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Post by leonski on Oct 24, 2023 1:39:39 GMT -5
I went to the local dealer today. I hadn't know that these guys even sold the Heritage line, but there they were.
And only about 10 miles each way. They even had some in the Distressed Oak. Better and Better.
Only problem was the SS amplifier. I'll go back and see if any Tube Gear pops up. I saw an MC275 which should cover
that base, if only a little.
Remarkeable speaker. Real slam. Didn't distort or show 'horn honkiness' with Blues Harp or heavily distorted guitar.
Blues came across well. Heard some Paul Butterfield, too.....Nice bass without 'bloat' or bloom....I think treating them
like my panels will allow use of a sub and give extended and musical DEEP bass.
I'll post more when I hear more, but I WILL go back.
I wonder if I can get these on a weekend demo? THAT would be nice.....though all I have are Parasound amps which
get odd reviews by some with the Klipsch.
Next up? See if a market exists for my Magnepans in San Diego. I could be persueded to maybe take 'em an hour
or so away, but you'll still need to come HERE for audition......
Stay Tuned.......
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turner
Sensei
Enjoy the music, not the gear.
Posts: 140
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Post by turner on Oct 25, 2023 12:51:01 GMT -5
I'd have to drive about an hour and a half to demo them. Did you happen to listen to the Jubilee? Or the Cornwall IVs? You can also custom order (at an added cost) the distressed oak on other Klipsch speakers. Can also choose the grill material too. They might exclude limited anniversary speakers, but for normal production, you can get them how you want. If you do end up getting them, I'd seriously consider running them without a sub. They should have plenty of low end punch as is. Also, matching a sub to the forward sound of the Klipsch seems difficult.
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Post by leonski on Oct 25, 2023 14:06:15 GMT -5
First? The place I went was NOT a warehouse, so no room for the Jubilee....which is what.....40 grand the pair?
And yes, one reviewer I read said that Klipsch will make any speaker in any finish.....he had some Corwalls in a very white.....Birch? Finish.....
I stuck with what I could conceive myself affording. And I skipped the less $$ Heresy, too......
Because of what I see as the 'measured data' from Stereophile for the FORTE III, I'll low cut them about 50hz, which also avoids a huge phase
shift and run the sub from 40 or 45 DOWN.....Sub has a 24db octave cross built in and the bass managment of my pre has a 12 db octave to the mains......
Phase issues become magnified with TUBE gear which is something I'd like to explore. The VTA ST120 should be wonderful with the Forte....I hope!
I'll have to SEE about 'sub matching' if I get that far. I don't anticipate a problem.....BUT may have space constraints since my panels tend to take up
a little less space than the proposed 'box' speaker....But getting rid of the amps BEHIND each panel, as it now is, will ALSO free up some space.
I may get out the ruler and make a template of the base size OF the Forte and see how it pencils in. I wish I still had access to GOOGLE Sketchup....
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Post by cwmcobra on Oct 25, 2023 17:07:35 GMT -5
I'd have to drive about an hour and a half to demo them. Did you happen to listen to the Jubilee? Or the Cornwall IVs? You can also custom order (at an added cost) the distressed oak on other Klipsch speakers. Can also choose the grill material too. They might exclude limited anniversary speakers, but for normal production, you can get them how you want. If you do end up getting them, I'd seriously consider running them without a sub. They should have plenty of low end punch as is. Also, matching a sub to the forward sound of the Klipsch seems difficult. I haven't heard any of the latest Klipsch models, but with my collection of original Heritage speakers, subs are necessary for my tastes. Really fills in the bottom end nicely for music and absolutely needed for home theater. But just my opinion. |
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Post by cwmcobra on Oct 25, 2023 17:09:30 GMT -5
I may get out the ruler and make a template of the base size OF the Forte and see how it pencils in. I wish I still had access to GOOGLE Sketchup.... There is still a free version of Sketchup available. www.sketchup.com/Hope you have fun with it! |
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Post by leonski on Oct 25, 2023 17:10:16 GMT -5
Based on MY preferences and measured data....including rate of roll-off of low frequencies? I'd 100% AGREE.
Mid-30s and falling fast does NOT get you into movie effects or lowest pipe organ territory.....
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turner
Sensei
Enjoy the music, not the gear.
Posts: 140
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Post by turner on Oct 26, 2023 7:10:51 GMT -5
If you want to run a sub no matter what, why not consider the Heresy IVs?
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turner
Sensei
Enjoy the music, not the gear.
Posts: 140
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Post by turner on Oct 26, 2023 12:47:18 GMT -5
Based on MY preferences and measured data....including rate of roll-off of low frequencies? I'd 100% AGREE. Mid-30s and falling fast does NOT get you into movie effects or lowest pipe organ territory..... Where did you find measured data? I was trying to compare the Forte IVs to the Cornwall IVs. Not surprised bass falls off fast in a PR alignment. That would match WinISD modeling I've done in the past. I'd imagine the Cornwall IVs bass would roll off a lot smoother, but I can't find a source to compare. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 26, 2023 13:08:08 GMT -5
Stereophile has a good measurement panel for the Forte III.......So that does NOT cover the new crossover.....which has steeper slopes.....
I've seen a pic of the new crossover and it is populated with No-Name caps and iron core inductors......
NOW that you mention it? I'd LOVE to see a schematic.......Going to aircore MIGHT be possible and a premium cap for sure......
Cornwall DOES go deeper. But I can't go that Expense.....And I already own a decent sub.
I think one major difference between the Forte IV an Heresy IV is the midrange driver. SAME part but different HORN.....??
HF drive for forte/heresy/cornwall is the same callout, but the Forte specifies a K-79t horn....Unknown for others......
SOMEBODY else has measured the IV. But I'd have to look.......Even some of those radiation pattern plots......
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turner
Sensei
Enjoy the music, not the gear.
Posts: 140
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Post by turner on Oct 26, 2023 14:38:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about iron core inductors for the woofers. You enjoyed them as is right?
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Post by leonski on Oct 26, 2023 17:20:03 GMT -5
Yes......sure DID!
I'm a little on the OCD side......a symptom of having been a Magnepan owner for about 40 years.......
The DIY movement is alive and well in MaggieLand...and centers on 2 main issues. Reframe / Stands
and Crossovers......
Once upon a time, the iron core inductor (16ga wire.....0.4ohms DCR) was the subject of hot debate.
I won't go into details but all sorts of stuff was floated, including 'ribbon' inductors......
So, they will stay AS ISSUED for quite some time.......
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Post by leonski on Oct 26, 2023 18:17:31 GMT -5
I've taken a look at the 3 main Klipsch contenders in the Heritage line.
ALL three use the same MIDRANGE driver......K-702
The Forte uses the K-703-M horn......This does NOT look like the Heresy, which use the SAME driver.....
But does appear to be the same as the Cornwall......
All three tweeters appear to be the same driver and horn.....the K-107 with unknown horn...
Bass is of course different with more $$$ going lower......Some discussion about Passive Radiator
with additional distoriton. I think that MAY apply at the highest levels.....But If I go to PLAN and
crossover at 50hz or so? I can avoid the worst of it at the lowest frequencies.....
If anyone knows better, please chime in. Some information is not printed while other information
I've gleaned from disassembly videos! They all seem well made, though I'd add some sound deadening
and If I started from scratch, some additional bracing.....i might even wrap the exterior of the midrange
horn with dynamat or similar.....though it IS of low-resonance plastic or filled resin of some sort....
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Post by leonski on Oct 27, 2023 0:19:46 GMT -5
2 things MORE!
First? I've confirmed on the KLIPSCH website that some speakers.....(Heritage line) ARE available with optional finish. I need to find out costing on this....
And if SIPO Mahogany is available or some 'white' wood...Birch? or a light MAPLE? (Quarter Sawn)
Second? Any opinions on the Forte IV with a Parasound A23 of 125x2 8 ohm watts? Technically within Klipsch advertised power limits AND the Para has
a pretty good and robust power supply considering the claimed power.......
I could hook this amp up to my preamp with Balanced CAbles......a win-win, even though neither piece is 'native balanced'. I suspect an inperceptible help
with acqured hum and noise.....
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 27, 2023 17:34:40 GMT -5
“Only problem was the SS amplifier.” Problem?? |
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turner
Sensei
Enjoy the music, not the gear.
Posts: 140
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Post by turner on Oct 27, 2023 17:38:31 GMT -5
First? The place I went was NOT a warehouse, so no room for the Jubilee....which is what.....40 grand the pair? And yes, one reviewer I read said that Klipsch will make any speaker in any finish.....he had some Corwalls in a very white.....Birch? Finish..... I stuck with what I could conceive myself affording. And I skipped the less $$ Heresy, too...... Because of what I see as the 'measured data' from Stereophile for the FORTE III, I'll low cut them about 50hz, which also avoids a huge phase shift and run the sub from 40 or 45 DOWN.....Sub has a 24db octave cross built in and the bass managment of my pre has a 12 db octave to the mains...... Phase issues become magnified with TUBE gear which is something I'd like to explore. The VTA ST120 should be wonderful with the Forte....I hope! I'll have to SEE about 'sub matching' if I get that far. I don't anticipate a problem.....BUT may have space constraints since my panels tend to take up a little less space than the proposed 'box' speaker....But getting rid of the amps BEHIND each panel, as it now is, will ALSO free up some space. I may get out the ruler and make a template of the base size OF the Forte and see how it pencils in. I wish I still had access to GOOGLE Sketchup.... I wasn't suggesting you buy them, but they don't take a warehouse. Just wondering if you had the chance to hear the Jubilee. www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsl6ZxwkwgwApparently, only 36K, not a full 40K.  |
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Post by leonski on Oct 27, 2023 18:13:34 GMT -5
Few places, probably, will keep a pair on hand. I would expect MAYBE to find 'em up on Los Angeles at a HUGE stereo store...if such still exists.
And they would appear TO take a larger than average space to make 'em work......I don't know if I could get 'em even IN my house!
I've seen the GIANT 6 foot tall Focal Grand Utopia or whatever.....at a show in a hotel room......Sorry....Didn't work for me.
The place I went in the next town over is not HUGE, but have been there for nearly 2 decades. If they had a pair of the Jubilee? You'd have to step
outside into the parking lot to change your mind.....Just Kidding.....
In the OLD DAYS we had a place 45 minutes from here (doable!) which had 6 or 7 rooms and maybe 1500 or 1600 square feet......BIG They kept a pair
of Corner Horns out in the lobby!
I stuck to my first order goal of hearing the Forte IV. It seems it has the same mid and tweet as the Cornwall.....but of course, different bass and cab.
And sales tax will be a more....modest 500$ or so.....
Yes, I was a little over on my guess. But here in California? 36000 is taxed at a minimum of 8% with some places having higher rates.....
San Fran is about 8.6% while a few lucky places are OVEr 10%. This is 'local' stuff.....So you are maybe nearly 3000$ in additional TAX!
For the Really Rich? No Matter. Cost of what you want. But I look at that and shake my head!
If I had 40 large simply Extra? I'd think room addition of some sort......with an 'ear' towards a dedicated listening area.....
And since I've seen ONE too many 'Shark Tank'.....I think in terms of 'space'. For the guy with a modest sounding 1000$ for a pair of speakers?
MAN! Dozens if not hundreds of choices. The Forte IV is less than the 3.x Series Magnepan.....by a thousand and change. And take up less
floor space while not needing the 'loading' needed by panels......I've been thru LOTS of that!
and for 405? I wish to hear the Forte with a decent EL34 or KT88 level power amp....IMO, it would be a shame to have a 95db sensitive speaker and
not even TRY it with tubes.....
I could build one of the VTA amps....the ST120 would be perfect..... New chassis design gives a little more room.....and I'd use a solid state rectifier
and add the HV time delay relay....
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Post by leonski on Oct 27, 2023 18:18:08 GMT -5
Few places, probably, will keep a pair on hand. I would expect MAYBE to find 'em up on Los Angeles at a HUGE stereo store...if such still exists.
And they would appear TO take a larger than average space to make 'em work......I don't know if I could get 'em even IN my house!
I've seen the GIANT 6 foot tall Focal Grand Utopia or whatever.....at a show in a hotel room......Sorry....Didn't work for me.
The place I went in the next town over is not HUGE, but have been there for nearly 2 decades. If they had a pair of the Jubilee? You'd have to step
outside into the parking lot to change your mind.....Just Kidding.....
In the OLD DAYS we had a place 45 minutes from here (doable!) which had 6 or 7 rooms and maybe 1500 or 1600 square feet......BIG They kept a pair
of Corner Horns out in the lobby!
I stuck to my first order goal of hearing the Forte IV. It seems it has the same mid and tweet as the Cornwall.....but of course, different bass and cab.
And sales tax will be a more....modest 500$ or so.....
Yes, I was a little over on my guess. But here in California? 36000 is taxed at a minimum of 8% with some places having higher rates.....
San Fran is about 8.6% while a few lucky places are OVEr 10%. This is 'local' stuff.....So you are maybe nearly 3000$ in additional TAX!
For the Really Rich? No Matter. Cost of what you want. But I look at that and shake my head!
If I had 40 large simply Extra? I'd think room addition of some sort......with an 'ear' towards a dedicated listening area.....
And since I've seen ONE too many 'Shark Tank'.....I think in terms of 'space'. For the guy with a modest sounding 1000$ for a pair of speakers?
MAN! Dozens if not hundreds of choices. The Forte IV is less than the 3.x Series Magnepan.....by a thousand and change. And take up less
floor space while not needing the 'loading' needed by panels......I've been thru LOTS of that!
I suppose you could just listen than buy....regardless of cost. But many persons will decide on a budget than listen for the best value.....
I remember 40 years or so ago when I couldn't even afford the than 'aspirational' Large Advent.....
and for 405? I wish to hear the Forte with a decent EL34 or KT88 level power amp....IMO, it would be a shame to have a 95db sensitive speaker and
not even TRY it with tubes.....
I could build one of the VTA amps....the ST120 would be perfect..... New chassis design gives a little more room.....and I'd use a solid state rectifier
and add the HV time delay relay....
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Post by leonski on Oct 30, 2023 1:12:51 GMT -5
I just took a LOOK at a video for the KLIPSCH Jubilee....
I noticed they were taller than the guy doing the video.
And he probably couldn't get his hands across the width.....
So I looked 'em up on the Klipsch webite.
Gigantic 69" tall is 5'9" and with both sections LF / HF together, about 400lb.....EACH.
If I were Moving a set? It's gonna be 4 trips with even a pickup truck (no roof) while I doubt I could get
the LF section in my 'Lament.....
I know I made a crack about needing a warehouse for 'em....but WOW.....I've seen taller speakers.
And original Magnepan Tympani (a LONG time ago) were 3 panel and wide......
But these guys take the cake.....
You need several people to assemble. If I bought some, I'd expect them to include installation and
shipping TO my house with a dedicated assembly crew to set 'em up......
Certainly among the largest home speakers ever made and sold.......
I wouldn't even consider these with a room smaller than maybe 1200 square feet.....call it 11,000 CUBIC feet.....
That's 40x30 with a 9 foot ceiling....
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turner
Sensei
Enjoy the music, not the gear.
Posts: 140
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Post by turner on Oct 30, 2023 16:38:25 GMT -5
“Only problem was the SS amplifier.” Problem?? This! www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5L-V-2i4BkWhile I don't always agree with reviews and it's easy to armchair critique, in this case, it seems tube amps can't control bass as much. At least in the affordable range. Not to suggest the best of the best can't. In many cases, solid state is still a great option. |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 30, 2023 16:52:19 GMT -5
This! www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5L-V-2i4BkWhile I don't always agree with reviews and it's easy to armchair critique, in this case, it seems tube amps can't control bass as much. At least in the affordable range. Not to suggest the best of the best can't. In many cases, solid state is still a great option. I had a ton of fun with my tube amps. When I was very young When I was very young, all they had were tube amps. (lol.) that being said, the transition to solid state was a revelation for me all the coolness, and POWER. after that the thought of going back never occurred to me. The impressions I were getting was that they were very accurate almost too much in a way just kind of weird with hearing absolutely nothing, except the sound of the music background noise of any kind. I totally get the appreciation people have for the tube amplifiers today. I’m simply not there. |
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