4 dacs for fully differential output. Oh and please no volume control, the absolute worst place to do volume control is digitally, the dithering required is not what we audiophiles want, analog is far superior. and i know you already said it but im happy you're going with the discrete design, op amps are definitely a no go for the best audio. Thanks Chase
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Post by littlesaint on Sept 21, 2009 6:42:04 GMT -5
Lonnie, Did some research on that AD1955, dunno if its as good as the pcm1704uk, but it must be close. I also noted you would be using a fully differential design. does that mean youll be using 4 of the 1955's in mono mode? please say you are snr of 123db in mono mode Also my votes in for the larger design, put the best power supply in that you guys can, with plenty of filter capacitance 50,000 uF should be good, or more if you want. Im hoping that you guys can make this thing very well, ive been looking for a dac now for a while, and i was about to pull the trigger on a Audio GD dac, but in order to get XLR outs, you had to get one of the ones with 8 pcm1704uk's which were a little spendier, and you really only need 4 dacs for fully differential output. Oh and please no volume control, the absolute worst place to do volume control is digitally, the dithering required is not what we audiophiles want, analog is far superior. and i know you already said it but im happy you're going with the discrete design, op amps are definitely a no go for the best audio. Thanks Chase The volume control just sets the attenuation level in the DAC(s), a function that is already built-in. To bypass you just set the volume to 100%.
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Post by souprknowva on Sept 21, 2009 10:44:48 GMT -5
i got that, but having to have a know that would set that would itself degrade the quality, if only by a little but. And the attenuation in the digital realm shouldnt be done, as the dithering effectively shortens the word length of each sample. This is something where the people dont know whats good for them, and wants it for convenience even though its bad. Emotiva's gotta save them from themselves, it would be much better to get a preamp with true analog bass management and analog volume attenuation. Im waiting for the XSP oh another question though for the emo crew, will the DAC have some sort of built in reclocker so that the quality of the dac isn't transport dependent?
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Post by littlesaint on Sept 21, 2009 11:09:24 GMT -5
So your saying the Berkeley Audio Desgin Alpha is flawed because it has digital attenuation? I wonder why it gets such high praise then.
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Post by souprknowva on Sept 21, 2009 15:29:00 GMT -5
So your saying the Berkeley Audio Desgin Alpha is flawed because it has digital attenuation? I wonder why it gets such high praise then. haha, ok, ill give im sure it can be done, but not at the prices were looking at paying from emotiva
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maddog07
Emo VIPs
"hearing" is a subjective perception!
Posts: 108
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Post by maddog07 on Sept 22, 2009 23:15:34 GMT -5
If you only have half an hour to kill, why would you want to spend most of it changing out CD's when you could just make a play list on a PC? I LOVE CDs...like the cases, the art, the words...but I think in the near future, CDs are just the source...used to load music onto a server. even further, I think the optical disc as a storage medium may and should go bye-bye.... we can get a 128 Gig USB Flash Drive.... why do I need to store music on a 700 Meg CD. the laser mechanism, disc drive, correction circuitry, etc. are the most expensive and problem prone parts of a CD player.... eliminate them!
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maddog07
Emo VIPs
"hearing" is a subjective perception!
Posts: 108
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Post by maddog07 on Sept 22, 2009 23:27:04 GMT -5
An interesting stance to take? Why would I want to pay more if I can get a good DAC for a good price?If EMO wants to do a DAC based on the same DAC as the ERC-1, then EMO might as well incorporate the access to DAC on the ERC-1, everything that is needed for a DAC is already there. The additional cost would be minor, this will allow the owner to be able to just throw in a CD instead of firing up his/her computer to play some music. There are times when I just play one CD through my CDP because I may only half an hour to kill. A combo CDP/DAC would accomplish both at a reasonable additional cost to the ERC-1 (just like the Cambridge A - 840C). I believe the new McIntosh MCD 500 uses the Sabre chip, however, the design and the implementation of the MCD 500 is their own design. I am with you on the EMO's philosophy of good value for $$$ that is why I think that EMO can design and build a medium/high quality DAC to compete with Benchmark/Del Canto at a much more competitive price. EMO may have the economy of scale that other niches players do not have (Neko, Stello). Why would I want to pay more if I can get a good DAC for a good price?There already are tons of good to excellent (for this price point) sub $500 DACs out there . I am not sure if we need another one. I am not sure if EMO will be able to attract the crowd that are in this target market. What I think is an opportunity for EMO is to produce the Benchmark USB quality or higher (both the built and sound) and priced it very very competitively to attract a mid level DAC buyers. Since DAC is still a hot product and assuming that EMO can succeed in its new DAC, it will be a proof of its "best bang for the buck" philisophy to the general public, leverage this to the rest of the product lines and ........there is not limit to future success. mP It is a very interesting argument you make, but I believe we can build a fully differential 192 DAC with selectable inputs, discrete output stage, remote, etc, for around 300.00 and meet or exceed the quality of the Benchmark. I could be wrong here, so don't hold me to it, but it really shoudn't cost anything close to what others are asking. ;D Mr. L. - do it, do it now!!! You will need to hire more emotivian's just to ship them. Produce a differentially balanced, upsampling, oversampling DAC with SPDIF, Toslink, XLR and USB inputs and a volume control that does not throw away bits to decrease volume and a robust discrete output stage with a low output impedance to properly drive an amp directly... put it in a typically nice Emo full size case, bring it in under $500 and it will quickly become your best seller as soon as everyone hears about it and figures out they can hook up their CD player, Satellite Radio, Squeezebox, internet radio, etc. to it... it will be all over but the cashing of the checks..... I have been looking for something like this since 1989. I have been a fan of a certain company's digital products since that time - no name dropping here. But their products from the 90's will compete with anything I have ever heard, including everything digital I've ever heard at RMAF. Which is why I still own company X's digital products. But they cost $1,000's.... not hundred's. Just Do It - git-r-done.
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Post by littlesaint on Sept 23, 2009 6:48:26 GMT -5
I LOVE CDs...like the cases, the art, the words...but I think in the near future, CDs are just the source...used to load music onto a server. even further, I think the optical disc as a storage medium may and should go bye-bye.... we can get a 128 Gig USB Flash Drive.... why do I need to store music on a 700 Meg CD. the laser mechanism, disc drive, correction circuitry, etc. are the most expensive and problem prone parts of a CD player.... eliminate them! On the other hand, I just received my Led Zeppelin mini-LP box set, and the replica LP artwork is fantastic. Same can be said for the new Beatles sets. Of course, I'll still be ripping these to my server, but I really like the effort made with these to offer something tangible other than just the music.
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Post by dutchingv on Sept 23, 2009 16:48:57 GMT -5
I LOVE CDs...like the cases, the art, the words...but I think in the near future, CDs are just the source...used to load music onto a server. even further, I think the optical disc as a storage medium may and should go bye-bye.... we can get a 128 Gig USB Flash Drive.... why do I need to store music on a 700 Meg CD. the laser mechanism, disc drive, correction circuitry, etc. are the most expensive and problem prone parts of a CD player.... eliminate them! It doesn't make sense for you to store your music on a 700 MB CD. But for an artist that wants to distribute a single album it's more than enough most of the time. BTW, 128 GB of pressed CDs is still quite a bit cheaper than a 128 GB USB flash drive. Even as CD-R it's currently about a 10th of the price of a 128 GB USB drive. I like having my CDs as backup in the closet in case my media storage and backups have problems.
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maddog07
Emo VIPs
"hearing" is a subjective perception!
Posts: 108
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Post by maddog07 on Sept 23, 2009 22:06:56 GMT -5
even further, I think the optical disc as a storage medium may and should go bye-bye.... we can get a 128 Gig USB Flash Drive.... why do I need to store music on a 700 Meg CD. the laser mechanism, disc drive, correction circuitry, etc. are the most expensive and problem prone parts of a CD player.... eliminate them! It doesn't make sense for you to store your music on a 700 MB CD. But for an artist that wants to distribute a single album it's more than enough most of the time. BTW, 128 GB of pressed CDs is still quite a bit cheaper than a 128 GB USB flash drive. Even as CD-R it's currently about a 10th of the price of a 128 GB USB drive. I like having my CDs as backup in the closet in case my media storage and backups have problems. the days of the spinning laser read optical disc are numbered... whether it be a flash drive or some other kind of static memory device, optical disc will be obsoleted and the newer, smaller, more dense media technologies, will become the "vehicle" for which to get music onto your Server/hard disc, etc. Which you can then backup to another disc and then on to mag tape if you wish to BU your BU - like is done in every data center in the world. Digital storage, like all other computer technology, gets better, cheaper and faster every day. If albums equivalent to the amount of data on the current CD were distributed via static memory sticks instead of a CD, how expensive do you think they would be? Economies of scale would kick-in in a big way in a hurry. I have had this discussion with multi people who work in this industry and they all told me this is where we're headed. I didn't dream this up on my own - But time will tell - as it always does. ** just enjoy the music **
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