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Post by carbonsummit on Jun 15, 2021 15:25:16 GMT -5
The last Emotiva pre/pro I had was the UMC-1. Sold it and went back to an Onkyo PR-SC886 which I still have today. Fast forward many years and a different house and now I have the itch to get back into HT. I currently am running the 5.1 set up in my signature. I don't see me ever going full on Dolby Atmos, I question if I'll even go to a 7.1 set up. Well maybe 7.1 now that I have a little more room. My Onkyo 886 supports Dolby TrueHD but doesn't support ARC, its only HDMI V1.3a. Where I used to watch blurays, now I stream a lot and getting surround sound from my TV to the 886 is the challenge. TOSLINK really is the only option now unless I add a SHARC eARC adapter. For less than $200 I guess my problems would be solved, right? www.thenaudio.com/product/sharc-earc-audio-converter/I have the 886 hooked to a 70" FireTV, but maybe I could just get a 4k FireStick and plug it directly into one of the HDMI inputs of the 886 and then pass the video signal to the TV? Then wouldn't my problems be solved for less than $40? I might try that tonight since I've got a 4k FireStick on the bedroom TV. The XMC-2 doesn't have eARC either, but at least has HDMI 2.0b ARC. The XMC-2 has a much more advanced room correction system than the 886's Audyssey MultEQ XT. I do remember the two channel on the UMC-1 was better than the 886's SQ. I'm sure the XMC-2's SQ would be better yet. But lets not BS each other, I'm here asking for you guys to give me good reasons to jump back in to HT and spend the $3k on something I really probably don't "need".
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 15, 2021 15:49:16 GMT -5
If it were me, knowing that I had absolutely no plans of ever diving into "immersive" audio (Atmos, DTS:X or Auro3D), "I" would highly consider a "certified" factory refurbished XMC-1 at $1,200 and keep the remaining $1,800 in my pocket. The XMC-1 would get you the same HDMI 2.0b board that's found in the newer Gen3 processors, give you far better sound quality than what you've had before (including the UMC-1) and offer you the option of purchasing a full version of Dirac Live ($99 from Emotiva)... albeit an older version. You'll also be covered by a one-year warranty. Another option would be to wait just a few more weeks and see what the new BasX processor has to offer. But in any case, I can't see buying more channels than you'll ever use...
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Post by carbonsummit on Jun 15, 2021 16:45:51 GMT -5
Your advice is probably dead on. I went XMC-2 just because IF I ever decide to grow I can and I worry I'd regret not going a little newer/better and risk having to upgrade again in a few years.
Of course with that logic I should buy the RMC-1, but that is a big chunk of cash!
There is a XMC-2 for sale for $1800 in the Emporium. For $1800, the XMC-2 still has 4.5 years of warranty, and isn't much more than the XMC-1 refurb.
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Post by carbonsummit on Jun 15, 2021 16:50:40 GMT -5
But maybe go with the SHARC eARC adapter and drag my feet until there get to be a few used RMC-1 or RMC-1L's used. Or maybe they they'll get upgraded to HDMI 2.1 in the future.
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 15, 2021 16:58:10 GMT -5
Your advice is probably dead on. I went XMC-2 just because IF I ever decide to grow I can and I worry I'd regret not going a little newer/better and risk having to upgrade again in a few years. Of course with that logic I should buy the RMC-1, but that is a big chunk of cash! There is a XMC-2 for sale for $1800 in the Emporium. For $1800, the XMC-2 still has 4.5 years of warranty, and isn't much more than the XMC-1 refurb. If you can get an XMC-2 for $1800, then I’d buy it no questions asked. Just make sure that the seller is on the level and has the “ownership” transferred to your name through Emotiva. Otherwise, no warranty. If there’s a possibility that you might expand, then making the “right” choice now is the better choice. If I’m being honest, I used to say the same thing about Atmos, but it ended up being the best and most noticeable upgrade I’ve done in a long time...
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 15, 2021 17:08:32 GMT -5
But maybe go with the SHARC eARC adapter and drag my feet until there get to be a few used RMC-1 or RMC-1L's used. Or maybe they they'll get upgraded to HDMI 2.1 in the future. Be careful before investing in that SHARC eARC adaptor... I’ve read many instances where it causes a CEC loop that can cause your TV to freak out. The only solution is to not have a video connection between your display and your AVR/AVP and connect all of your sources directly to your display. Having to do this totally negates having switching capabilities in your processor and, further, you’d lose your OSD. Since not all displays are sensitive to this, check with Thenaudio before you commit to purchasing a SHARC.
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Post by Soup on Jun 15, 2021 20:46:53 GMT -5
or you could go in another direction and buy a used Anthem MRX 1120....... excellent reviews & arc room correction included in price.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2021 9:58:14 GMT -5
I haven't had the opportunity to try one of those... But I'm pretty sure they actually had a warning about it on their website... (They do seem to be assuming that you'll be using the TV as your source - or connecting all of your sources directly to it.)
It's also not just CEC that may have issues.
HDMI itself can have issues with "loops" or "multiple HDMI paths between the same two devices" - which can result in the sort of HDCP conflicts that end with "no picture for you".
But maybe go with the SHARC eARC adapter and drag my feet until there get to be a few used RMC-1 or RMC-1L's used. Or maybe they they'll get upgraded to HDMI 2.1 in the future. Be careful before investing in that SHARC eARC adaptor... I’ve read many instances where it causes a CEC loop that can cause your TV to freak out. The only solution is to not have a video connection between your display and your AVR/AVP and connect all of your sources directly to your display. Having to do this totally negates having switching capabilities in your processor and, further, you’d lose your OSD. Since not all displays are sensitive to this, check with Thenaudio before you commit to purchasing a SHARC.
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 16, 2021 10:27:14 GMT -5
I haven't had the opportunity to try one of those... But I'm pretty sure they actually had a warning about it on their website... (They do seem to be assuming that you'll be using the TV as your source - or connecting all of your sources directly to it.) It's also not just CEC that may have issues.
HDMI itself can have issues with "loops" or "multiple HDMI paths between the same two devices" - which can result in the sort of HDCP conflicts that end with "no picture for you".
Be careful before investing in that SHARC eARC adaptor... I’ve read many instances where it causes a CEC loop that can cause your TV to freak out. The only solution is to not have a video connection between your display and your AVR/AVP and connect all of your sources directly to your display. Having to do this totally negates having switching capabilities in your processor and, further, you’d lose your OSD. Since not all displays are sensitive to this, check with Thenaudio before you commit to purchasing a SHARC. That's correct Keith, they did actually add a section about it on their FAQ page (with a note on the product page to "read the FAQ section before purchasing"). That was in response to having so many issues with the product which, I suppose, wasn't apparent (or discovered) when the product was released. To me it was a noble attempt at a lost cause because, to use it properly (or without "issues"), one would need to connect all of the source devices directly to the display. Considering that most TVs have a shortage of HDMI inputs to begin with (and the eARC enabled one would be lost to the SHARC), most users would also need to add an external HDMI switch. So, for me, I'll just wait for you guys to develop that new HDMI 2.1 board with eARC already enabled...
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 16, 2021 11:39:46 GMT -5
The HDMI 2.1 board should be along shortly now. However I am forced to disagree about the SHARC box being "a lost cause" as an idea. I also don't agree with your characterization of the situation. Most modern smart TVs have four HDMI inputs... The problem there isn't: "Not enough HDMI inputs"... The problem is: "Too many source devices"...
Streaming is becoming a very dominant trend... A LOT of people now do all or at least most of their TV watching via streaming... Virtually all current TVs have a decent selection of streaming apps built in... And, as older TVs die and are replaced, this percentage continues to increase... And we shall hope (and assume) that TV manufacturers will continue to improve the situation and offer ever more and better internal apps...
(You may be surprised at how many folks I talk to who no longer own a Blu-Ray player.)
We now have things like "Roku TVs"... And, so far, if you buy an 8k TV, pretty much the only 8k content you'll find is from internal apps... While I'm sure that we'll see an 8k Roku and an 8k Apple TV sometime soon... I'm not so sure we'll ever see 8k Blu-Ray discs as a commercially viable thing... And, as a result of these trends, I suspect that a lot of people WILL soon have their TV as their only source.
The only REAL reason you need a separate Roku, or an Apple TV, is to cover gaps left by the apps already built into your smart TV. (Your Roku, or your Apple TV, really doesn't do anything that your smart TV shouldn't already be doing on its own.)
And, alternately, even if you stick with cable, or keep an actual 4k disc player... That's only one or two sources... And those both have their own menu systems - which you really can't live without anyway...
The bottom line of all this is that I do believe we're heading in the direction of your TV becoming your only source - or at least your primary source.
And, with the TV as your main source, the only question is going to be: "How do I get high quality audio from my TV to my home theater sound system". I haven't had the opportunity to try one of those... But I'm pretty sure they actually had a warning about it on their website... (They do seem to be assuming that you'll be using the TV as your source - or connecting all of your sources directly to it.) It's also not just CEC that may have issues.
HDMI itself can have issues with "loops" or "multiple HDMI paths between the same two devices" - which can result in the sort of HDCP conflicts that end with "no picture for you".
That's correct Keith, they did actually add a section about it on their FAQ page (with a note on the product page to "read the FAQ section before purchasing"). That was in response to having so many issues with the product which, I suppose, wasn't apparent (or discovered) when the product was released. To me it was a noble attempt at a lost cause because, to use it properly (or without "issues"), one would need to connect all of the source devices directly to the display. Considering that most TVs have a shortage of HDMI inputs to begin with (and the eARC enabled one would be lost to the SHARC), most users would also need to add an external HDMI switch. So, for me, I'll just wait for you guys to develop that new HDMI 2.1 board with eARC already enabled...
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 16, 2021 11:46:05 GMT -5
The HDMI 2.1 board should be along shortly now. … 😮😮😮 After I read that the rest was all … 😮😮😮
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 16, 2021 12:19:45 GMT -5
The HDMI 2.1 board should be along shortly now. However I am forced to disagree about the SHARC box being "a lost cause" as an idea. I also don't agree with your characterization of the situation. Most modern smart TVs have four HDMI inputs... The problem there isn't: "Not enough HDMI inputs"... The problem is: "Too many source devices"...
Streaming is becoming a very dominant trend... A LOT of people now do all or at least most of their TV watching via streaming... Virtually all current TVs have a decent selection of streaming apps built in... And, as older TVs die and are replaced, this percentage continues to increase... And we shall hope (and assume) that TV manufacturers will continue to improve the situation and offer ever more and better internal apps...
(You may be surprised at how many folks I talk to who no longer own a Blu-Ray player.)
We now have things like "Roku TVs"... And, so far, if you buy an 8k TV, pretty much the only 8k content you'll find is from internal apps... While I'm sure that we'll see an 8k Roku and an 8k Apple TV sometime soon... I'm not so sure we'll ever see 8k Blu-Ray discs as a commercially viable thing... And, as a result of these trends, I suspect that a lot of people WILL soon have their TV as their only source.
The only REAL reason you need a separate Roku, or an Apple TV, is to cover gaps left by the apps already built into your smart TV. (Your Roku, or your Apple TV, really doesn't do anything that your smart TV shouldn't already be doing on its own.)
And, alternately, even if you stick with cable, or keep an actual 4k disc player... That's only one or two sources... And those both have their own menu systems - which you really can't live without anyway...
The bottom line of all this is that I do believe we're heading in the direction of your TV becoming your only source - or at least your primary source.
And, with the TV as your main source, the only question is going to be: "How do I get high quality audio from my TV to my home theater sound system". That's correct Keith, they did actually add a section about it on their FAQ page (with a note on the product page to "read the FAQ section before purchasing"). That was in response to having so many issues with the product which, I suppose, wasn't apparent (or discovered) when the product was released. To me it was a noble attempt at a lost cause because, to use it properly (or without "issues"), one would need to connect all of the source devices directly to the display. Considering that most TVs have a shortage of HDMI inputs to begin with (and the eARC enabled one would be lost to the SHARC), most users would also need to add an external HDMI switch. So, for me, I'll just wait for you guys to develop that new HDMI 2.1 board with eARC already enabled... It's okay to disagree... But sadly, eARC is not going to be that simple. When you have the most popular TV manufacturers like LG and Samsung deciding to drop all support for DTS (including eARC passthrough), how do you then suggest connecting your valued Bluray player to your hampered display and passing DTS-HD audio (which is still quite predominant in the physical media world) along to your eARC connected audio processor...? You won't get any argument from me that streaming will be the future, but I'm not quite ready to give up on my physical media. So I'll patiently wait for that new HDMI board...
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 16, 2021 12:35:58 GMT -5
The HDMI 2.1 board should be along shortly now. However I am forced to disagree about the SHARC box being "a lost cause" as an idea. I also don't agree with your characterization of the situation. Most modern smart TVs have four HDMI inputs... The problem there isn't: "Not enough HDMI inputs"... The problem is: "Too many source devices"...
Streaming is becoming a very dominant trend... A LOT of people now do all or at least most of their TV watching via streaming... Virtually all current TVs have a decent selection of streaming apps built in... And, as older TVs die and are replaced, this percentage continues to increase... And we shall hope (and assume) that TV manufacturers will continue to improve the situation and offer ever more and better internal apps...
(You may be surprised at how many folks I talk to who no longer own a Blu-Ray player.)
We now have things like "Roku TVs"... And, so far, if you buy an 8k TV, pretty much the only 8k content you'll find is from internal apps... While I'm sure that we'll see an 8k Roku and an 8k Apple TV sometime soon... I'm not so sure we'll ever see 8k Blu-Ray discs as a commercially viable thing... And, as a result of these trends, I suspect that a lot of people WILL soon have their TV as their only source.
The only REAL reason you need a separate Roku, or an Apple TV, is to cover gaps left by the apps already built into your smart TV. (Your Roku, or your Apple TV, really doesn't do anything that your smart TV shouldn't already be doing on its own.)
And, alternately, even if you stick with cable, or keep an actual 4k disc player... That's only one or two sources... And those both have their own menu systems - which you really can't live without anyway...
The bottom line of all this is that I do believe we're heading in the direction of your TV becoming your only source - or at least your primary source.
And, with the TV as your main source, the only question is going to be: "How do I get high quality audio from my TV to my home theater sound system". It's okay to disagree... But sadly, eARC is not going to be that simple. When you have the most popular TV manufacturers like LG and Samsung deciding to drop all support for DTS (including eARC passthrough), how do you then suggest connecting your valued Bluray player to your hampered display and passing DTS-HD audio (which is still quite predominant in the physical media world) along to your eARC connected audio processor...? You won't get any argument from me that streaming will be the future, but I'm not quite ready to give up on my physical media. So I'll patiently wait for that new HDMI board... There is another problem with just using your TV's internal apps....the TV manufacturers (at least Samsung) doesn't update the apps on a regular basis, if ever. I much prefer a separate box such as Apple TV or Roku that I can upgrade down the road as the processor and software is improved. Looking forward to the new board.
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Post by carbonsummit on Jun 17, 2021 10:15:33 GMT -5
The HDMI 2.1 board should be along shortly now. Keith, I know you can't really give us an exact ETA so I'll ask if I guy didn't wait for the HDMI 2.1 board is that something the customer could upgrade at home or would we have to send our unit back for the upgrade? Second question is what do you think the upgrade cost would be vs just buying a XMC-2 with a factory installed board? I'm fine waiting for the XMC-2 with HDMI 2.1, what I have works for now like the title says I have the itch to play with my HT again. I originally said I'd never need Atmos, now I'm looking at my walls and ceilings... damn this hobby!
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,004
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Post by KeithL on Jun 17, 2021 11:36:47 GMT -5
With the previous HDMI upgrade on the XMC-1 we offered the option of installing the upgrade at the factory or allowing the customer to do so at home. I assume we will offer the same options with this one.
As far as I know so far no decision has been made about how the upgrade will be rolled out to production units once the board is available. We might start shipping all new units going forward with the HDMI 2.1 board - in which case there might be a price increase. It's also possible that we might decide to continue to offer both options (not everyone is interested in 8k or eARC). How we decide that will depend on the relative costs of the new board vs the cost of continuing to produce two different boards and sell two different models of each processor. You will obviously hear more about this closer to release time.
The HDMI 2.1 board should be along shortly now. Keith, I know you can't really give us an exact ETA so I'll ask if I guy didn't wait for the HDMI 2.1 board is that something the customer could upgrade at home or would we have to send our unit back for the upgrade? Second question is what do you think the upgrade cost would be vs just buying a XMC-2 with a factory installed board? I'm fine waiting for the XMC-2 with HDMI 2.1, what I have works for now like the title says I have the itch to play with my HT again. I originally said I'd never need Atmos, now I'm looking at my walls and ceilings... damn this hobby!
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Post by carbonsummit on Jun 17, 2021 12:49:07 GMT -5
@keithl
Thanks for the response. Being able to do it at home saves the turn around time. I'm glad to hear that will probably be the way it happens if I decide not to wait. I'd have to think waiting and buying it with the HDMI 2.1 board installed would be cheaper (even if there is a price increase) than paying for the upgraded board. Just a guess judging by the cost of the HDMI 2.0b board at $424 with shipping.
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Post by carbonsummit on Jun 18, 2021 12:17:36 GMT -5
So after much reading and thought my room will not work for a 7.1 without some drastic changes. The "theater couch" would have to be moved too far forward to really work with the room the way it is and to make it work I'd have to change around the whole basement. I can imagine how to make it work, and if it was a true HT room I could do it but the basement has to serve other purposes too.
I was kind of bummed but reading on one site I found this advice:
"If given a choice, I would take 5.1.2 over 7.1 as I feel it's a more immersive experience with the height effects channels." Ed Mullen - SVS
So if that is my next move now I "need" a Atmos capable pre/pro... LOL. So that rules out the XMC-1. I'll read up on the differences between the XMC-2 and the two RMC models but I have to think a guy who nursed a 14 year old Onkyo 886 this long will probably be happy with the XMC-2 for a long long time.
This addiction is expensive!
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 18, 2021 15:05:23 GMT -5
How we decide that will depend on the relative costs of the new board...etc.. You will obviously hear more about this closer to release time. If any of us can still hear when that time comes....
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Post by carbonsummit on Jun 18, 2021 16:13:55 GMT -5
Maybe an odd question... I've got a Gen 1 XPA-5 and an ERC-1. Is the current XMC-2/RMC-1 illuminated in the same shade of blue?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 18, 2021 18:41:10 GMT -5
Maybe an odd question... I've got a Gen 1 XPA-5 and an ERC-1. Is the current XMC-2/RMC-1 illuminated in the same shade of blue? Not an odd question at all, though there hasn't been much chatter lately, the various shades of blue on different Emotiva products (or even within a single model) has been a hot topic of discussion in the past. I'm relatively color sensitive and haven't been put off by the differences I've seen, the XMC-1 probably has the greatest 'variety'. If you're really sensitive to it you'll probably get the best answer from someone who has the same component mix you're considering. As to the comment about 5.1 2 being preferred over 7.1, I'd probably agree, my first testing with 7.1.2 was enlightening enough for me to permanently mount 7.2.4 and the .4 wasn't as big a difference as the .2. Ed Mullen is also a very knowledgeable (and friendly) guy.
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