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Post by lowellg on Aug 16, 2021 16:50:25 GMT -5
Hello, not sure where to put this question. It's Dirac and XMC-2 question along with new owner.
Something is not right with my subs after I went from Audyssey to Dirac Live. I don't know if I need the advanced bass control or not. They just do not act the same way they did with Audyssey. When they go low with something like the Atmos Amaze demo. you can hear waves at the thunderstorm end vs feel a rumble that shakes the room. The same thing with the Grenade scene in World War Z. I have tried multiple adjustments with the version I have, but nothing. I have 2, XS30s with the Ice Amp upgrade. It's almost like there is port chuffing, but just more deep waves in an area that was just a rumble before. It almost sound like the sub is rattling too. I don't know if maybe it's a sub distance issue? I used the speaker distances from my Denon. My room is 12.5x21x9. Thanks.
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Post by ttocs on Aug 16, 2021 17:11:54 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 16, 2021 17:12:37 GMT -5
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Post by lowellg on Aug 16, 2021 18:58:08 GMT -5
Not at all, the bass is not as loud as it was with the Denon and sounds much worse. I watched 4 different Dirac Live Setup Videos, I find it pretty easy to follow. I set it at -30db and mic gain at 100. I just tried it again after backing out the frequency curtain to 20hz. I am also having the screen just go black while playing XBOX ONE X with most games. The only game it does not do it with is an XBOX 360 game and it does not do it with PS4. |
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Post by lowellg on Aug 16, 2021 19:24:42 GMT -5
Also, I just tried a bunch of SW test tones of YT. 60, 50, 40, 30, 28,25, 22, 20, 18, 17, 15 and 12. Everything sounded like before with the Denon, 12 was very little, but the the others sounded the same. Just for kicks I brought up the Amaze Demo in the XBOX Official Dolby App, it sounds the same as when I run it through Plex on my Nvidia Shield. One other thing. My subs are set up left and right with dual mono in the settings. The left sub is left front corner and the right sub is right rear corner. I don't know if they get the same signal, but there i almost no bass coming from the right during that demo, it almost all comes from the left. |
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Post by goodfellas27 on Aug 16, 2021 23:20:27 GMT -5
I would use a UMIK-2 for the best results
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 9,945
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Post by KeithL on Aug 17, 2021 8:59:41 GMT -5
There are a few things about your post that confuse me...
First of all, just so you know, Dirac Live calibrates each sub separately. This means that, even when they're set to Dual Mono, and being fed the same signal, they will be ADJUSTED individually. (The outputs of two different subs, at different points in the room, may be calibrated very differently, in order to deliver the same flat response at the listening position.)
I am also just a bit confused when you talk about "more bass from one than from the other". In general the low bass produced by subwoofers is at such a low frequency that we humans cannot directionalize it. That's the whole idea... you aren't supposed to be able to hear where the subs are located... and, if you can, then something is wrong. (When things are working properly the higher pitched "detail sounds" sound your brain uses to "localize" where those thuds and thumps are coming from actually comes from your other speakers...)
(So, unless you're actually watching how far the cones move, you shouldn't be able to tell which sub is doing what, or even that they're doing anything at all... the low bass should "just be there".) This makes me wonder whether Audyssey was exaggerating something and perhaps Dirac Live is not...
Normally, all else being equal, a sub located in a corner will produce much more bass than one located NOT in a corner. However, beyond that, so much depends on the room, and your listening (and measurement) position, that you cannot make many more generalizations. (It's quite possible that, when adjusted to produce equal levels at the listening position, each sub may individually be set quite differently, and may sound different when you stand next to it.)
Also, I just tried a bunch of SW test tones of YT. 60, 50, 40, 30, 28,25, 22, 20, 18, 17, 15 and 12. Everything sounded like before with the Denon, 12 was very little, but the the others sounded the same. Just for kicks I brought up the Amaze Demo in the XBOX Official Dolby App, it sounds the same as when I run it through Plex on my Nvidia Shield. One other thing. My subs are set up left and right with dual mono in the settings. The left sub is left front corner and the right sub is right rear corner. I don't know if they get the same signal, but there i almost no bass coming from the right during that demo, it almost all comes from the left. |
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Post by lowellg on Aug 17, 2021 13:08:05 GMT -5
There are a few things about your post that confuse me...
First of all, just so you know, Dirac Live calibrates each sub separately. This means that, even when they're set to Dual Mono, and being fed the same signal, they will be ADJUSTED individually. (The outputs of two different subs, at different points in the room, may be calibrated very differently, in order to deliver the same flat response at the listening position.)
I am also just a bit confused when you talk about "more bass from one than from the other". In general the low bass produced by subwoofers is at such a low frequency that we humans cannot directionalize it. That's the whole idea... you aren't supposed to be able to hear where the subs are located... and, if you can, then something is wrong. (When things are working properly the higher pitched "detail sounds" sound your brain uses to "localize" where those thuds and thumps are coming from actually comes from your other speakers...)
(So, unless you're actually watching how far the cones move, you shouldn't be able to tell which sub is doing what, or even that they're doing anything at all... the low bass should "just be there".) This makes me wonder whether Audyssey was exaggerating something and perhaps Dirac Live is not...
Normally, all else being equal, a sub located in a corner will produce much more bass than one located NOT in a corner. However, beyond that, so much depends on the room, and your listening (and measurement) position, that you cannot make many more generalizations. (It's quite possible that, when adjusted to produce equal levels at the listening position, each sub may individually be set quite differently, and may sound different when you stand next to it.)
Thanks for your reply. I have went into Dirac and adjusted each sub independently. So I realize they are being treated independent. Basically what I am saying is both subs are supposedly being sent the same signal. If so, during that scene in the Amaze demo thunder, each sub should have a similar level of shaking or movement. I can stand in front of the left sub and feel the pressure without even looking at the woofer. I do not get that in the right rear sub. The right rear sub does not move like the front left. Now I do have it about 4' off the back wall vs the front left is about 6" from the corner. However, I also wonder if it is producing anything in that scene. I have figured out it is Dirac. I did run the same scene with no equalization and I received very similar effect from my subs in the room as I did with Audyssey. Both with the Amaze Demo and Hand Grenade Scene from World War Z. I have been on email with a rep from Emotiva and I am going to rerun Dirac and see what happens. However, I still fell like one sub is running LFE effects and one is just acting as an augmentation to my surrounds as a full range speaker. Even though they are connected to the left/right and set to Dual Mono. lowellg Avatar Aug 16, 2021 19:24:42 GMT -5 lowellg said: Also, I just tried a bunch of SW test tones of YT. 60, 50, 40, 30, 28,25, 22, 20, 18, 17, 15 and 12. Everything sounded like before with the Denon, 12 was very little, but the the others sounded the same. Just for kicks I brought up the Amaze Demo in the XBOX Official Dolby App, it sounds the same as when I run it through Plex on my Nvidia Shield. One other thing. My subs are set up left and right with dual mono in the settings. The left sub is left front corner and the right sub is right rear corner. I don't know if they get the same signal, but there i almost no bass coming from the right during that demo, it almost all comes from the left. |
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Post by ttocs on Aug 17, 2021 13:27:20 GMT -5
lowellg can you measure the output of each sub with a SPL meter or REW? Have the subwoofer locations changed? or same as with Denon?
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Post by lowellg on Aug 17, 2021 15:34:00 GMT -5
lowellg can you measure the output of each sub with a SPL meter or REW? Have the subwoofer locations changed? or same as with Denon? I have an SPL Meter, I will check tonight. And yes, they are in the same locations. |
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Post by JKCashin on Aug 17, 2021 21:06:30 GMT -5
I wish I had a sound level meter.... all I can find is a sound lever meter.... yes, lever..... t.co/O2sMLS5iaf?amp=1 |
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Post by lowellg on Oct 4, 2022 12:12:28 GMT -5
LOL, I was searching to see if Dirac Live Bass Control had come out for my XMC-2 yet. The I saw this interesting thread title and clicked on it. Low and behold, it was my post. So I thought I would give an update. Dirac is performing much better now on my XMC-2 than what was going on with my Denon. I was not running the setup correctly and had to get on the phone with someone. It sounds great now.
However, CEDIA just finished so I wonder what is going to happen with Emotiva in the future. No HDMI 2.1 yet, I am considering going from 2 to 4 subs so I will probably be looking for something that calculated 4 independently in the future as well. I love my current sound, but the upgrade bug is biting. :-) Also, just watched a YouTube on Dirac's new Spatial Audio which is not out yet, sounds interesting.
Anyway, just came to update and say Denon bass no longer sounds better than Emotiva.
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Post by john4268 on Nov 14, 2022 15:34:52 GMT -5
I was about to set up a second subwoofer when I ran across your post running across your old post...
Can you say what you did differently to make things work better? It would be good to know in case I make the same mistake!
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