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Post by replyme on Apr 8, 2021 1:04:10 GMT -5
Hi there everyone that reads this post. I am currently trying to set up my little home theater for Atmos. I have the normal 7.1 setup and I want to add speakers overhead on the ceiling and also overhead fronts and overhead rears. Altogether the top speaker are as follows: two rear heights, two middle heights, two Width heights and two front heights.
In order to accommodate all these extra speakers I had to assign the L&R Subwoofer outs to be 'Enable Middle'.
Doing that left me with only the Center Sub available for subwoofer.
I want to hook up two subwoofers. The strange thing is that because I used the L&R sub as 'Middle Enabled', the Center Sub now doesnt have the LFE option available only Mono or None.
LFE is only available when the L&R Sub is not assigned to be 'Enable Middle'.
What I am now doing is using a y-splitter to run two subs from the Center Sub out. I am not sure if this is how I'm supposed to do it. I know this is quite a bit to ask from this forum but I would appreciate any input or advice.
I am hoping there is someone who is also doing Atmos and having a 9.2.6 setup like mine maybe you can let me know how you got it set up. Thanks everyone and be safe
My Gear: XMC2 Emo Basx A700 seven channel power amp
Integra 9 channel power amp Oppo BDP 203
Airmotiv T2 fronts
Airmotiv C2+ center Airmotiv T Zero surrounds Emo ERDs for the rears and the front heights the rest are in ceiling speakers.
Subwoofers: one Martin Logan Descent and one Monolith M12-S |
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Post by ttocs on Apr 8, 2021 7:47:21 GMT -5
Hi there everyone that reads this post. I am currently trying to set up my little home theater for Atmos. I have the normal 7.1 setup and I want to add speakers overhead on the ceiling and also overhead fronts and overhead rears. Altogether the top speaker are as follows: two rear heights, two middle heights, two Width heights and two front heights.
In order to accommodate all these extra speakers I had to assign the L&R Subwoofer outs to be 'Enable Middle'.
Doing that left me with only the Center Sub available for subwoofer.
I want to hook up two subwoofers. The strange thing is that because I used the L&R sub as 'Middle Enabled', the Center Sub now doesnt have the LFE option available only Mono or None.
LFE is only available when the L&R Sub is not assigned to be 'Enable Middle'.
What I am now doing is using a y-splitter to run two subs from the Center Sub out. I am not sure if this is how I'm supposed to do it. I know this is quite a bit to ask from this forum but I would appreciate any input or advice.
I am hoping there is someone who is also doing Atmos and having a 9.2.6 setup like mine maybe you can let me know how you got it set up. Thanks everyone and be safe The "LFE" setting is for those of us, like me, who want the LFE .1 channel to be separate from the rest of Bass Management. With only the Center Sub Output providing bass for all channels setup as Small, all Bass Management INCLUDING LFE is being sent to the Center Sub Output, this is why the LFE Setting does not show up when using Left/Right Subs for something other than Bass Management. To recap, if using Left/Right Sub Outputs for Bass Management for Small channels, you can use Center Sub Output for "LFE ONLY". The Center Sub will not handle any Bass Management duties for Small channels. If using Left/Right Sub Outputs for Height channel duties then All Bass Management And LFE will go to the Center Sub Output. ========================================================== Using a single output for subwoofers is preferred IMO. I use miniDSP to then separate the signals going to each subwoofer with unique settings to each. |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,348
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Post by Lsc on Apr 8, 2021 14:48:34 GMT -5
Hi there everyone that reads this post. I am currently trying to set up my little home theater for Atmos. I have the normal 7.1 setup and I want to add speakers overhead on the ceiling and also overhead fronts and overhead rears. Altogether the top speaker are as follows: two rear heights, two middle heights, two Width heights and two front heights.
In order to accommodate all these extra speakers I had to assign the L&R Subwoofer outs to be 'Enable Middle'.
Doing that left me with only the Center Sub available for subwoofer.
I want to hook up two subwoofers. The strange thing is that because I used the L&R sub as 'Middle Enabled', the Center Sub now doesnt have the LFE option available only Mono or None.
LFE is only available when the L&R Sub is not assigned to be 'Enable Middle'.
What I am now doing is using a y-splitter to run two subs from the Center Sub out. I am not sure if this is how I'm supposed to do it. I know this is quite a bit to ask from this forum but I would appreciate any input or advice.
I am hoping there is someone who is also doing Atmos and having a 9.2.6 setup like mine maybe you can let me know how you got it set up. Thanks everyone and be safe My Gear: XMC2 Emo Basx A700 seven channel power amp
Integra 9 channel power amp Oppo BDP 203
Airmotiv T2 fronts
Airmotiv C2+ center Airmotiv T Zero surrounds Emo ERDs for the rears and the front heights the rest are in ceiling speakers.
Is your front channels set to Large? I haven’t looked but I’m wondering if the fact you are using the L/R sub for the middle height and your fronts are set to small, the center sub is limited to “mono” or none. If you set your fronts to large, does the center sub give your the LFE option? |
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Post by ttocs on Apr 8, 2021 16:10:38 GMT -5
Hi there everyone that reads this post. I am currently trying to set up my little home theater for Atmos. I have the normal 7.1 setup and I want to add speakers overhead on the ceiling and also overhead fronts and overhead rears. Altogether the top speaker are as follows: two rear heights, two middle heights, two Width heights and two front heights.
In order to accommodate all these extra speakers I had to assign the L&R Subwoofer outs to be 'Enable Middle'.
Doing that left me with only the Center Sub available for subwoofer.
I want to hook up two subwoofers. The strange thing is that because I used the L&R sub as 'Middle Enabled', the Center Sub now doesnt have the LFE option available only Mono or None.
LFE is only available when the L&R Sub is not assigned to be 'Enable Middle'.
What I am now doing is using a y-splitter to run two subs from the Center Sub out. I am not sure if this is how I'm supposed to do it. I know this is quite a bit to ask from this forum but I would appreciate any input or advice.
I am hoping there is someone who is also doing Atmos and having a 9.2.6 setup like mine maybe you can let me know how you got it set up. Thanks everyone and be safe My Gear: XMC2 Emo Basx A700 seven channel power amp
Integra 9 channel power amp Oppo BDP 203
Airmotiv T2 fronts
Airmotiv C2+ center Airmotiv T Zero surrounds Emo ERDs for the rears and the front heights the rest are in ceiling speakers.
Is your front channels set to Large? I haven’t looked but I’m wondering if the fact you are using the L/R sub for the middle height and your fronts are set to small, the center sub is limited to “mono” or none. If you set your fronts to large, does the center sub give your the LFE option? The "LFE" option won't show up unless "something else" is providing the bass for Small channels, whether it's a subwoofer channel or any channel setup as Large. So you're correct that if the Fronts are setup as Large then the LFE option would show, but I suspect they are setup as Small so because the Left/Right Subs setting is used for Heights then the Center Sub will not allow LFE to even show up as an option. |
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Post by replyme on Apr 8, 2021 16:20:49 GMT -5
I decided to just not use the L&R Sub for 'Enabled Middle' and now I have LFE for the Center Sub. Now my question is how do I use two subs? Do I use a Y splitter and hook dual subs to the Center Sub out?
Just to let you all know all my speakers are set to small.
Now for my second request, I want to setup Speaker 2 for music listening which is just the two front speakers but I also want to have Subwoofer enabled. How do I do this so I can listen to music with Subwoofer too?
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Post by ttocs on Apr 8, 2021 17:24:32 GMT -5
I decided to just not use the L&R Sub for 'Enabled Middle' and now I have LFE for the Center Sub. Now my question is how do I use two subs? Do I use a Y splitter and hook dual subs to the Center Sub out? Just to let you all know all my speakers are set to small. Yes you can use a Y cable to split the Center Sub Output signal. So if you will connect two subs to Center Sub Output and set the Center Sub Output for LFE just for the .1 Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel, do you have other subwoofers for Bass Management connected to the Left Sub Output setup as Mono, or Left and Right Sub Outputs setup as Dual Mono? |
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Post by replyme on Apr 8, 2021 18:03:58 GMT -5
I only have two subs both connected to Center Sub LFE. Is there a way to use these same two subs for stereo setup on Speaker 2 setup? Are you saying I must connect the two subs to the L&R Sub out and select mono? Sorry but I'm not very techie with these things. Basically what I want to get is when I'm playing just music I will switch to Speaker 2 and would like to have Subwoofer working also. Should I get a separate sub for music on Speaker 2?
Thanks for your patience and support. I really appreciate all help.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 8, 2021 18:46:22 GMT -5
I only have two subs both connected to Center Sub LFE. 1. Is there a way to use these same two subs for stereo setup on Speaker 2 setup? 2. Are you saying I must connect the two subs to the L&R Sub out and select mono? Basically what I want to get is when I'm playing just music I will switch to Speaker 2 and would like to have Subwoofer working also. 3. Should I get a separate sub for music on Speaker 2? Thanks for your patience and support. I really appreciate all help. First, the simple answers. 1. Yes 2. No 3. Not needed, unless you "want" that. It may help to clarify something here. LFE is the .1 channel for Low Frequency Effects. It does not carry any bass for any channel setup as Small in the processor. So if the goal is to direct bass below the crossover settings for each channel setup as Small, then that needs at least one subwoofer channel setup as Mono. The following applies: Center Sub: Mono Left Sub: Mono Left/Right Subs: Dual Mono All of those settings will provide bass below the crossover setting for all Small channels, and will also provide LFE if LFE is present in the audio. If the Center Sub is setup as LFE then at least one other subwoofer channel needs to be setup as some form of Mono. In this case the following applies: Center Sub: LFE Left Sub: Mono or Left/Right Subs: Dual Mono This makes the Center Sub provide only LFE, and then the Left or Left&Right subs provide the bass for Small channels. So the only way the Menu option LFE will show up is if there is an active subwoofer to carry Bass Management for Small channels. Sorry to be somewhat repetitive here, but it's needed to hopefully avoid confusion because LFE and Bass For Small Speaker Channels are not the same and are not interchangeable. As such, there is no "need" to setup the different Presets for different uses such as Music or Movies. I use one Preset for everything, so can you. Just use the Center Sub set as Mono. This will handle all the bass needs. With all Small channels, those channels will always be using subwoofers, so I don't see any need for a Preset just for music unless you want a different EQ. EQ. Will you be using Dirac? If so, this is where you might want to use Preset 2 for a non-Dirac setup, if that's what you want. Then you would have Preset 1 for Dirac, and Preset 2 for User (no Dirac). This way you can setup the Levels for each independently. |
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Post by replyme on Apr 8, 2021 19:21:13 GMT -5
Thanks ttoc for taking the time to explain it in a way that I can understand. Just one more thing, with the suggestion you gave, does it make sense if I connect one sub to the Center Sub out (LFE) and connect the other sub to the L/Sub (mono)? Or should I just leave
it as it is now two subs Y connected to the Center Sub mono?
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Post by ttocs on Apr 8, 2021 20:19:28 GMT -5
You seem to be concentrating on setting up the Center Sub for LFE only. I would only suggest doing that if you already had either multiple subwoofers for Bass Management or Large speakers very capable of producing bass down to or below 20Hz which could handle Bass Management. Otherwise I would not recommend dedicating one or more subwoofers ONLY for LFE and nothing else. With two subwoofers in a system I would always suggest using both together. Two is better than one. Don't setup one for LFE and the other for Bass Management. Connect both subs to the Center Sub output set for Mono. Are you going to use Dirac for calibration? If so, Dirac will correct the Center Sub output with both subs together. This has a better result than if you had each sub connected to the Left and Right sub outputs and setup as Dual Mono. Take a look at the thread Finding Subwoofer which is my ongoing experiment with subwoofers. Things have drastically changed since it began, but it shows some interesting ideas for how to handle bass. I'm still going where the education takes me. |
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Post by replyme on Apr 8, 2021 20:28:18 GMT -5
Thanks again now I have a better understanding of how it should go. I'm gonna do as you suggested. I'll leave the subs at Center Sub and set it to mono.
Stay safe.
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Post by thezone on Apr 8, 2021 21:09:54 GMT -5
With two subwoofers in a system I would always suggest using both together. Two is better than one. Don't setup one for LFE and the other for Bass Management. Interesting comment given that the XMC-2 and RMC-1 have the ability to run 2 independent subs one for Bass management and one for LFE only. I actually find this preferable and the best result in my set up/room. The Sub handling bass management is positioned at the front of the room with the main speakers and the sub handling LFE only is at the back of the room closer to the rear listening position, I find this adds oomph to effects and explosions, leaving the front sub to handle the more delicate bass management duties. Further to this - and I am only speculating here I am no expert but there are two different tracks of lower frequencies to be considered here, the LFE track and the lower frequencies of bass management after the X-over point. They are completely independently mixed signals, doesn't it makes sense to keep them separate running through separate speakers rather than summing them all together into one speaker? Further isn't that what the function was designed for in the XMC-2 and RMC-1? And isn't this your quote from your own thread on subwoofers? Sept 28, 2020 22:13:58 GMT 9.5 ttocs said: What I was intrigued with was how the bass management portion improved so much after separating it from the dedicated LFE. Also from the link in your thread: hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/the-misunderstood-01-lfe-channel-in-51-digital-surround-sound/LFE in the home With bass management (the ability to strip bass from one channel and send it to another) as a standard part of all our Dolby Digital home equipment, it would have been conceivable for the home delivery to do without the LFE track. But again, for the sake of being able to transcribe a cinema soundtrack directly to DVD or Laserdisc, the LFE channel remains part of the system. Despite the stigma that in the cinema the LFE channel is ‘the subwoofer’ channel, most home subwoofer(s) will be asked to voice bass from both the main channels and the LFE track. Two different sources, two different settings. The LFE channel and the subwoofer are not really synonymous or interchangeable from that point of view. |
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Post by ttocs on Apr 8, 2021 23:02:12 GMT -5
With two subwoofers in a system I would always suggest using both together. Two is better than one. Don't setup one for LFE and the other for Bass Management. Interesting comment given that the XMC-2 and RMC-1 have the ability to run 2 independent subs one for Bass management and one for LFE only. I actually find this preferable and the best result in my set up/room. The Sub handling bass management is positioned at the front of the room with the main speakers and the sub handling LFE only is at the back of the room closer to the rear listening position, I find this adds oomph to effects and explosions, leaving the front sub to handle the more delicate bass management duties. Further to this - and I am only speculating here I am no expert but there are two different tracks of lower frequencies to be considered here, the LFE track and the lower frequencies of bass management after the X-over point. They are completely independently mixed signals, doesn't it makes sense to keep them separate running through separate speakers rather than summing them all together into one speaker? Further isn't that what the function was designed for in the XMC-2 and RMC-1? And isn't this your quote from your own thread on subwoofers? Sept 28, 2020 22:13:58 GMT 9.5 ttocs said: What I was intrigued with was how the bass management portion improved so much after separating it from the dedicated LFE. Also from the link in your thread: hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/the-misunderstood-01-lfe-channel-in-51-digital-surround-sound/LFE in the home With bass management (the ability to strip bass from one channel and send it to another) as a standard part of all our Dolby Digital home equipment, it would have been conceivable for the home delivery to do without the LFE track. But again, for the sake of being able to transcribe a cinema soundtrack directly to DVD or Laserdisc, the LFE channel remains part of the system. Despite the stigma that in the cinema the LFE channel is ‘the subwoofer’ channel, most home subwoofer(s) will be asked to voice bass from both the main channels and the LFE track. Two different sources, two different settings. The LFE channel and the subwoofer are not really synonymous or interchangeable from that point of view. Mr. Gambini, that is lucid, intelligent, well thought out objection. (My Cousin Vinny) You are correct, and that is exactly what I said. However, the OP stated to being not very techy, so rather than cause more confusion and overload, and considering there are only two subs involved, I suggested what I would do under the exact conditions. My system has speakers capable of under 20Hz performance that I was using for BM when I had three subs for LFE duties, so I wasn't using one sub for LFE and one sub for BM. Then, things changed. Now I've got five subs with multiple connections and usage. I still have the Center Sub output dedicated to LFE using two of the front subs and the single rear sub. But, due to a fault I discovered with how the XMC-2 handles all Large Channels by summing the BM bass but doesn't reduce the sum gain for BM being sent to them, I decided to find a workaround that reduces the added bass to a proper amount. I was getting 4.5dB gain of bass for all the channels setup as Small and it was simply too much and I could not adjust it down without affecting the frequencies above the crossover settings. The way I've got things setup now, I can adjust the amount of LFE by itself, and the amount of BM by itself, and everything falls in line just like it should. So now, the Large Fronts, Left Sub Mono, and all frequencies above the crossover settings, all line up really well, and the Center Sub LFE is +10dB just like it should be. With two subs, even different models, it's more probable to get a smoother response than from just a single subwoofer. There are lots of caveats however, lots. Room size and layout has a lot to do with being able to use a single sub well. A second sub will almost always help the first sub, so then the question becomes - are the gains in performance by separating LFE into a single dedicated sub greater than the combination of the two subs together and thus combining LFE and BM? That's something that would need to be checked to find out. edit: Forgot to mention something. The biggest improvement I got when I first switched to using the Center Sub Output for LFE which meant that BM was sent to my Large Fronts was the improved Center Channel sound. It was almost as good as having a dedicated subwoofer for the Center Speaker. For the last few weeks I've been running a sixth sub just for the Center Channel since I am not using the Large Fronts like I was. The sound from the Center channel is fabulous! |
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