Chris
Emo VIPs
Posts: 424
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Post by Chris on Aug 20, 2020 18:10:43 GMT -5
I was watching a YouTube video on a brand new HT Processor (name starts with Mono).
One of the interesting features is the ability to adjust all the settings via a built in Web Interface. I would very much like to see such a feature implemented into current or future Emotiva Processors.
The first good reason for such a feature is that it obviates the need for dedicated apps for Android or IOS, etc. Any device will work with a web browser such as a phone, table, or computer.
Secondly, it should be fairly trivial to implement and maintain since it is just HTML, JavaScript, etc. I know I oversimplify but not by much?
For the end user, it would be a real time saver and easier to maintain and setup a processor.
For example, I have been spending a lot of time trying to get my volume levels correct. Just today, I discovered that I had set an input level trim to -3.0db. I did this while testing and didn't mean to leave it there. I only just stumbled across it. Because of the very linear command line interface currently used in Emotiva processors, it is very hard to see where one has been and where to go next. Having a web page with all the settings in one place for a given input would be a real bonus.
I hope to see this in future firmware?
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Post by JKCashin on Aug 20, 2020 18:56:42 GMT -5
Doesn't need firmware changes at all... there's already an AIP for interfacing. Just needs the glue. I am working on a project that I could leverage to provide this, but it won't happen for a long time unfortunately. Willing to assist anyone else who is interested.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 20, 2020 19:18:55 GMT -5
Doesn't need firmware changes at all... there's already an AIP for interfacing. Just needs the glue. I am working on a project that I could leverage to provide this, but it won't happen for a long time unfortunately. Willing to assist anyone else who is interested. As far as I know they haven’t published the API for the G3P, just the XMC-1 which could be considered a subset. Also AFIK, the API only allows for real time selections (aka Remote Control), not actual settings updates (that we would currently do in the menu), which is what chris was asking for. A web backend for setup would be great, but I doubt trivial. That said, there’s no reason not to try and fully exploit whatever features are there to be exploited. While I’d be more partial to a dedicated iPadOS App, as I think it could present a more intuitive and user friendly UI (read ‘cool’ 😎), I don’t discount the advantage of a browser interface that works for everyone.
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Post by doc1963 on Aug 21, 2020 9:04:06 GMT -5
I know I'm likely in a very small minority, but if it makes for a more stable product (especially on the video side of things), I'm all for ditching the OSD altogether. I find the HTTP setup that Monolith chose to be very clever and intriguing. I also remember Lonnie discussing how the OSD "complicates" things. I took me awhile to find his original posts, but you'll find them HERE and HERE. I've always enjoyed the convenience of an OSD, but times are changing and the technology is becoming more complicated. Knowing that I can control my entire system from the comfort of my chair using the Harmony app on my iPad, I have no problem setting up and/or controlling my processor from there as well. For those who might be interested in seeing Youthman's " HTP-1 Unboxing and Setup" video, you can find that... HERE. You can skip the first 10 minutes to get straight to the HTTP setup.
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Post by davidl81 on Aug 21, 2020 9:20:49 GMT -5
I know I'm likely in a very small minority, but if it makes for a more stable product (especially on the video side of things), I'm all for ditching the OSD altogether. I find the HTTP setup that Monolith chose to be very clever and intriguing. I also remember Lonnie discussing how the OSD "complicates" things. I took me awhile to find his original posts, but you'll find them HERE and HERE. I've always enjoyed the convenience of an OSD, but times are changing and the technology is becoming more complicated. Knowing that I can control my entire system from the comfort of my chair using the Harmony app on my iPad, I have no problem setting up and/or controlling my processor from there as well. For those who might be interested in seeing Youthman's " HTP-1 Unboxing and Setup" video, you can find that... HERE. You can skip the first 10 minutes to get straight to the HTTP setup. If the OSD is truly causing a lot of these issues (which has been hinted at but I don't really know), then I would have no issues going to just a web based setup. If anything it should be a lot faster than the current menu system. I guess the only downside be if you want to see your current volume level, but your processor is in a different room. No idea how that would work.
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Post by doc1963 on Aug 21, 2020 9:41:28 GMT -5
I know I'm likely in a very small minority, but if it makes for a more stable product (especially on the video side of things), I'm all for ditching the OSD altogether. I find the HTTP setup that Monolith chose to be very clever and intriguing. I also remember Lonnie discussing how the OSD "complicates" things. I took me awhile to find his original posts, but you'll find them HERE and HERE. I've always enjoyed the convenience of an OSD, but times are changing and the technology is becoming more complicated. Knowing that I can control my entire system from the comfort of my chair using the Harmony app on my iPad, I have no problem setting up and/or controlling my processor from there as well. For those who might be interested in seeing Youthman's " HTP-1 Unboxing and Setup" video, you can find that... HERE. You can skip the first 10 minutes to get straight to the HTTP setup. If the OSD is truly causing a lot of these issues (which has been hinted at but I don't really know), then I would have no issues going to just a web based setup. If anything it should be a lot faster than the current menu system. I guess the only downside be if you want to see your current volume level, but your processor is in a different room. No idea how that would work. With the HTP-1, the volume is shown on the first level of the web page. Not quite as convenient as seeing it right there on your screen, but not all that difficult using your smartphone or tablet. I'm probably also in the minority of folks who aren't physically attached to their cellphone, but I'm sure most would have it tucked away in their pocket...
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Aug 21, 2020 10:27:55 GMT -5
We obviously all have very different preferences and tolerances in that department.
I'm "old school".... I'm perfectly happy with my RMC-1 sitting on the counter under my TV... and looking at it when I want to see what it's set to. So I wouldn't be at all happy with a black box that looks like an oversized Roku....
Personally, I also have little interest in the OSD, beyond finding the Volume bar handy sometimes. (I don't need a display to tell me what button I just pushed... )
However I wouldn't even consider a processor that didn't have at least a physical Volume Control and a display on the front panel.
I want to be able to look at the processor and see what the Volume is set to and what it's doing...
And, if I'm already standing in front of it, I resent having to walk across the room to find the remote control.
(And, when I'm at home relaxing, I don't carry either my phone, or a computer, around with me.)
I'm also not at all a fan of any kind of touch screen... I don't like touch screens themselves - it's too easy to hit buttons by mistake (my cat thinks so too)...
Not to mention the fact that every device with a touch screen consumes enough power that it has to live in a charging cradle... My land-line cordless phone lives in a charging cradle... and my cell phone visits one every night...and that's quite enough. I much prefer a plain old remote control, with buttons, that's happy with a new pair of AA or AAA batteries once every few months...
As you say, however, some people seem to find the OSD to be very useful - which is why we haven't done away with it.
I personally find the Monoprice box neither "clever" nor "intriguing"... Removing the controls and displays is simply a practical way to save money...
Things like Volume knobs, and buttons, and displays, add significant cost to the circuitry that's inside the box...
To me they seem to have started out with a very functional remote control... Then, in a move motivated mostly by cost, they've done away with all the expensive displays and controls (which they believe nobody will miss)... I just cannot escape the feeling that, with a little more effort, their entire processor could be replaced by a cool TV App... (Or maybe a program running on your iPad.)
However I would very much like to see a full HTTP remote control interface... (But in addition to the front panel controls and display - not as a replacement.)
I know I'm likely in a very small minority, but if it makes for a more stable product (especially on the video side of things), I'm all for ditching the OSD altogether. I find the HTTP setup that Monolith chose to be very clever and intriguing. I also remember Lonnie discussing how the OSD "complicates" things. I took me awhile to find his original posts, but you'll find them HERE and HERE. I've always enjoyed the convenience of an OSD, but times are changing and the technology is becoming more complicated. Knowing that I can control my entire system from the comfort of my chair using the Harmony app on my iPad, I have no problem setting up and/or controlling my processor from there as well. For those who might be interested in seeing Youthman's " HTP-1 Unboxing and Setup" video, you can find that... HERE. You can skip the first 10 minutes to get straight to the HTTP setup.
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Post by doc1963 on Aug 21, 2020 10:41:20 GMT -5
We obviously all have very different preferences and tolerances in that department. I'm "old school".... I'm perfectly happy with my RMC-1 sitting on the counter under my TV... and looking at it when I want to see what it's set to. So I wouldn't be at all happy with a black box that looks like an oversized Roku....
Personally, I also have little interest in the OSD, beyond finding the Volume bar handy sometimes. (I don't need a display to tell me what button I just pushed... )
However I wouldn't even consider a processor that didn't have at least a physical Volume Control and a display on the front panel.
I want to be able to look at the processor and see what the Volume is set to and what it's doing...
And, if I'm already standing in front of it, I resent having to walk across the room to find the remote control.
(And, when I'm at home relaxing, I don't carry either my phone, or a computer, around with me.) I'm also not at all a fan of any kind of touch screen... I don't like touch screens themselves - it's too easy to hit buttons by mistake (my cat thinks so too)...
Not to mention the fact that every device with a touch screen consumes enough power that it has to live in a charging cradle... My land-line cordless phone lives in a charging cradle... and my cell phone visits one every night...and that's quite enough. I much prefer a plain old remote control, with buttons, that's happy with a new pair of AA or AAA batteries once every few months... As you say, however, some people seem to find the OSD to be very useful - which is why we haven't done away with it.
I personally find the Monoprice box neither "clever" nor "intriguing"... Removing the controls and displays is simply a practical way to save money...
Things like Volume knobs, and buttons, and displays, add significant cost to the circuitry that's inside the box...
To me they seem to have started out with a very functional remote control... Then, in a move motivated mostly by cost, they've done away with all the expensive displays and controls (which they believe nobody will miss)... I just cannot escape the feeling that, with a little more effort, their entire processor could be replaced by a cool TV App... (Or maybe a program running on your iPad.) However I would very much like to see a full HTTP remote control interface... (But in addition to the front panel controls and display - not as a replacement.)
I know I'm likely in a very small minority, but if it makes for a more stable product (especially on the video side of things), I'm all for ditching the OSD altogether. I find the HTTP setup that Monolith chose to be very clever and intriguing. I also remember Lonnie discussing how the OSD "complicates" things. I took me awhile to find his original posts, but you'll find them HERE and HERE. I've always enjoyed the convenience of an OSD, but times are changing and the technology is becoming more complicated. Knowing that I can control my entire system from the comfort of my chair using the Harmony app on my iPad, I have no problem setting up and/or controlling my processor from there as well. For those who might be interested in seeing Youthman's " HTP-1 Unboxing and Setup" video, you can find that... HERE. You can skip the first 10 minutes to get straight to the HTTP setup. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, Keith, but the HTP-1 has both a volume knob and a LED display right on the front panel... EDIT: Oh, and it comes with a remote control too...
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Post by ttocs on Aug 21, 2020 11:04:07 GMT -5
Put me in the Front Panel Display with Controls camp. Plus, a remote with buttons, except the PR-1 doesn't take AA or AAA batteries. OSD is nice, but not needed. If ditching the OSD would improve operational issues, the by all means, 86 it.
I'd love it if an app with access to all Menu items were developed. The current app is something I really only use on Movie Night! when I disable the OSD so I can check things without the guests knowing, but otherwise, it's not useful to me.
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Post by JKCashin on Aug 21, 2020 16:26:13 GMT -5
Doesn't need firmware changes at all... there's already an AIP for interfacing. Just needs the glue. I am working on a project that I could leverage to provide this, but it won't happen for a long time unfortunately. Willing to assist anyone else who is interested. As far as I know they haven’t published the API for the G3P, just the XMC-1 which could be considered a subset. Also AFIK, the API only allows for real time selections (aka Remote Control), not actual settings updates (that we would currently do in the menu), which is what chris was asking for. A web backend for setup would be great, but I doubt trivial. That said, there’s no reason not to try and fully exploit whatever features are there to be exploited. While I’d be more partial to a dedicated iPadOS App, as I think it could present a more intuitive and user friendly UI (read ‘cool’ 😎), I don’t discount the advantage of a browser interface that works for everyone. They have most definitely published the API for the G3 processors... I have been using it for three weeks now. The API allows you to manipulate the menu, as though you were pressing buttons on the remote. So you can write a "glue" layer to provide your own API such that if you say request the setting for gain on left channel, the API can be used to navigate to that setting, read it, and pass it back to the requestor. This means a web-backend would not be needed... you would just use the API. The problem is, right now that API is very very slow. But it does exist. As for implementation, personally, I think it would be very easy, bordering on trivial, but I have been writing this kind of software for years now.
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Post by JKCashin on Aug 21, 2020 16:28:41 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing.. the initial values are TRIVIAL to get.... you simply do a backup, then grab the XML file. Right now I am not sure how to do this without using an interface (physical) but it takes a few seconds to dump teh whole system. Then, you can either offline the changes, and push the xml back, or real-time change them with the API
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Post by JKCashin on Aug 21, 2020 16:32:33 GMT -5
OK I take part of that back, with apologies to AudioHTIT... the API was updated, but only for XMC-1. That said, my idea of using XML would still work, and you shoudl still be able to navigate the menu using the same API... I would expect it to be backward compatible. I have yet to check.
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Post by bitzerjdb on Aug 21, 2020 16:37:16 GMT -5
I would love to see some capability to do a bulk change and upload it. It's also much easier to walk the trees on a device vs. using the RMC-1. To be able to update it over the network would be great...however, doing it via a USB drive would also work.
I wish it had a Web interface, I personally hate using my phone to configure things... It has to do with old age and old eyes :-).
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Post by megash0n on Aug 21, 2020 16:41:56 GMT -5
OK I take part of that back, with apologies to AudioHTIT... the API was updated, but only for XMC-1. That said, my idea of using XML would still work, and you shoudl still be able to navigate the menu using the same API... I would expect it to be backward compatible. I have yet to check. as far as I know, the api works the same across the board. What we need is api access to all the settings. You can read most of the settings as well, but you have to be able to parse all that data returned. This is on my back burner as well. I'm currently doing most everything I need via api as it is. Just not "setting the system up" that way. If we had api access to every single option configurable, this wouldn't be difficult at all to put into a docker container and run on the Raspberry Pi they sent us. Btw, that's my plan. Build this in docker running web code and python. So it can be ran on the Pi. I spent some time working on getting Dirac to work in Docker as well, but I just stopped as the effort really wasn't worth it anymore. It's just a simple program running, but unfortunately systemd doesn't run native inside docker and I'm tired of trying to figure it out.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 21, 2020 17:44:48 GMT -5
As far as I know they haven’t published the API for the G3P, just the XMC-1 which could be considered a subset. Also AFIK, the API only allows for real time selections (aka Remote Control), not actual settings updates (that we would currently do in the menu), which is what chris was asking for. A web backend for setup would be great, but I doubt trivial. That said, there’s no reason not to try and fully exploit whatever features are there to be exploited. While I’d be more partial to a dedicated iPadOS App, as I think it could present a more intuitive and user friendly UI (read ‘cool’ 😎), I don’t discount the advantage of a browser interface that works for everyone. They have most definitely published the API for the G3 processors... I have been using it for three weeks now. ... If that's the case could you provide a link, I obviously missed it. Edit: I now see you missed it too So the API should be mostly backward compatible, but they have already changed a few XMC-1 codes to have different functions in the G3P, we'll just have to wait and see what the 'full boat' looks like. But still, these allow for remote and monitoring, not settings, and from KeithL 's comments it seems that accessing the settings via a web interface may still not be near. So a full web based remote is possible, as is iOS, androidOS, etc, but a path to any kind of offline, web, or remote based settings seems unclear.
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Post by megash0n on Aug 21, 2020 18:01:34 GMT -5
They have most definitely published the API for the G3 processors... I have been using it for three weeks now. ... If that's the case could you provide a link, I obviously missed it. Edit: I now see you missed it too I might be missing something, but the same API that has been around for years is what we are using. They have added a couple things and some things don't work on the G3P. I've been using the API for many months to control everything I need controlled. I've put my python code here on a thread I started a while back. We just need access to all settings if the API doesn't already cover all settings. With that, we could fairly easily come up with a web app that could be used to configure the unit. I personally have stopped working on it because I'm evaluating whether or not I will continue using Emotiva processors.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 21, 2020 18:15:06 GMT -5
I know I'm likely in a very small minority, but if it makes for a more stable product (especially on the video side of things), I'm all for ditching the OSD altogether. I find the HTTP setup that Monolith chose to be very clever and intriguing. I also remember Lonnie discussing how the OSD "complicates" things. I took me awhile to find his original posts, but you'll find them HERE and HERE. I've always enjoyed the convenience of an OSD, but times are changing and the technology is becoming more complicated. Knowing that I can control my entire system from the comfort of my chair using the Harmony app on my iPad, I have no problem setting up and/or controlling my processor from there as well. For those who might be interested in seeing Youthman's " HTP-1 Unboxing and Setup" video, you can find that... HERE. You can skip the first 10 minutes to get straight to the HTTP setup. I like the OSD, but if an app like the XMC-1 App which (almost) mirrors the OSD was available, then I could live without it. There are just too many times I want to know what audio codec is being used and how the processor is handling it -- video too -- (maybe if it always did it perfectly I wouldn't care, but then it might be less of a hobby too 🙂). So an updated XMC-1-Like App, or an HTML equivalent, would take care of the need to see what's going on, without getting up and opening the door, I could certainly live without the OSD. I also think if we get to passing 8K through the processor (which I'm not sure we need), then it's very unlikely we will have an OSD. Though I don't see these two necessarily being related, how would having an OSD prevent a Web based setup backend? Or put another way, how would getting rid of the OSD make the Web backend any easier?
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Post by JKCashin on Aug 21, 2020 18:25:26 GMT -5
So does anyone know the processor (CPU) this thing runs? I was unable to find any specs on it. That will tell us if this thing has the horsepower to run an embedded web server
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Post by JKCashin on Aug 21, 2020 18:26:47 GMT -5
I would love to see some capability to do a bulk change and upload it. It's also much easier to walk the trees on a device vs. using the RMC-1. To be able to update it over the network would be great...however, doing it via a USB drive would also work. I wish it had a Web interface, I personally hate using my phone to configure things... It has to do with old age and old eyes :-). Bulk change would be relatively easy... and there's plenty of XML parsers already out there.... could leverage oe of those
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Post by megash0n on Aug 21, 2020 18:41:04 GMT -5
So does anyone know the processor (CPU) this thing runs? I was unable to find any specs on it. That will tell us if this thing has the horsepower to run an embedded web server wouldn't it make more sense to leverage the Pi sent out ?
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