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Post by dreams on Dec 9, 2022 14:15:02 GMT -5
Why does increasing the treble level in the system eq on the rmc-1l cause the bass to increase instead of the treble?
I must be misunderstanding something.
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
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Post by geebo on Dec 9, 2022 19:23:46 GMT -5
Why does increasing the treble level in the system eq on the rmc-1l cause the bass to increase instead of the treble? I must be misunderstanding something. I just tried and notices some odd behavior. The first time I tried I adjust the treble downward and the bass went up. I exited and tried again and this time the treble adjustment seemed to have no affect on anything. |
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Post by dreams on Dec 10, 2022 6:29:28 GMT -5
Why does increasing the treble level in the system eq on the rmc-1l cause the bass to increase instead of the treble? I must be misunderstanding something. I just tried and notices some odd behavior. The first time I tried I adjust the treble downward and the bass went up. I exited and tried again and this time the treble adjustment seemed to have no affect on anything. I would love to know why this happens. Maybe this is why my system is overly bright. I hope more RMC owners will try turning the treble all the up and down and see if the bass changes. it’s not subtle,the bass definitely increases. |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 10, 2022 12:40:50 GMT -5
I just tried and notices some odd behavior. The first time I tried I adjust the treble downward and the bass went up. I exited and tried again and this time the treble adjustment seemed to have no affect on anything. I would love to know why this happens. Maybe this is why my system is overly bright. I hope more RMC owners will try turning the treble all the up and down and see if the bass changes. it’s not subtle,the bass definitely increases. I'm trying to duplicate this behavior, but it's working as it should when I increase Treble in Main Zone:: Trims:: Tone:: Treble Level:: +12dB. Is this the Treble setting you are using? The plot below is with User EQ using Reference Stereo and Stereo w/+12dB Treble.  Please tell me what your exact speaker setup is including Large/Small settings, and subwoofer channels used and which sub settings are applied (Mono, Dual Mono, LFE), and which sound mode is being used. |
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,203
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Post by geebo on Dec 10, 2022 13:09:56 GMT -5
I would love to know why this happens. Maybe this is why my system is overly bright. I hope more RMC owners will try turning the treble all the up and down and see if the bass changes. it’s not subtle,the bass definitely increases. I'm trying to duplicate this behavior, but it's working as it should when I increase Treble in Main Zone:: Trims:: Tone:: Treble Level:: +12dB. Is this the Treble setting you are using? The plot below is with User EQ using Reference Stereo and Stereo w/+12dB Treble. View AttachmentPlease tell me what your exact speaker setup is including Large/Small settings, and subwoofer channels used and which sub settings are applied (Mono, Dual Mono, LFE), and which sound mode is being used. I've not been able to duplicate the issue I saw one time yesterday when lowering the treble making the bass go way up. But that was a one time thing I've not been able to duplicate after several tries. It seems to be working as expected now. |
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Post by dreams on Dec 11, 2022 9:35:34 GMT -5
I would love to know why this happens. Maybe this is why my system is overly bright. I hope more RMC owners will try turning the treble all the up and down and see if the bass changes. it’s not subtle,the bass definitely increases. I'm trying to duplicate this behavior, but it's working as it should when I increase Treble in Main Zone:: Trims:: Tone:: Treble Level:: +12dB. Is this the Treble setting you are using? The plot below is with User EQ using Reference Stereo and Stereo w/+12dB Treble. View AttachmentPlease tell me what your exact speaker setup is including Large/Small settings, and subwoofer channels used and which sub settings are applied (Mono, Dual Mono, LFE), and which sound mode is being used. Thank you for trying it. All speakers are set to small,dual mono subs,I’m using direct mode for blu ray concerts and streaming tidal. both the treble and bass settings have the same effect.also,I thought tone control was supposed to be disabled in direct mode (page 13 in the manual) I’m trying to learn all this stuff as I go so there’s good chance I’m wrong about these things. I don’t really understand treble turnover frequency,I left mine at 500hz. |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 11, 2022 9:55:58 GMT -5
I don’t really understand treble turnover frequency,I left mine at 500hz. I don't either, nor do I know where to find "Treble Turnover Frequency". Please enlighten me about this. Please give me the path to find this in the Menu. edit: Never mind, I found the word in the XMC-2 manual. |
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Post by dreams on Dec 11, 2022 10:10:05 GMT -5
I don’t really understand treble turnover frequency,I left mine at 500hz. I don't either, nor do I know where to find "Treble Turnover Frequency". Please enlighten me about this. Please give me the path to find this in the Menu. Setup-speakers-preset 1-equalization-user-system EQ-treble frequency. this is where you also adjust treble level. Turnover is mentioned on the bottom of page 8 of the manual.maybe it works like crossover used for bass. |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 11, 2022 10:12:55 GMT -5
. . . . . treble turnover frequency,I left mine at 500hz. I suspect this is your issue. The Treble "Turnover" (thanks for a word I never paid attention to in the manual) Frequency should be very high. Its default is 10,000Hz. This is the Center point of the frequencies which the Tone Control will raise or lower from. I'm setting up to test. |
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Post by dreams on Dec 11, 2022 10:22:12 GMT -5
. . . . . treble turnover frequency,I left mine at 500hz. I suspect this is your issue. The Treble "Turnover" (thanks for a word I never paid attention to in the manual) Frequency should be very high. Its default is 10,000Hz. This is the Center point of the frequencies which the Tone Control will raise or lower from. I'm setting up to test. Mine has always been at 500hz since the day I bought it. Not sure why. |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 11, 2022 10:34:44 GMT -5
I suspect this is your issue. The Treble "Turnover" (thanks for a word I never paid attention to in the manual) Frequency should be very high. Its default is 10,000Hz. This is the Center point of the frequencies which the Tone Control will raise or lower from. I'm setting up to test. Mine has always been at 500hz since the day I bought it. Not sure why. Did you buy it new or used? Using "Reset Filters" does not change this setting, I just tried it. Factory Reset changes everything, including this setting, back to default. And according to Homer Simpson, DeFault are the greatest two words in the English language. So, if this setting for Treble is set at 500Hz, instead of 10000Hz, then what else is not at its default? I'd suggest a Factory Reset. If it were me, I'd want to be sure only the settings I want changed are what I change them to. (Dangling preposition, yes, I know.) This is what +-12dB Treble 500Hz looks like compared to default. When the Treble @500hz is lowered, it can "seem" like bass is boosted, but in fact the frequencies above 500Hz are much lower in level so when the volume is turned up, it will result in a bass heavy presentation.  |
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Post by dreams on Dec 11, 2022 10:54:30 GMT -5
Mine has always been at 500hz since the day I bought it. Not sure why. Did you buy it new or used? Using "Reset Filters" does not change this setting, I just tried it. Factory Reset changes everything, including this setting, back to default. And according to Homer Simpson, DeFault are the greatest two words in the English language. So, if this setting for Treble is set at 500Hz, instead of 10000Hz, then what else is not at its default? I'd suggest a Factory Reset. If it were me, I'd want to be sure only the settings I want changed are what I change them to. (Dangling preposition, yes, I know.) This is what +-12dB Treble 500Hz looks like compared to default. When the Treble @500hz is lowered, it can "seem" like bass is boosted, but in fact the frequencies above 500Hz are much lower in level so when the volume is turned up, it will result in a bass heavy presentation. View AttachmentYes I bought it new.or as far as I know it was new? A reset will erase all of my speaker size,crossover and distances? |
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Post by ttocs on Dec 11, 2022 11:28:18 GMT -5
A reset will erase all of my speaker size,crossover and distances? Yes. And most importantly, it will assure that any deep settings like PEQ would also be back to Factory Defaults. I can setup my Speaker Size settings in about two minutes. I've done it many, many, times. Speaker Distance is tough though and takes more time, but still only a few minutes just for this part. I've got all my settings in a spread sheet for reference because I'm not a fan of Restore Settings after a firmware update. Consider this please. There are 11 filters for each speaker and subwoofer channel. In my system that's 132 individual settings to look at. This is only one area to inspect if one is unsure about what other settings might be at non-default. |
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Post by dreams on Dec 11, 2022 11:37:00 GMT -5
A reset will erase all of my speaker size,crossover and distances? Yes. And most importantly, it will assure that any deep settings like PEQ would also be back to Factory Defaults. I can setup my Speaker Size settings in about two minutes. I've done it many, many, times. Speaker Distance is tough though and takes more time, but still only a few minutes just for this part. I've got all my settings in a spread sheet for reference because I'm not a fan of Restore Settings after a firmware update. Consider this please. There are 11 filters for each speaker and subwoofer channel. In my system that's 132 individual settings to look at. This is only one area to inspect if one is unsure about what other settings might be at non-default. Thank you for the help,I would not have known 10k was the default. I will do a reset as soon as I can. I hope I’m not opening a new can of worms though |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Dec 12, 2022 10:27:47 GMT -5
I would offer one minor correction.... A normal tone control is a shelving control... So, rather than have "a center of the range it affects" it has "a frequency where it reaches full effect"... When you see a Treble control set to "+8 dB at 10 Khz".... That means that at that setting.... - there will be 8 dB of gain at 10 kHz... - the gain will "level off" at 8 dB and stay at +8dB above 10 khz - (a typical gain slope for "+8 dB at 10 kHz" might be: flat up to 5 kHz, +1 dB at 6 kHz, +3 dB at 8 kHz, and +8 dB at 10 kHz, and level at +8 dB above 10 kHz) - the gain will be flat in the middle range of frequencies and rise gradually between some nominal center range and 10 kHz So, for example, if you set the Treble turnover at 10 kHz, the Treble control will only affect relatively high frequencies Whereas, if you set it to 1.5 kHz, its effect will start in the upper midrange Although they vary widely "typical unspecified tone controls" probably have turnover frequencies of around 500 Hz (Bass) and 1.5 - 2 kHz (Treble) You can find plenty of graphs of various tone controls if you Google it (you'll notice that they vary quite widely)... Mine has always been at 500hz since the day I bought it. Not sure why. Did you buy it new or used? Using "Reset Filters" does not change this setting, I just tried it. Factory Reset changes everything, including this setting, back to default. And according to Homer Simpson, DeFault are the greatest two words in the English language. So, if this setting for Treble is set at 500Hz, instead of 10000Hz, then what else is not at its default? I'd suggest a Factory Reset. If it were me, I'd want to be sure only the settings I want changed are what I change them to. (Dangling preposition, yes, I know.) This is what +-12dB Treble 500Hz looks like compared to default. When the Treble @500hz is lowered, it can "seem" like bass is boosted, but in fact the frequencies above 500Hz are much lower in level so when the volume is turned up, it will result in a bass heavy presentation. View Attachment |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,960
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Post by KeithL on Dec 12, 2022 10:30:29 GMT -5
Our processors have "level normalization"... This means that, under some circumstances, if you boost one range of frequencies, the OVERALL system gain level will be reduced to avoid the possibility of clipping... However this effect may cause changes in level at other times, depending on both EQ and Tone control settings. (NOTE that this normalization is "static"... it only occurs when you are actually changing EQ settings... and never affects the dynamics of the music you play.) Why does increasing the treble level in the system eq on the rmc-1l cause the bass to increase instead of the treble? I must be misunderstanding something. I just tried and notices some odd behavior. The first time I tried I adjust the treble downward and the bass went up. I exited and tried again and this time the treble adjustment seemed to have no affect on anything. |
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