dolby restrictions on Emotiva how to upmix to DSU ?

[gary3917]

Native Dolby Atmos content shall NOT be up-mixed, surround or height virtualized by any 3rd party competitor upmixer (ie. DTS or Auro-3D).

Channel-Based DD/DD+, Dolby TrueHD 5.1 and 7.1 codecs shall not be height virtualized by any 3rd party upmixer (ie. DTS). (This implies height virtualization without height speakers. DTS has this capability but Auro-3D does not).

Quoted : This was supposed to take effect on new Atmos enabled products for 2019....but it hasn't seemed to take effect on any products we are currently aware of aside from the Emotiva RMC-1 and XMC-2. If you purchased an Atmos/DTS:X AV receiver or processor today, the ability to crossmix upmixers for 2CH or 5.1 sources hasn't seemed to been removed in a majority of AV products.

So now what  ? No wonder I can not upmix a 2 channel stereo signal .Where is the selection to Dolby Surround Upmix (DSU) .I guess it is time to send this unit back ....I had no idea .Is this true ?

Gary

[doc1963]

Dolby rescinded those “cross mixing” restrictions shortly after they came up with the scheme.

My Marantz AV8805 received a firmware update shortly after I purchased it to enforce Dolby’s wishes which removed the ability to use, let’s say, DTS Neural:X (or Auro's Auro-Matic renderer) to re-render otherwise lackluster Dolby mixes. Shortly thereafter, Marantz issued another firmware update to reverse Dolby’s restriction. That update happened pretty quickly.

On the other hand, my RMC-1L came already “disabled” out of the box. Emotiva can remove this restriction, but has yet to do so. This has all been discussed before and their side of the story is that it requires "a lot of work". And while that is likely true, let's not lose sight of the fact that Dolby removed this restriction nearly FIVE YEARS ago.

So after this long, I don’t see this situation ever changing outside of a Gen4 upgrade, so do what you gotta do…

[gary3917]

Is there a way to upmix a 2 channel signal ? My whole experiance for years was to use the wide center mode and also to listen with all of my speakers .i noticed when playing any tracks on any channel (youtube ,Peacock or anything that is not Atmos ...it goes to Atmos on my xmc2 panel but it is only playing out my 2 front speakers but it will not upmix it to all my speakers and I do not understand why my xmc2 will not offer another procesor mode except stereo or direct or the horrible sounding all channel stereo . Am I missing something here ? I will say this ...when I do play a Atmos netflix or blueray ...it is awesome .I live as many channels as I can get and not sound crappy like the All Channel Stereo .
Me

[thezone]

I always upmix 2ch to multi-channel using the Dolby upmixer on my XMC-2. This function has always been available on the XMC-2. The only way it wouldn't do this, is if you are sending a 2ch signal in a multi-channel container where there are multiple channels being sent but only front L&R contain a signal and so therefore the XMC-2 would not recognize it is 2ch.

[doc1963]

What’s your source component…? The only way that I can imagine a 2 channel soundtrack being seen as “Atmos” on a G3P is “if” it’s being sent within a Dolby MAT container.

[ttocs]

Feb 7, 2024 19:37:41 GMT -5 thezone said:

I always upmix 2ch to multi-channel using the Dolby upmixer on my XMC-2. This function has always been available on the XMC-2. The only way it wouldn't do this, is if you are sending a 2ch signal in a multi-channel container where there are multiple channels being sent but only front L&R contain a signal and so therefore the XMC-2 would not recognize it is 2ch.

The post linked below describes what happens with Roku which falsely outputs an ATMOS tag from a 2.0 audio stream and will only produce sound in the Front L&R channels from my XMC-2.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1121582/thread

[gary3917]

Thanx again for you help . I am using Roku Ultra and if I use passthru then it gives me Surround mode and then it upmixes all chanells, but does not  have sound great
Can you give me the steps how to achieve this...as you stated :
I always upmix 2ch to multi-channel using the Dolby upmixer on my XMC-2. This function has always been available on the XMC-2 .
I have not found the options for "the Dolby upmixer"?
Thank you ttocs
Gary

[thezone]

Feb 7, 2024 20:11:11 GMT -5 gary3917 said:

Thanx again for you help . I am using Roku Ultra and if I use passthru then it gives me Surround mode and then it upmixes all chanells, but does not  have sound great
Can you give me the steps how to achieve this...as you stated :
I always upmix 2ch to multi-channel using the Dolby upmixer on my XMC-2. This function has always been available on the XMC-2 .
I have not found the options for "the Dolby upmixer"?
Thank you ttocs
Gary

Please read pages 63-65 of the manual.  You set the XMC so that when a 2.0 signal is received it defaults to Auto surround mode which will upmix the sound to whatever speakers you haver configured as available. 

[gary3917]

Thank you Got it !! I have to go into Roku Ultra settings and set it to Passthrough ....not Auto or even dloby as it  will not send it to the XMC2 right ...it must be set to Passthrough only (Roku) and then set my XMC2 to Auto or Surround mode in my input HDMI xmc2. If you notice when i play a youtube music song  ....or even the Peacock streaming with the Roku set to Auto...Roku sends it wrongly and reads on XMC2  panel  Atmos / True HD  Front speakers Left and Right only will play and that is roku sending it wrong....So , long story short , if you want XMC2 to upmix it correctly and play all your speakers you must set Roku to Passthrough and XMC2 to Auto. WHEW finally it is the screwy Roku . I think I will keep my XMC2. Thank you everyone for your help !
Gary

[thezone]

Actually, I have a question related to this - Why doesn't the DSU synthesize an LFE track from 2ch music? EG it seems to only take the left and right and mix them into surround channels, there is no additional bass synthesized in a type of "LFE" track. The only reason you would get a sub track is if you have bass management activated for some or all of your speakers.

[PaulBe]

Feb 11, 2024 23:30:19 GMT -5 thezone said:

Actually, I have a question related to this - Why doesn't the DSU synthesize an LFE track from 2ch music? EG it seems to only take the left and right and mix them into surround channels, there is no additional bass synthesized in a type of "LFE" track. The only reason you would get a sub track is if you have bass management activated for some or all of your speakers.

I think the answer is implicit in your post statement.  Any Sub track has to come from other channels - IE bass management.  Having a synthesized LFE And bass management is redundant at best.  It's a recipe for trouble.  I rarely use up-mixers, but I've never heard much bass in the up-mix to surround channels.