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Post by everytuesday on Sept 14, 2021 13:40:14 GMT -5
Hey RMC owners! I’m ready to pull the trigger on a new pre-pro finally. I’ll be picking up a total of 2 new amps totaling 15 channels all powered by emotiva amps However I’m stuck deciding between the HTP-1 and the RMC. Maybe someone can help me in my dilemma. What i like about the HTP-1 is it’s web interface for setup. Does the RMC have anything close to this? Could I setup the RMC via the iPhone app? 2nd is the HTP-1 also has the Dirac live for base management, I think at an additional cost. I haven’t been able to find any info on whether RMC has this feature right now. I was told I could only do my 2 sub setup with a y splitter to a single sub out under Dirac live. Really those two things are what’s holding me up. Hoping someone who actually owns a unit could provide some insight. Thanks in advanced, Spencer
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 14, 2021 13:44:19 GMT -5
Hey RMC owners! I’m ready to pull the trigger on a new pre-pro finally. I’ll be picking up a total of 2 new amps totaling 15 channels all powered by emotiva amps However I’m stuck deciding between the HTP-1 and the RMC. Maybe someone can help me in my dilemma. What i like about the HTP-1 is it’s web interface for setup. Does the RMC have anything close to this? Could I setup the RMC via the iPhone app? 2nd is the HTP-1 also has the Dirac live for base management, I think at an additional cost. I haven’t been able to find any info on whether RMC has this feature right now. I was told I could only do my 2 sub setup with a y splitter to a single sub out under Dirac live. Really those two things are what’s holding me up. Hoping someone who actually owns a unit could provide some insight. Thanks in advanced, Spencer There is no web or offline setup for the Emo processors, and DLBC is not yet available (nor is there a date), if those are important … Edit: You can plug both subs in directly or use the Y, many Dirac users recommend the Y. The Dirac threadThe RMC/XMC Owner’s thread
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Post by everytuesday on Sept 14, 2021 15:02:31 GMT -5
There is no web or offline setup for the Emo processors, and DLBC is not yet available (nor is there a date), if those are important … Edit: You can plug both subs in directly or use the Y, many Dirac users recommend the Y. The Dirac threadThe RMC/XMC Owner’s thread Thanks for the help. In what type of scenario would someone really notice the implementation of DLBC vs. just using Dirac Live normal setup process? I've never used either so Im just a buyer looking at it with the mentality of this one has this feature but the other one doesn't. When in reality it may be possible I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I had it or not. Does that make sense? Cheers!
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 14, 2021 15:26:17 GMT -5
Thanks for the help. In what type of scenario would someone really notice the implementation of DLBC vs. just using Dirac Live normal setup process? I've never used either so Im just a buyer looking at it with the mentality of this one has this feature but the other one doesn't. When in reality it may be possible I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I had it or not. Does that make sense? Cheers! Since I have an RMC-1 I can’t speak for actually using DLBC, I expect it will make a difference, and the scenario would likely be ‘imperfect bass’ (which most of us have). But I also like my system with ‘just’ Dirac Live, and without anything thing at all (naked!). I have planned to buy it, and wish it were available so I could give a more educated answer, and enjoy the results, but I don’t wring my hands at night wondering how much better my system would sound with DLBC. So, wish I had DLBC, think Dirac will be better with it, don’t mind spending $500 to get the best bass I can (double subs), still sleep at night. Sorry, not much help, maybe calling Emotiva would give you more confidence about its status?
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 14, 2021 15:32:51 GMT -5
The RMC-1, and the current version of Dirac Live that goes with it, both already support up to three subs... each of which is individually calibrated.
Dirac lists one of the purposes of DLBC as "Bass Management on multiple subwoofers" ... I don't know if DLBC would enable any other processors, which don't natively support multiple subs, to do so. However, since the RMC-1 already supports three subs, the best hope there is that it will improve the result you get with the subs we already support. DLBC also offers some visual representation of how your subs interact with your main speakers, each other, and your room (better graphs - including graphs or other "visual representations" of "summed response")... It also promises "smoother bass in the crossover area" - which would presumably even be possible with a single sub.
As we've already mentioned, we are a Dirac partner, and we do plan to support DLBC in the future. Note that, even when we support DLBC, you will still have to purchase DLBC itself from Dirac (as a software upgrade). (There are various "tiers" involved there... with the "top tier" costing around $500 .)
I would suggest you read a few reviews and test reports on DLBC before you decide if having it now is really a priority for you. (You also might want to compare a few test reports on each unit... and check their availability.)
Thanks for the help. In what type of scenario would someone really notice the implementation of DLBC vs. just using Dirac Live normal setup process? I've never used either so Im just a buyer looking at it with the mentality of this one has this feature but the other one doesn't. When in reality it may be possible I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I had it or not. Does that make sense? Cheers!
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 14, 2021 15:48:06 GMT -5
Our RMC-1 is configured via a menu system - which is displayed on both the front panel displays and on-screen display. You can do this using the remote control itself... (You can even do it using the front panel controls.)
The Remote Control apps essentially make your phone into a replica of the remote control itself... So you can do anything using it that you can do with the unit's remote control. However, at least for now, it doesn't have any "wizards" or "fancy walk-you-through-the-setup" interface.
There is in fact a Windows "setup app" that allows you to enter parameters using a spreadsheet-like interface. But it has never been officially released, is a bit out of date, and has some significant bugs...)
The RMC-1 supports up to three subwoofers - each via their own output - and each individually calibrated by the current version of Dirac Live. (There are certain reasons why some folks prefer to use a Y-cable and the center-sub output for two subs...)
Hey RMC owners! I’m ready to pull the trigger on a new pre-pro finally. I’ll be picking up a total of 2 new amps totaling 15 channels all powered by emotiva amps However I’m stuck deciding between the HTP-1 and the RMC. Maybe someone can help me in my dilemma. What i like about the HTP-1 is it’s web interface for setup. Does the RMC have anything close to this? Could I setup the RMC via the iPhone app? 2nd is the HTP-1 also has the Dirac live for base management, I think at an additional cost. I haven’t been able to find any info on whether RMC has this feature right now. I was told I could only do my 2 sub setup with a y splitter to a single sub out under Dirac live. Really those two things are what’s holding me up. Hoping someone who actually owns a unit could provide some insight. Thanks in advanced, Spencer
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Post by Thunderduck on Sept 14, 2021 15:48:39 GMT -5
If I may also add, I had the HTP-1 for a couple of weeks. I returned it because I did not feel I was getting enough, if any, upgrade in sound. Could not see any reason to pay the price for the HTP-1 since I already have the RMC-1. Did not run Dirac while I had it. The lack of an OSD proved not to be a problem. I kinda liked that facet of the unit. One thing I especially did not like was that to me the HTP-1 did not feel as rugged as the RMC. To me it seemed like the RMC was a better built unit. This of course could just be my experience and not even be noticed by someone else. The HTP-1 also has its issues. Not major but there just the same. Main issue right now seems to be that it will turn on by itself. Not everyone is experiencing this though. And last but not least, the RMC-1 is expandable. In fact two expansion boards were just released and at some point an HDMI 2.1 board is supposed to be available I believe. You have a 30 day window to try the HTP-1 and there is no problem if you decide to return it.
If you have not already done so, I suggest you go to the AVS board and see what they have to say there. It is a very well liked unit and very well could be what you are looking for in a processor. I like my RMC with its faults, especially the ability to add features in the future.
Good luck with your decision.
EDIT: AVS Forum web site -https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-official-monoprice-monolith-htp-1-owners-thread.3112176/unread
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 14, 2021 15:59:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the help. In what type of scenario would someone really notice the implementation of DLBC vs. just using Dirac Live normal setup process? I've never used either so Im just a buyer looking at it with the mentality of this one has this feature but the other one doesn't. When in reality it may be possible I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I had it or not. Does that make sense? Cheers! From what I understand Dirac Live adjusts each speaker for best individual performance. IMO that is not what we want for subwoofers. I got a non optimum correction from Dirac Live having two subwoofers connected to individual sub outs on my XMC-2. Some people have better results with a Y connector from center sub out to multiple subs, but that doesn’t in itself match timing. I ended up using the single sub out to a miniDSP 2x4HD and this gave a good result. I use the miniDSP to delay the faster sub so both are time aligned. After gain matching the subs by adjusting the volume on each subs amp, I used REW to EQ the combined frequency response of both subs. This gave a very good result. Then Dirac Live on top of that. I think that if DLBC were available, it would probably do the same thing with less effort. Also, I could argue that the XMC-2 costs less and is comparable to the HTP-1, but others may disagree.
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Post by routlaw on Sept 14, 2021 16:22:37 GMT -5
Well I'm a new comer to the XMC-2/RMC-1 products having just received my RMC-1L late yesterday afternoon. Previously I owned the XMC-1 for a few years and enjoyed it, but these newer pre-pros are a significant upgrade in my opinion, much more so than I would have thought. I have no experience with the Monoprice products but setting up the RMC-1L is quiet intuitive for the most part though it does take a bit to time which should be expected given the complexity of any of these devices. There are numerous complaints regarding switching inputs with the RMC series and while it is not instant by any means neither is it a major issue from what I've experienced so far. To my way of thinking the RMC-1/L would be an excellent match to the Emotiva amps you are considering.
Hope this helps.
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 14, 2021 17:37:34 GMT -5
Wilburthegoose had an RMC, then switched to an HTP-1 and definitely prefers it. He thought the sound was much better and the firmware much less buggy. Reach out to him and get his thoughts.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 14, 2021 20:40:36 GMT -5
Right now the HTP-1, according the Monoprice website shows "Out of Stock" and ETA of 10/30/21. If I'm remembering correctly, this is the third time now it's ETA date has been pushed back. I'm guessing the global chip shortages have set back the production of the HTP-1 just as it has the yet to be seen Anthem AVM-90.
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Post by everytuesday on Sept 14, 2021 22:11:48 GMT -5
Our RMC-1 is configured via a menu system - which is displayed on both the front panel displays and on-screen display. You can do this using the remote control itself... (You can even do it using the front panel controls.)
The Remote Control apps essentially make your phone into a replica of the remote control itself... So you can do anything using it that you can do with the unit's remote control. However, at least for now, it doesn't have any "wizards" or "fancy walk-you-through-the-setup" interface.
Hey KeithL, Wow really appreciate the help, not to mention all the other responses - super helpful community. I have one follow up question if you don't mind. My AV rack is located in a separate room, so I use a harmony remote to control most of it, but I also use my iphone for some apps like for the Denon X4500H AV I currently have. Using the iphone App, am I missing out on a wizard walkthrough of some kind or do I just follow a a step by step manual process to set each setting up? Seems like the only wizard interface setup is done through Dirac Live which is on the computer. Thanks again for the help!
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Sept 14, 2021 22:37:02 GMT -5
I’m a XMC2 owner.
If the price is the same, I’d get the HTP1 today (or 10/31) over the RMC1L When the G3P gets DLBC then my mind may change but a bird in the hand etc.
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Post by JKCashin on Sept 14, 2021 23:14:43 GMT -5
Does the HTP-1 have reference stereo mode? I thought not... but not sure
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Post by cwt on Sept 15, 2021 8:05:00 GMT -5
Does the HTP-1 have reference stereo mode? I thought not... but not sure No it has a pair of unbalanced rca's with both adc and dac conversion ; no proper analogue passthrough like the g3;s
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 15, 2021 8:38:07 GMT -5
We do not currently have any sort of wizard or "walk-through setup". You just go into the menu and set what you want. Note that there isn't all that much that needs to be set up. You have to tell the processor which speakers you do and don't have. If you're doing manual setup you then have to set your distances. And, if you're doing manual setup, you probably want to set speaker levels.
At that point you can do manual EQ adjustments, rename inputs, and that sort of thing... but all that is optional.
(If you're using Dirac Live it does the distance, level, and EQ settings for you.) That's all you really need to configure and the process is the same, whether you use our remote control, or our remote control APP, or the Harmony, or the front panel controls. (Either way you're making settings in the menu.)
The Dirac Live software itself is run in a specific order...
It's not technically that it has a setup wizard but that you have to do certain things in a certain order or you can't do the next thing. For example, you cannot create filters until you've taken measurements, and chosen a Target Curve (which can simply be the default one that's included). (But, once you've run it, you can save your project, and then call back the measurements you saved, and try them with a new target curve.)
If you're doing it from another room you would simply view the menu on-screen on your TV instead of using the front panel (which a lot of people prefer anyway).
Our RMC-1 is configured via a menu system - which is displayed on both the front panel displays and on-screen display. You can do this using the remote control itself... (You can even do it using the front panel controls.) The Remote Control apps essentially make your phone into a replica of the remote control itself... So you can do anything using it that you can do with the unit's remote control. However, at least for now, it doesn't have any "wizards" or "fancy walk-you-through-the-setup" interface.
Hey KeithL, Wow really appreciate the help, not to mention all the other responses - super helpful community. I have one follow up question if you don't mind. My AV rack is located in a separate room, so I use a harmony remote to control most of it, but I also use my iphone for some apps like for the Denon X4500H AV I currently have. Using the iphone App, am I missing out on a wizard walkthrough of some kind or do I just follow a a step by step manual process to set each setting up? Seems like the only wizard interface setup is done through Dirac Live which is on the computer. Thanks again for the help!
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 15, 2021 9:29:35 GMT -5
To be honest, the results individual folks achieve vary widely, and don't always match up with the theory... and you will see some apparent contradictions in the theory... but here's the theory...
1) There is no specific difference between "absolute timing" and "relative timing". Therefore, if you set the delay and timing correct individually on each speaker, then they will be correct relative to each other. So, in theory, if your math is 100% perfect, there is no reason, and no benefit, to "measuring them together". You don't need to measure the interactions because you can simply calculate them. (The reason you sometimes get better results if you measure things together is because both the accuracy of your measurements and your calculating abilities are limited.)
2) (this one cuts both ways)...
There is no such thing as perfect electronic room correction... you simply cannot correct every problem or overcome every limitation with EQ and phase correction.
ALL room correction involves compromises and limitations...
However, if you do it well, you can produce very good results at one or more specific locations, and reasonably good results overall...
Specifically, there is NO setting that will be correct for multiple subs at every listening position... that is simply impossible... it will ALWAYS be a compromise.
(So, adding an extra feature, or an extra capability, may or may not give you a better result.... depending on what the limitation was to begin with.)
3) An external device like a MiniDSP can do certain things that cannot be done in an AVR or pre/pro. For example, since an AVR or pre/pro does Dolby decoding, we are required to do bass management in certain ways, in order to comply with Dolby's licensing requirements. So, in order to comply with the Dolby licensing requirements, we cannot "just let Dirac do whatever it wants with the crossovers". But it does not apply to devices like the MiniDSP - since it doesn't do Dolby decoding and doesn't need license approval from Dolby.
The short answer to your question is that there is no short answer... In a perfect room, with perfect speakers, there would be no need to run room correction at all... and no improvement to be had if you did.
In real rooms, under real conditions, Dirac Live often produces a significant improvement. But the only way to determine where DLBC would be an improvement would be to find situations where the regular version did NOT do very well... Then try DLBC and see if it does a better job... (I would assume that this would be more likely to be the case with multiple subs, extremely dissimilar subs, and unusual rooms or speaker placements... but that is just an educated guess.)
For more information I would refer to various reviews of DLBC ... But do remember that, with this sort of thing, every situation is unique ... So the only way to know for sure whether it will help in your particular situation will be to try it ...
(At most you can collect statistical information on "how many people thought it helped, how many didn't think so, and how many thought it was worth the price".)
Thanks for the help. In what type of scenario would someone really notice the implementation of DLBC vs. just using Dirac Live normal setup process? I've never used either so Im just a buyer looking at it with the mentality of this one has this feature but the other one doesn't. When in reality it may be possible I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I had it or not. Does that make sense? Cheers! From what I understand Dirac Live adjusts each speaker for best individual performance. IMO that is not what we want for subwoofers. I got a non optimum correction from Dirac Live having two subwoofers connected to individual sub outs on my XMC-2. Some people have better results with a Y connector from center sub out to multiple subs, but that doesn’t in itself match timing. I ended up using the single sub out to a miniDSP 2x4HD and this gave a good result. I use the miniDSP to delay the faster sub so both are time aligned. After gain matching the subs by adjusting the volume on each subs amp, I used REW to EQ the combined frequency response of both subs. This gave a very good result. Then Dirac Live on top of that. I think that if DLBC were available, it would probably do the same thing with less effort. Also, I could argue that the XMC-2 costs less and is comparable to the HTP-1, but others may disagree.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Sept 15, 2021 10:24:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the help. In what type of scenario would someone really notice the implementation of DLBC vs. just using Dirac Live normal setup process? I've never used either so Im just a buyer looking at it with the mentality of this one has this feature but the other one doesn't. When in reality it may be possible I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I had it or not. Does that make sense? Cheers! From what I understand Dirac Live adjusts each speaker for best individual performance. IMO that is not what we want for subwoofers. I got a non optimum correction from Dirac Live having two subwoofers connected to individual sub outs on my XMC-2. Some people have better results with a Y connector from center sub out to multiple subs, but that doesn’t in itself match timing. I ended up using the single sub out to a miniDSP 2x4HD and this gave a good result. I use the miniDSP to delay the faster sub so both are time aligned. After gain matching the subs by adjusting the volume on each subs amp, I used REW to EQ the combined frequency response of both subs. This gave a very good result. Then Dirac Live on top of that. I think that if DLBC were available, it would probably do the same thing with less effort. Also, I could argue that the XMC-2 costs less and is comparable to the HTP-1, but others may disagree. The XMC2 is not recommended by ASR so I’m not sure that it’s competitive with the HTP1.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 15, 2021 10:59:26 GMT -5
… My AV rack is located in a separate room, so I use a harmony remote to control most of it, but I also use my iphone for some apps like for the Denon X4500H AV I currently have. Using the iphone App, am I missing out on a wizard walkthrough of some kind or do I just follow a a step by step manual process to set each setting up? Seems like the only wizard interface setup is done through Dirac Live which is on the computer… So Keith has pretty well detailed what needs to be done, and each system is a little different. I also use a Harmony remote, specifically the Elite Home Hub based remote, which can connect via hardwire IR cable to the RMC/XMC, and would work well for a rack in another room. We have a thread here just talking about Harmony remotes with the processors as well. There are two more things that can help your ‘remote’ setup. One is the OSD, which mirrors the setup menu to your display, so you don’t have to stand at the unit, and can comfortably make all of your settings from your favorite chair. Second is the Emotiva Remote App, which mirrors the display to the App and gives you buttons to navigate and make selections — with that you don’t even need the display to be on and can do a setup from anywhere you have WiFi connectivity on your network (the XMC/RMC must be hardwired to your network as well). The Remote App runs on iPhones, iPads, and some Android devices.
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doc1963
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 15, 2021 11:27:21 GMT -5
Hey RMC owners! I’m ready to pull the trigger on a new pre-pro finally. I’ll be picking up a total of 2 new amps totaling 15 channels all powered by emotiva amps However I’m stuck deciding between the HTP-1 and the RMC. Maybe someone can help me in my dilemma. What i like about the HTP-1 is it’s web interface for setup. Does the RMC have anything close to this? Could I setup the RMC via the iPhone app? 2nd is the HTP-1 also has the Dirac live for base management, I think at an additional cost. I haven’t been able to find any info on whether RMC has this feature right now. I was told I could only do my 2 sub setup with a y splitter to a single sub out under Dirac live. Really those two things are what’s holding me up. Hoping someone who actually owns a unit could provide some insight. Thanks in advanced, Spencer In addition to what’s already been said, I’m going to offer the following... Monoprice is a bit complicated. First, they do not manufacture the HTP-1. The HTP-1 was a collaboration between Momentum Data Systems and ATI. MDS handled the digital hardware development and provides all software support. ATI handled the basic platform design, designed the analog stages and does the final assembly. Monoprice provides their name, a storefront and basic frontline "non-technical" customer support. They also provide warranty support. Warranty service is also a bit complicated. Monoprice does not “repair” the product in the event of a failure, nor does ATI. In the event of a product failure during the warranty period, you are given a “depot exchange”. You do not send your processor off to ATI for repair and receive the same processor back. In and of itself, that’s not a “bad” thing because you will be receiving a repaired unit that has been fully tested and re-certified. However, here’s the rub, they must have a re-certified “b-stock” unit available to send you in exchange. If this were to happen today, you might be in for a LONG wait. In the event that you might accidentally “brick” your unit (or more likely, it might brick itself), the recovery process is also quite unique and cumbersome. You might want to thoroughly read up on the HTP-1 “reboot loop” issue before you pull the trigger. The RMC-1L and HTP-1 not withstanding, any of these newer mid-level 16 channel processors that are not manufactured by Sound United (or other big box names) are going to be challenging. All of them have “bugs” that you will need to deal with. The bigger question here should be... “ which bugs can I live with until they’re resolved (and do I trust that they will be)…?” I can guarantee you, as an AV-8805 owner, that none of them are going to be as “f amily friendly” as your current Denon AVR. In fact, I would encourage you to take a look at the AVR-X8500 to use in its “preamp” mode. But then again if you’re looking strictly for Dirac, then you already know you won’t get Dirac from a D&M product. For me, owing both an RMC-1L and an 8805, my perfect world processor would possess the sound quality of the RMC combined with the rock solid reliability of the 8805. We’re not quite there yet, but getting close… A “browser based” setup solution on the RMC would be nice (and has been discussed). But in reality, once I’ve setup and fine-tuned the processor, I rarely go back to the setup menus. However, having an OSD for both volume and input/output signal information is a very nice feature to have under your thumb. The HTP-1 is devoid of any onscreen information. You’ll have to resort to a phone or tablet to gain any system feedback from the HTP-1. That, alone, can quickly become a love/hate relationship which is “by design”. It cannot be added through firmware. It’s a tough choice, but one that should be made based upon full disclosure and clarity. I would highly suggest reading the last 10-15 pages of the dedicated “Owners Thread” for both of these processors before you make a choice (you’ll find a very active user thread for the HTP-1 over on the AVS Forum). Afterwards, digest what you read. Read between the lines and choose wisely. Here, you’re in an Emotiva forum, so our opinions are obviously biased simply because we all are “fans” of what we own. That’s human nature. But in those user threads, the “ truths” ususally come out for all to see and that’s where you’ll find the most useful information upon which you can make an intelligent choice. Good luck to you...
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