HiFi edition BassX series amp

[vega]

I think almost anyone can agree that the BassX series amp is pretty dam good with its classic A/B power and sound. Some people swear by the performance of a A/B amplifier over some of the new designs and not everyone needs 300 watts. In fact the BassX with 165 watts is still a power house! Would it make sense for Emotiva to come out with a 2 channel Balanced BassX that uses higher quality parts with a few upgrades, would this sell,would the hoped up balanced version sound any better? If priced around or just under the XPA series I think it could be a winner for those who don’t like the newer technology’s. The BassXtreme! Lol! Fun to think about. I would buy one especially now to go with the new XDA Gen 3 DAC 👍🏻

[leonski]

Unfortunately EMO is highly cost driven.

You can save $$ per amp by NOT using Tier 1 power supply caps. And not even G10 / FR4 circuit boards.

And MOST EMO buyers have no idea how much power they really need.
Your 'stab' at 165 is a fine place and still a lot.......

I have very low sensitivity panels and use 1 Parasound A23 of 125z2 (8 ohms) per speaker, biamped........

If you are curious, check out BIPOLAR OUTPUT devices and compare to MOSFET or the DARLINGTON PAIR
which EMO is fond of.....

Some differences in 'perception' may make it interesting for you.....

EMO Has its own roadmap and we are not privy.......I sort of wish they'd publish.....

[ashrum]

I do agree is a great amp for its price, and there are many who prefer the classic A/B amplifier with massive toroidal transformers. I have a couple of 7 channel amps just like that and yes that do sound great but, at about 100lbs they were not fun to put in place. Nor would you have a fun time moving them later especially if you have take it to ever be serviced or if it needs to be shipped to be serviced. To answer your question you don't see many amps at that price with XLR balanced inputs as there are not too many people buying amps in that price range when most preamp processors with xlr outs start around $3000, you may find a few receivers with xlr for front channels but even they are quite expensive. Basx is most geared toward adding extra channels on a reviver with preouts that have the capability of processing more channel than they are able to power, or taking some load off the receiver powering some of the more demanding channel separately. I would not get hung up on an amplifier having xlr inputs. I have used or listened to many older amplifiers models like bryston, Macintosh and Classe that did not have xlr inputs as they were not standard back when they were made. They still sounded great with unbalanced cables. You could use better unbalance cables if you are having an issue, I like Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 it has good shielding low capacitance and their priced well. Their around $60 for a stereo pair and can be also bought in color coded multi channel sets.

[leonski]

Virtually all EMO amps are A/B. the exception being those few with the 'A' / 'A-B' switch. this is WAY different than massive toroidal which are POWER SUPPLY. You can run an AB amp from everything from (a lot) of batteries to a Switcher. What we know as 'conventional' may also be called
a LINEAR PS. A slight variation would be regulation. this adds complexity. But ensures constant output voltage right UP to the limit of the supply.....'Regular' PS can 'sag' so that at highest demands the output of the PS drops. You'll see a PROPER bench test of higher power amps
use a VARIAC to maintain the Line Voltage to the amp at some agreed value. 118 is common. VERY high power amp, like the one I linked will drag the line down when pushed into low impedance loads. PLEASE read thru the bench test results......
That A/B switch? controls BIAS so what you have is generally known as a 'high bias A/B amp'.......the first few watts...in some cases more than a 'few' are biased 'A' than it gradually 'slides' into A/B. Pass XA 30.5 was exactly like this. The meter on the front showed bias and NEVER moved.
At least until the amp was pressed and than it would deflect downward. For that amp? 30 watts in 'A' than nearly 6db headroom in A/B.....that's 120 watts per side.....

WEIGHT? A real Back Killer if you gotta move it around. And more channels means bigger PS and each amp channel SHOULD have a generous amount of heat sink. Ask friends over to help move it but be prepared with FOOD and BEVERAGES.......Maybe light the grill and have a decent
REAL beer...

Many amps with balanced inputs are NOT really balanced designs. They use a little circuit in front of the amp to turn the balanced back INTO single ended. The BEST signal chain might be true balanced from end to end. Dig deep into your wallet.....Have the Money Gun fully charged.

As it turns out? IF you built an exact copy of something like the Bryston 4b 'cubed? It would not sound the same. You'd have to get a near-duplicate of the Bryson parts....not just values but the real 'thing'......Caps? Transistors? PS? Connectors and Wire? Even going to a cheap circuit
board would hurt. Even IF you could get an exact print of the Bryston boards.....
Best of Luck with your project!

One MINOR exception. The MODERN versions of the Dynaco Stereo 70 TUBE amp seem to be better in many ways. Better transformers, perhaps. And the driver board has been re-thought and improved. But you still need 4X EL34 or whatever. Some functional changes for the better are
also on the table and include a solid state rectifier.....And you'll need a time delay relay....easy. New chassis is roomier and is made of a stainless alloy. Some of those odd connectors (like 8 pin round) which formerly connected to the preamp are now gone.....NO MORE Carbon resistors, either.



Formerly, it was PRO gear that had such connections, but that has spread. Done properly I would NOT worry about single ended.


YEARS ago? I attended a show in someone's HOUSE. A pair of 7000$ speakers were to be auditioned by the group AND they used a pair of Constellation Monos......Some ridiculous sum EACH....and I mean 5 digits per amp. But ONE failed to light! And for that money I'd be pissed.
A volunteer from the crowd who lived a few miles away went home and brought back a pair of EMO monos. From the lower end of the line....NOT XPA / XPR -1 anything. At A cost of less than what the power cords for the broken amp cost? SOUNDED TERRIFIC. And got lots of fine
reviews from the group.

[KeithL]

That's a pretty good summary...

The one thing I would add is that, until modern switching regulators came along, you would almost never see a power amp with a regulated power supply.
Linear regulated power supplies are extremely inefficient... (you are literally running your load off of an amplifier that is amplifying a DC reference voltage).
It's quite practical to run something like a preamp, which uses relatively little power, from a linear regulated supply...
However, to do so for a power amp, which needs lots of power, you would add a lot of weight, and a LOT of cost, to the design...
And, to be quite honest, having a regulated supply isn't critical for the output stage of a power amp.
So, for power amps, while the earlier stages may be regulated, the power for the output stage usually is not.
All of our XPA Gen1 and Gen2 amps did just fine with an unregulated supply on their output stage...
Until our XPA Gen3 came along, only a very few really big, really heavy, and really expensive amps used regulated power supplies for their output stage.
However, with switch mode power supplies, like we use in the new XPA Gen3 amps, regulation is inherent in the design, and comes at no extra cost...
(Even so you still rarely see regulated power supplies in power amps other than in Class-D models...)

Oct 8, 2023 15:32:52 GMT -5 leonski said:

Virtually all EMO amps are A/B. the exception being those few with the 'A' / 'A-B' switch. this is WAY different than massive toroidal which are POWER SUPPLY. You can run an AB amp from everything from (a lot) of batteries to a Switcher. What we know as 'conventional' may also be called
a LINEAR PS. A slight variation would be regulation. this adds complexity. But ensures constant output voltage right UP to the limit of the supply.....'Regular' PS can 'sag' so that at highest demands the output of the PS drops. You'll see a PROPER bench test of higher power amps
use a VARIAC to maintain the Line Voltage to the amp at some agreed value. 118 is common. VERY high power amp, like the one I linked will drag the line down when pushed into low impedance loads. PLEASE read thru the bench test results......
That A/B switch? controls BIAS so what you have is generally known as a 'high bias A/B amp'.......the first few watts...in some cases more than a 'few' are biased 'A' than it gradually 'slides' into A/B. Pass XA 30.5 was exactly like this. The meter on the front showed bias and NEVER moved.
At least until the amp was pressed and than it would deflect downward. For that amp? 30 watts in 'A' than nearly 6db headroom in A/B.....that's 120 watts per side.....

WEIGHT? A real Back Killer if you gotta move it around. And more channels means bigger PS and each amp channel SHOULD have a generous amount of heat sink. Ask friends over to help move it but be prepared with FOOD and BEVERAGES.......Maybe light the grill and have a decent
REAL beer...

Many amps with balanced inputs are NOT really balanced designs. They use a little circuit in front of the amp to turn the balanced back INTO single ended. The BEST signal chain might be true balanced from end to end. Dig deep into your wallet.....Have the Money Gun fully charged.

As it turns out? IF you built an exact copy of something like the Bryston 4b 'cubed? It would not sound the same. You'd have to get a near-duplicate of the Bryson parts....not just values but the real 'thing'......Caps? Transistors? PS? Connectors and Wire? Even going to a cheap circuit
board would hurt. Even IF you could get an exact print of the Bryston boards.....
Best of Luck with your project!

One MINOR exception. The MODERN versions of the Dynaco Stereo 70 TUBE amp seem to be better in many ways. Better transformers, perhaps. And the driver board has been re-thought and improved. But you still need 4X EL34 or whatever. Some functional changes for the better are
also on the table and include a solid state rectifier.....And you'll need a time delay relay....easy. New chassis is roomier and is made of a stainless alloy. Some of those odd connectors (like 8 pin round) which formerly connected to the preamp are now gone.....NO MORE Carbon resistors, either.



Formerly, it was PRO gear that had such connections, but that has spread. Done properly I would NOT worry about single ended.


YEARS ago? I attended a show in someone's HOUSE. A pair of 7000$ speakers were to be auditioned by the group AND they used a pair of Constellation Monos......Some ridiculous sum EACH....and I mean 5 digits per amp. But ONE failed to light! And for that money I'd be pissed.
A volunteer from the crowd who lived a few miles away went home and brought back a pair of EMO monos. From the lower end of the line....NOT XPA / XPR -1 anything. At A cost of less than what the power cords for the broken amp cost? SOUNDED TERRIFIC. And got lots of fine
reviews from the group.

[leonski]

I'm PERSONALLY surprised at the new SMPS. They seem to have learned a lot in the last decade or so about design and most importantly RELIABILITY.....
IMO? EMO took advantage of these advances and 'rode the wave'. The big amps they made were killing them with shipping and damaged returns.....
I don't have the specs, but it must have been bad.....
It's tough to ship a large mono amp with 30 or so lb of JUST toroid......And expect someone to without shipping experience to get it back to you in ONE piece....

SMPS saved 'em who knows how much $$$ in shipping and all THOSE hassles......

I'd also add that if it's not broke, don't fix it.    Conventional / Linear PS is 90% or better 'fine'.....Until the very fringes of capability......
The ONLY time I ever wished for a change?    That Pesky Carver Cube would dim the lights to the house....and it was 'only' 200x2 and nowhere
near doubled into 4 ohms......For a high powered, but not WACKY amp?    It had a 15 amp input fuse!     That would probably have been much
 better if I had a dedicated 20 amp line TO the amp......

Unless you are pushing it....and I mean 'nose bleed' levels?   The sag of a conventional PS may help save your speakers.     I WOULD however,
recommend a dedicated line to such gear and to have some means to monitor power line voltage TO the amp......
I've done this:.....FAILED to turn it down at the first sign of Audio Distress.    I was stupid and it cost me a pair of midrange.....Which upon inspection
were not better than clock radio speakers......I HATED those speakers after living with 'em for a while.....

[Boomzilla]

Back in the day, I’d modify my own gear for improved performance, but no more. Why? The main reason is surface-mount components. They’re significantly smaller and far easier to damage when installing. So, for better or worse, I now consider audio components as modular units - run them until they break and then replace them.

I’m also trying to resist buying a gorgeous pair of vintage Klipsch La Scalas from my audio amigo, Annette. I love those speakers, but don’t know if I’ll have room for them after we move…

[leonski]

Surface Mount is a 'thing apart' for most of us. And requries some specialty tools. I can do normal board work to the component level, but tend to stay away from surface mount.
Sometimes it is possible to REFLOW solder connections if a cold solder is suspected.....
But stuff that I would do for an original build is not done by mass manufacturers. I'd think about OPAMP sockets.....for 'rolling'.......or even socketed relays.
My Carver Cube was an electronic Puzzle Box and I stopped disassembly after failing to see the path forward......


Me? I want to go up to the KLIPSCH Heritage Store up in Los Angles and just LISTEN to the FORTE IV......But would require a COMPLETE rethink of my system.
With an eye towards more appropriate amplification while selling my Maggies and PAIR of Parasound A23.......
The VTA ST120 of 60x2 is THE obvious choice for amp.....at least for me. <2000$ for the kit complete with 6550 tubes. I'd ADD a solid state recitifier and time delay relay.
UPGRADES to tube sockets, some connectors and capacitors would be easy to do as an original build......
Give me 10 days on the 'bench' (Dining Room Table!) for assembly. Board stuffing is easy. Mechanical assembly, likewise. Just have to be CAREFUL with the point-to-point.....


My OPINION? PLAN for a single, good 'media room' with space for an end-game speaker. Think about goals......Buying the 'right house', includes a good place for a stereo.
Additional considerations include stuff like Electrical sytstem in house. And neighbors and ANY airports or mass transport within earshot.
My house has only a 100 amp service. And I once lived near a large pumping station which when the pump turned ON.....dimmed the lights in the house and when it turned OFF,
brightened the lights to an alarming degree.....That couldn't have been good for ANYTHING.....from the refrigerator to the clock radio......
Plan might include a room addition? Or interior modifications......or even a new kitchen!

Storage IS an option while you find a new place and get settled......Once the repaint is done and certain upgrades in progress.....

[vcautokid]

While I think BAS-X with some of the more features vega is sharing is interesting and curious. You know possibilities. The BAS-X theme is about honest audio, and controlled costs and lower prices for all. Some may not want an XPA and so on. The BAS-X happily fills that need. I know for instance, the A2 x 2 are doing a fine job on my Bedroom Home Theater. Not costing a mint either, like everything else does. I am happy the way BAS-X is thank you.

[leonski]

I just took a look at the Klipsch Heritage site.
The 70th Anniversary La Scala II is in a unique finish......BEAUTIFUL.

And the latest mods / drivers.

The incredible rated 105db sensitivity tells me that ANY tube amp of 10 to 15 watts will get you evicted from the STATE.....

Made from Australian Walnut AKA Queensland Walnut.....they are a thing of beauty

My problem? WOW.....You must REALLY load the money gun and pony up nearly 14Large.....$ that is.....

I've had kind of a change of heart recently. My new motto? Screw It. Can't take it with me and no thought of 'fairness' in the distributiton of
my poor-ass assets (get it?) will satisfy everyone or perhaps anyone.
So I'm thinking of trying to DIE BROKE. After FIRST planting a bunch of BAMBOO on my property to give the neighbors something to hate me for
for the next 3 decades......

www.soundhifi.com/klipsch/sam.htm

[KeithL]

Some things are just not intended to be taken apart... and the Carver Cube was definitely one of them. 

And here are a few considerations if you want to alter the design of a tube amp...

1.
The idea of "cathode stripping" has never actually been settled.
(It's certainly theoretically a potential problem but it is still disputed whether anyone has actually seen it happen.)
(But adding a time delay couldn't hurt and absolutely would be "best practice design".)
1a.
However a simpler and cheaper solution is to use a two position switch... first click is "warmup"... then second click is "run"...
(It gives you something to do while you're waiting for the cathodes to warm up.)
(And if you really want to be cute you can have an LED light after sixty seconds.)
2.
I agree with changing to a solid state rectifier... but not everyone does...
2a.
Simply switching from a tube rectifier to a solid state one will increase the plate supply voltage.
This can be a problem if your new voltage goes above the ratings of the filter capacitors or the tubes.
(Many older tube amps run pretty close to the limits on the capacitors so this is a real concern.)
(And many modern tube amps run the output tubes pretty close to their maximum to get more power.)
(AND remember that the supply will jump up at startup if it wakes up before the output tubes are drawing current.)
2b.
Unless you add resistors the impedance of the supply will then be lower as well.
This can and probably will alter the sound (I would assume for the better... but not everyone may agree).
2c.
Also, unless you add resistance, this will allow a bigger startup surge when initially charging the power supply capacitors.
This can actually be a problem, especially with some older capacitors, because the surge can "stress" them over time.
2d.
If cathode stripping is a thing, or if you think it is, this makes that warm-up delay A LOT MORE CRITICAL.
(The warm-up time for a rectifier tube provides a built-in turn-on delay... and you are eliminating that.)
2e.
You COULD also redesign the power supply... for example by adding an input choke... which will negate most of these changes.
BUT that's a big change, and chokes are expensive, and take up a lot of chassis space.

It's not always as simple as you may think to successfully alter designs...

Oct 11, 2023 13:36:45 GMT -5 leonski said:

Surface Mount is a 'thing apart' for most of us. And requries some specialty tools. I can do normal board work to the component level, but tend to stay away from surface mount.
Sometimes it is possible to REFLOW solder connections if a cold solder is suspected.....
But stuff that I would do for an original build is not done by mass manufacturers. I'd think about OPAMP sockets.....for 'rolling'.......or even socketed relays.
My Carver Cube was an electronic Puzzle Box and I stopped disassembly after failing to see the path forward......


Me? I want to go up to the KLIPSCH Heritage Store up in Los Angles and just LISTEN to the FORTE IV......But would require a COMPLETE rethink of my system.
With an eye towards more appropriate amplification while selling my Maggies and PAIR of Parasound A23.......
The VTA ST120 of 60x2 is THE obvious choice for amp.....at least for me. <2000$ for the kit complete with 6550 tubes. I'd ADD a solid state recitifier and time delay relay.
UPGRADES to tube sockets, some connectors and capacitors would be easy to do as an original build......
Give me 10 days on the 'bench' (Dining Room Table!) for assembly. Board stuffing is easy. Mechanical assembly, likewise. Just have to be CAREFUL with the point-to-point.....


My OPINION? PLAN for a single, good 'media room' with space for an end-game speaker. Think about goals......Buying the 'right house', includes a good place for a stereo.
Additional considerations include stuff like Electrical sytstem in house. And neighbors and ANY airports or mass transport within earshot.
My house has only a 100 amp service. And I once lived near a large pumping station which when the pump turned ON.....dimmed the lights in the house and when it turned OFF,
brightened the lights to an alarming degree.....That couldn't have been good for ANYTHING.....from the refrigerator to the clock radio......
Plan might include a room addition? Or interior modifications......or even a new kitchen!

Storage IS an option while you find a new place and get settled......Once the repaint is done and certain upgrades in progress.....

[KeithL]

The new SMPS has actually turned out to be AT LEAST as reliable as the old linear supply... even not counting shipping damage.
(And some of us older folks... including some of our customers... like the fact that you can actually lift them without killing yourself.)

It's also cool that the new SMPS is also fully regulated.
(That counts as a super-premium feature in terms of design... whether you can actually hear a significant difference or not.)

However I would have to disagree with you on that last point...
Even though a conventional supply... especially if it hasn't got much filtering... will sag under heavy loads...
In terms or percentage of power it's not going to sag enough to save your speakers from a serious blasting...
(And, when it does sag, it may actually start distorting sooner, so at best your midranges will die first instead of your woofers.)
A power supply would have to be really weak to actually make your speakers any safer.

Oct 10, 2023 18:55:13 GMT -5 leonski said:

I'm PERSONALLY surprised at the new SMPS. They seem to have learned a lot in the last decade or so about design and most importantly RELIABILITY.....
IMO? EMO took advantage of these advances and 'rode the wave'. The big amps they made were killing them with shipping and damaged returns.....
I don't have the specs, but it must have been bad.....
It's tough to ship a large mono amp with 30 or so lb of JUST toroid......And expect someone to without shipping experience to get it back to you in ONE piece....

SMPS saved 'em who knows how much $$$ in shipping and all THOSE hassles......

I'd also add that if it's not broke, don't fix it.    Conventional / Linear PS is 90% or better 'fine'.....Until the very fringes of capability......
The ONLY time I ever wished for a change?    That Pesky Carver Cube would dim the lights to the house....and it was 'only' 200x2 and nowhere
near doubled into 4 ohms......For a high powered, but not WACKY amp?    It had a 15 amp input fuse!     That would probably have been much
 better if I had a dedicated 20 amp line TO the amp......

Unless you are pushing it....and I mean 'nose bleed' levels?   The sag of a conventional PS may help save your speakers.     I WOULD however,
recommend a dedicated line to such gear and to have some means to monitor power line voltage TO the amp......
I've done this:.....FAILED to turn it down at the first sign of Audio Distress.    I was stupid and it cost me a pair of midrange.....Which upon inspection
were not better than clock radio speakers......I HATED those speakers after living with 'em for a while.....

[leonski]

I get where you're coming from about PS 'strength'......

But keep in mind, too, that people tend to ignore 'distortion' until too late. Even in Magnepan-Land....the ribbon is generally considered the Fuse Saver!

Part of the problem is IMO, System Matching. Running 105db sensitive Klipsh La Scala with a 500 watt mono is INSANE waste.
But likewise, my 84db or whatever sensitive panels with a ST70 Dynaco is JUST as nuts, except maybe in a VERY tiny space and aggressive neighbors
on all sides!
In any case? The PS WILL apparently take the brunt of it. And NO amount additional capacitance short of Obscene will help....than the turnon surge will
take 30 seconds to charge it up......

You know, I've seen but never tried some of the PSAudio Power Plant stuff.......And would LOVE to experiment with a variac. That might be interesting.

As for tube amps? Really neat.....the new VTS ST120 has some higher voltage secondaries.....415? 460? I don't 'member.. But the SS rectifier?
That is a no brainer for me. You can buy a double recitifier tube modification FOR that amp.....which tells me problems at the limits. And it also comes
with more standard capacitance (at that higher voltage!= ENERGY).
The idea is to let all the heaters come up Before the HV is applied. I think that's a good idea......I think when Bob Latino was with 'em.....he knew that
40 years ago, line voltage may have actually been 'One Ten'......but today? I turn stuff off if my Kill-A-Watt goes to 115 or so......Typical? 117 to 119.....
Summer sag is dangerous!

Wanna see some PS measurements? go to AUDIOGRAPH and check it out. Some PS just go to hell if confronted with anything but a mainly resistive load.
As for SAG? I have only to look at the measured performance of the modern Home Theater Receiver. BEST reason yet to spend some $$$ on good amps
and let the pre-pro do the switching.......Thank goodness MOST home theater speakers are 'benign'.....

www.audiograph.se

Look at the bottom of the page for the telling graphic......

[leonski]

Oct 12, 2023 9:03:44 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Some things are just not intended to be taken apart... and the Carver Cube was definitely one of them. 

And here are a few considerations if you want to alter the design of a tube amp...

1.
The idea of "cathode stripping" has never actually been settled.
(It's certainly theoretically a potential problem but it is still disputed whether anyone has actually seen it happen.)
(But adding a time delay couldn't hurt and absolutely would be "best practice design".)
1a.
However a simpler and cheaper solution is to use a two position switch... first click is "warmup"... then second click is "run"...
(It gives you something to do while you're waiting for the cathodes to warm up.)
(And if you really want to be cute you can have an LED light after sixty seconds.)
2.
I agree with changing to a solid state rectifier... but not everyone does...
2a.
Simply switching from a tube rectifier to a solid state one will increase the plate supply voltage.
This can be a problem if your new voltage goes above the ratings of the filter capacitors or the tubes.
(Many older tube amps run pretty close to the limits on the capacitors so this is a real concern.)
(And many modern tube amps run the output tubes pretty close to their maximum to get more power.)
(AND remember that the supply will jump up at startup if it wakes up before the output tubes are drawing current.)
2b.
Unless you add resistors the impedance of the supply will then be lower as well.
This can and probably will alter the sound (I would assume for the better... but not everyone may agree).
2c.
Also, unless you add resistance, this will allow a bigger startup surge when initially charging the power supply capacitors.
This can actually be a problem, especially with some older capacitors, because the surge can "stress" them over time.
2d.
If cathode stripping is a thing, or if you think it is, this makes that warm-up delay A LOT MORE CRITICAL.
(The warm-up time for a rectifier tube provides a built-in turn-on delay... and you are eliminating that.)
2e.
You COULD also redesign the power supply... for example by adding an input choke... which will negate most of these changes.
BUT that's a big change, and chokes are expensive, and take up a lot of chassis space.

It's not always as simple as you may think to successfully alter designs...

Oct 11, 2023 13:36:45 GMT -5 leonski said:

Surface Mount is a 'thing apart' for most of us. And requries some specialty tools. I can do normal board work to the component level, but tend to stay away from surface mount.
Sometimes it is possible to REFLOW solder connections if a cold solder is suspected.....
But stuff that I would do for an original build is not done by mass manufacturers. I'd think about OPAMP sockets.....for 'rolling'.......or even socketed relays.
My Carver Cube was an electronic Puzzle Box and I stopped disassembly after failing to see the path forward......


Me? I want to go up to the KLIPSCH Heritage Store up in Los Angles and just LISTEN to the FORTE IV......But would require a COMPLETE rethink of my system.
With an eye towards more appropriate amplification while selling my Maggies and PAIR of Parasound A23.......
The VTA ST120 of 60x2 is THE obvious choice for amp.....at least for me. <2000$ for the kit complete with 6550 tubes. I'd ADD a solid state recitifier and time delay relay.
UPGRADES to tube sockets, some connectors and capacitors would be easy to do as an original build......
Give me 10 days on the 'bench' (Dining Room Table!) for assembly. Board stuffing is easy. Mechanical assembly, likewise. Just have to be CAREFUL with the point-to-point.....


My OPINION? PLAN for a single, good 'media room' with space for an end-game speaker. Think about goals......Buying the 'right house', includes a good place for a stereo.
Additional considerations include stuff like Electrical sytstem in house. And neighbors and ANY airports or mass transport within earshot.
My house has only a 100 amp service. And I once lived near a large pumping station which when the pump turned ON.....dimmed the lights in the house and when it turned OFF,
brightened the lights to an alarming degree.....That couldn't have been good for ANYTHING.....from the refrigerator to the clock radio......
Plan might include a room addition? Or interior modifications......or even a new kitchen!

Storage IS an option while you find a new place and get settled......Once the repaint is done and certain upgrades in progress.....

Well, Keith, NOW you've done it.   got me THINKING.

First thing that popped up?    Sure....have 2 switches....one for heaters...and the other for the HV.....Need to interrupt that one before the transformer so you dont' have a switch with 500vac on it!   

But what I remember from the days of the 4 or 5 tube 'table radio' was why NOT just put a diode in there somewhere and run the heaters ALL the time?....than go to full power when you switch on?
Wouldn't surprise me if you could use a thermister in the rectifier to get enough time delay to satisfy the tubes....
And It'd be a surprise if you actually didn't IMPROVE tube life by having them 'sort of' warm all the time......no more cycling of temps......

[turner]

I'm rocking the BassX A2 and I'm very happy with it. I crossed shopped the Schitt Audio Vidar 2. I wanted a good clean amp, and it does a very good job. Speakers are a kit from madisound using Seas Prestige drivers. They are resolving and have low enough distortion to make poor quality sources sound dull and to put them in the don't listen to pile.

I spent more than I wanted on a network streamer / DAC near the same time, I didn't want to spend too much on the amp. Once clean power is reached, I've always felt that speakers, placement and overall setup as well as great source music makes the most difference. I've reached my personal reference system goals and don't feel the need to upgrade.

I don't personally like my music really loud, so I can't say how well the BassX series works pushed near the limit, but for general loud playback, it sounds great.

[leonski]

2 things, -turner.

More sensitive speakers YOU LIKE is as good as buying more watts.....

Different speakers, though, may be the same sensitivity but way different power handling.......
The folks who like it Really Loud buy speakers like Cerwin Vega.....that sort of thing....

Don't worry about spending more than you think you 'should'......Gear of VALUE should last
and still sound fine.
Old Dynaco amplifiers are still being rebuilt and you can even buy NEW manufacture. 50 years into the design.

Your Seas Prestige drivers should be good for the long haul.....

My last speaker upgrade was 15 to 20 years ago. My last Electronics upgrade was nearly 10........

My goal? I'd LOVE to sell my speakers and amplifiers. IF I could find some Klipsch I like? Build a good TUBE amp......

[turner]

Oct 18, 2023 13:27:22 GMT -5 leonski said:

2 things, -turner.

More sensitive speakers YOU LIKE is as good as buying more watts.....

Different speakers, though, may be the same sensitivity but way different power handling.......
The folks who like it Really Loud buy speakers like Cerwin Vega.....that sort of thing....

Don't worry about spending more than you think you 'should'......Gear of VALUE should last
and still sound fine.
Old Dynaco amplifiers are still being rebuilt and you can even buy NEW manufacture. 50 years into the design.

Your Seas Prestige drivers should be good for the long haul.....

My last speaker upgrade was 15 to 20 years ago. My last Electronics upgrade was nearly 10........

My goal? I'd LOVE to sell my speakers and amplifiers. IF I could find some Klipsch I like? Build a good TUBE amp......

The Klipsch Heritage speakers might only need tube amps, but they can be driven by anything. I'd start with just the speakers. Who cares if you have too the moon overhead and your amps are working in 1st gear. If they sound great, why change?
I'd love to hear the modern versions. I got to hear Klipshorns in the 90s. Probably the 2nd gen, but the demo was stupid loud. I'm currently using a 2.1 setup and it sounds great, but I rather have stereo full range. I want to hear the newest version of the Forte IVs myself. Only a few db shy in the bass compared to the Cornwalls, but I suspect I would like the passive radiator alignment better.

[leonski]

Actually, I want to migrate UP to Los Angeles to a Heritage dealer and check out the Forte IV........the Forte III lasted maybe.....a year......

ALL speakers do not require the same 'watts'.......Big Box speakers do not need an amp with high Damping Factor while modern 'box' speakers and the lower efficiency SEALED stuff do, generally, need high damping.

One possible exception? Magnepan seems to do well with either Solid State OR Tube......

And for ME? I think of 'system'..... So for ME, I choose speakers and amps with each other in-mind. I also tend to think that 'better watts are better'......not just about MORE....Your BasX used the way YOU use it is FINE.
The Madisound speakers get good reviews from the builders......And their choices are pretty good....and you get a little DIY in for good measure!
That does not include 500 watt monoblock amps and 100db sensitive speakers. Utter waste. Especially considering such a speaker will get you evicted from your STATE with
maybe 10 watts per speaker. I've been round and round with people having an entire system of a 5 channel amp (200x5), a TV, Processor, DAC, lighting and who knows WHAT else into a single 15amp circuit.
Me? Instead of 2000$ worth of mono amp? 1400$ worth of amp and spend 600 getting a 20 amp circuit dropped TO your system.....And maybe some well-considered ROOM TREATMENTS.

It is axiomatic that a GREAT stereo on a mediocre room doesnt' sound as good as a decent system in a terrific room........

And 100% agree. a 'Stupid Loud' demo is off-putting. Give ME the dam voluum control. We also agree on the Forte IV.......I have a sub, but it is crossed about mayb 40hz to 45hz......and the low cut to the main speakers (panels)'
is at 50hz to 55hz......It fills in NICELY....
I don't think I'd change anything with the Klipsch... And that would save a TINY BIT of power from the proposed New Tube Amp!


And yes, the few reviews I've seen OF the Forte IV have used 'either / or' for amps.....but the reviewer did NOT like the Parasound Halo Integrated as much WITH 'em.....

Me? Give me a couple days (week or so, maybe?) of 2 or 3 hour days and I'll assemble the VTA ST120 kit. 60x2......but I'd COUNT on 50 at low distortion....

[turner]

Oct 18, 2023 16:39:08 GMT -5 leonski said:

Actually, I want to migrate UP to Los Angeles to a Heritage dealer and check out the Forte IV........the Forte III lasted maybe.....a year......

ALL speakers do not require the same 'watts'.......Big Box speakers do not need an amp with high Damping Factor while modern 'box' speakers and the lower efficiency SEALED stuff do, generally, need high damping.

One possible exception? Magnepan seems to do well with either Solid State OR Tube......

And for ME? I think of 'system'..... So for ME, I choose speakers and amps with each other in-mind. I also tend to think that 'better watts are better'......not just about MORE....Your BasX used the way YOU use it is FINE.
The Madisound speakers get good reviews from the builders......And their choices are pretty good....and you get a little DIY in for good measure!
That does not include 500 watt monoblock amps and 100db sensitive speakers. Utter waste. Especially considering such a speaker will get you evicted from your STATE with
maybe 10 watts per speaker. I've been round and round with people having an entire system of a 5 channel amp (200x5), a TV, Processor, DAC, lighting and who knows WHAT else into a single 15amp circuit.
Me? Instead of 2000$ worth of mono amp? 1400$ worth of amp and spend 600 getting a 20 amp circuit dropped TO your system.....And maybe some well-considered ROOM TREATMENTS.

It is axiomatic that a GREAT stereo on a mediocre room doesnt' sound as good as a decent system in a terrific room........

And 100% agree. a 'Stupid Loud' demo is off-putting. Give ME the dam voluum control. We also agree on the Forte IV.......I have a sub, but it is crossed about mayb 40hz to 45hz......and the low cut to the main speakers (panels)'
is at 50hz to 55hz......It fills in NICELY....
I don't think I'd change anything with the Klipsch... And that would save a TINY BIT of power from the proposed New Tube Amp!


And yes, the few reviews I've seen OF the Forte IV have used 'either / or' for amps.....but the reviewer did NOT like the Parasound Halo Integrated as much WITH 'em.....

Me? Give me a couple days (week or so, maybe?) of 2 or 3 hour days and I'll assemble the VTA ST120 kit. 60x2......but I'd COUNT on 50 at low distortion....

I get the mismatch of power vs very efficient speakers. I'd consider the Schiiht REGIR. I don't personally have anything against tube amps, other than the tubes wear out and they are heating units. They can be beautify works of art for sure. It would be nice if McIntosh would make a lower watt version of the new MA252 Hybrid. That would probably be a sweet spot.

[turner]

I understand why you need X amount of power to run X amount of efficient speakers at a desired level at listening distance, but I guess I don't understand why it's a problem to have too much power with really efficient speakers if you have a good preamp control and you don't over power the max rating of speakers. It seems it would just take way less gain to get the desired results. Headroom galore.