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Post by hesster on Mar 3, 2023 8:57:02 GMT -5
Moved to a new home, and reinstalled all of my HT Emo equipment, surrounds, etc.
I use (2) Furman Powerports, one to power a Sub Amplifier, and another for all of the lights, Leds, Fans, etc.
I have no issue using the XMC1 to trigger my XPR Amps and XPA5, but cannot get these triggers to power on the Furman Powerports (use a 3.5 mm plug from the XMC1 trigger output wired to the 12v/remote terminals on the Powerports). I also have a ET-3 and tried that, but no dice. Tried every wiring configuration possible with the triggers, so it is not a wiring configuration issue - I suspect it is a insufficient 12v/MILLIAMP output issue of the Emo triggers.
It's kinda a PIA to have to manually turn on the Furman's every time.
Anyone have a solution for this - a relay, trigger amplifier, or a something else?
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Post by marcl on Mar 3, 2023 9:04:55 GMT -5
Moved to a new home, and reinstalled all of my HT Emo equipment, surrounds, etc. I use (2) Furman Powerports, one to power a Sub Amplifier, and another for all of the lights, Leds, Fans, etc. I have no issue using the XMC1 to trigger my XPR Amps and XPA5, but c annot get these triggers to power on the Furman Powerports (use a 3.5 mm plug from the XMC1 trigger output wired to the 12v/remote terminals on the Powerports). I also have a ET-3 and tried that, but no dice. Tried every wiring configuration possible with the triggers, so it is not a wiring configuration issue - I suspect it is a insufficient 12v/MILLIAMP output issue of the Emo triggers.
It's kinda a PIA to have to manually turn on the Furman's every time. Anyone have a solution for this - a relay, trigger amplifier, or a something else? For amps that do not have a trigger, I use an outlet strip that has some always-on outlets and some switched. The switched ones are controlled by a device plugged into a specific outlet. So in my case my Atmos top amps are triggered and one of them is plugged into the control outlet which then switches on the amp for my rear surrounds. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006PUDQK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |
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Post by ttocs on Mar 3, 2023 9:29:02 GMT -5
You don't mention the Furman Powerports are new, so if they worked in the previous home then the wiring in the new home needs to be checked for "oddities", like, DC on the line, imbalance, etc.
But if the Furmans are new, then my first question is if the 3.5mm cables came with the equipment for use as trigger cables? 3.5mm cables found in many stores are designed for audio and have resistance built-in. When used for triggering, it may work for some applications and not for others. For the ones that work, the cable can heat up due to the resistance. Most 3.5mm cables will not specify that the cable has extra resistance added (none that I ever found, but I'll allow for the possibility that some may mention it). When Radio Shack was still around I bought a couple cables to use for triggers and was surprised that one worked and one didn't. Nothing was written on the packaging to alert me about the construction of each cable, but the one that wasn't working got hot. So I measured both and found lots of resistance on the non-working one. So in all of Radio Shack there was only one cable that didn't have resistance added, just one. So I began making my own. No problems since.
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,188
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Post by geebo on Mar 3, 2023 9:57:01 GMT -5
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Post by LuisV on Mar 3, 2023 9:57:05 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with your Furman, but when I used a pair of Crown XLS 2052 amps to power a pair of subs, I used the following relay to trigger the amps from my XMC-1. If you feel it will suit your needs, I still have it in it's original box as I no longer need it. PM me and I'll give you a great deal on it:  amzn.to/41zVBrwI attached my wiring diagram.  |
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Post by hesster on Mar 3, 2023 10:09:45 GMT -5
ttocs - that is good input.
No, they are older Powerports, and could never get them to trigger.
But - the wiring was using typical wire with the dual prong 3.5 mm audio (stereo) jacks, and cutting one end off and connecting (2) of the (3) wires for a +/- hard wired connection to the Powerport 12v/Remote input connection. Used a OHM meter to verfiy +/-. But, they were extended also using cheap telephone 2 wire cable. Prob had too much resistance like you outline? I have one fresh extra 3.5 mm cable from my unused ET-3, maybe try cutting off one end and trying that.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230 
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Post by novisnick on Mar 3, 2023 14:11:16 GMT -5
When I saw the title as Trigger Madness I assumed we were talking about a quality trigger! LOL
Geissele make a marvelous one! 😋 
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Post by ttocs on Mar 3, 2023 14:25:04 GMT -5
ttocs - that is good input. No, they are older Powerports, and could never get them to trigger. But - the wiring was using typical wire with the dual prong 3.5 mm audio (stereo) jacks, and cutting one end off and connecting (2) of the (3) wires for a +/- hard wired connection to the Powerport 12v/Remote input connection. Used a OHM meter to verfiy +/-. But, they were extended also using cheap telephone 2 wire cable. Prob had too much resistance like you outline? I have one fresh extra 3.5 mm cable from my unused ET-3, maybe try cutting off one end and trying that. The audio cables I mistakenly was using as trigger cables had the resistors in the connector. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "dual prong", but the "stereo" part is something I'd avoid - the connectors should be Mono. I bought 2 conductor shielded wire from the home store because it's what I use for my XLR cables, so I also used it for some trigger cables using Mono 3.5mm (1/8") male connectors. Have you tried using a known good trigger cable to check the Powerports? |
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Post by hesster on Mar 4, 2023 11:51:15 GMT -5
Dual prong is a 2 wire cable with a 3.5 mm connector at each end. Stereo 3.5 mm plugs have a tip, a middle sleeve, and a ground sleeve at the base of the plug. That was what I was using, and just used (2) of the connections - the tip and the ground sleeve. That would make the mono connection, but the resistance factor may be my issue. So my unused ET-3 dual male 3.5mm mono plug cable is what I will try next, and cut off one of the plugs to use the (2) wires to the Powerport. So if that fails, then I need a alternative solution like a relay, 12v booster, or something as outlined in the input on this thread. The Powerports are plugged directly into their own dedicated 20a outlets, and I don't want to change that. So the solution I am looking for is something that interfaces with the Emo triggers, and will fire the Powerports.
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Post by ttocs on Mar 4, 2023 12:39:43 GMT -5
Stereo 3.5 mm plugs have a tip, a middle sleeve, and a ground sleeve at the base of the plug. That was what I was using, and just used (2) of the connections - the tip and the ground sleeve. That would make the mono connection, but the resistance factor may be my issue. Is the stereo connector you are using cut from a stereo cable? If so, this is a problem. I highly stress using a new, unused, mono connector that you can solder the wires to. You need to connect the wires directly to the lugs of the connector to completely be sure that the connector being used has no other electronic parts in the path. There is a very simple test you can to do make certain there is voltage being carried on the sleeve and that it's the proper voltage to begin with, and that is to check with a meter. You may find that the voltage might be on the part of the sleeve you are using, but it's the wrong voltage. When I connect a 3.5mm stereo cable to the Trigger Output of my processor, I get less than 4VDC on the middle sleeve and less than 3VDC on the ground sleeve. This voltage difference may be caused by the jack's internal contact making better connection with the middle sleeve than with the ground sleeve. Alignment of a mono jack cannot be depended upon when using a stereo plug. When I use a trigger cable, one that is manufactured to be a trigger cable, I get more than 12VDC. A stereo cable by its nature is intended for audio, so using connectors from an audio cable is to be avoided. |
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Post by hesster on Mar 4, 2023 15:56:57 GMT -5
ttocs - another great idea. I have been busy moving in, but will get to trying the mono cable set-up today. Never thought to measure the actual voltage on a 3.5mm pin, mono or stereo, to see what it is. If it is in fact 3-4VDC, no way would it trigger the 'Ports. We will see what happens, and I will post the results. If it works, I will buy a few more mono cables with the 3.5mm jacks to complete the installation.
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Post by hesster on Mar 5, 2023 9:48:45 GMT -5
SO - plugged in the EMO trigger cable to the back of one of my XPR Amps and read 11.8V and .3 ma. Then I plugged in my fabricated cable with the 3.5 mm plug at one end and bare telephone cable wired at the other end, and again measured voltage and amperage. The result? Exactly the same as the EMO trigger cable.
So now more frustration. This says the issue is NOT the EMO triggering or wire configurations.
It is something having to do with the the requirement to trigger the Powerports.
From the Furman Manual:
"Momentary Mode
In Momentary Mode, the PowerPort has “memory” — it only
needs a momentary signal from the remote switch to change its
state from ON to OFF.
When first plugged in (or after power is lost and reapplied
for any reason) the “memory” state is OFF. This means the unit
will be off. It will stay off until sequenced on by a momentary
connection of the REM IN terminal to +12V. The sequence starts
on the rising edge of the signal. The “memorized” state will track
the input, so that the PowerPort will stay in synch with any other
units controlled by the same remote signal."
I need to find the thread somewhere where a guy had the same issue and said something about "reverse 12v logic" was required and he used a relay or something. I don't give up easily......
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Post by ttocs on Mar 5, 2023 10:33:13 GMT -5
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Post by hesster on Mar 8, 2023 10:14:56 GMT -5
I believe I have a solution. In careful reading of the Furman manual and wiring schematic , all that is needed is a switch to tie the 12v and Remote terminals together. So I have on order simple 12v relays and Leds for status. Assuming the Furman needed a “Trigger” input was incorrect, and only needs a switched connection. So the XMC-1 will trigger 2 simple 12v Relays when turned on, and the Relays when energized connect the Furman 12v/Remote terminals together which turns on the Powerports. Solution is so simple, but overlooked chasing a direct trigger method.
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geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,188
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Post by geebo on Mar 8, 2023 10:31:34 GMT -5
I believe I have a solution. In careful reading of the Furman manual and wiring schematic , all that is needed is a switch to tie the 12v and Remote terminals together. So I have on order simple 12v relays and Leds for status. Assuming the Furman needed a “Trigger” input was incorrect, and only needs a switched connection. So the XMC-1 will trigger 2 simple 12v Relays when turned on, and the Relays when energized connect the Furman 12v/Remote terminals together which turns on the Powerports. Solution is so simple, but overlooked chasing a direct trigger method. I had to do the same with a Crown amp I had. The 12v relay worked like a charm. All that was required was shorting two pins in a phoenix connector to switch the amp on. Glad you got it figured out. |
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Post by hesster on Mar 13, 2023 11:55:57 GMT -5
A update, finally got some time to install the relays, as I am busy with moving in. In the end - not so simple, but finally figured out the correct wiring after a couple of failed attempts. The GD Powerports want REVERSE wiring logic. One would think the Relays should be set up to have the HT Equipment trigger their relays, and wire them for Norm Open which would connect the Powerports' +12V and Remote Terminals. Yeah, that works, but turns the Powerports OFF. So, simple, wire the Relays for a Norm Closed condition, and when triggered, DISCONNECTS the +12v and Remote Terminals. I should change this Thread to read "RELAY MADNESS"  . Anyway, added some Switches with LEDS to allow manually turning them on or off, and specifically enabling me to turn the Sub Woofer off as it can be brutal sometimes (again - Wife hates when stuff moves around in the House). And made a nice looking mount to give them for a clean look.    |
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