ERC digital to receiver, is it worth it?

[shawmcbigdis]

I accidently posted this in the review section last night So I'm just cutting and pasting it over here.


I currently use an Oppo 980 as my multi-disc player hooked up via HDMI to my Onkyo 707. The 707 has Burr Brown DAC's, but from what I've read is less than stellar on it's analog inputs (I have everything hooked up via digital, so I wouldn't know first hand).

Would there be any point in getting an ERC-1 in my situation? I would assume it would sound worse if it's hooked up via analog. If it's hooked up via digital, will it really sound that much better than the Oppo?

Response;
"You have to hook up the analog outs from the ERC to the multi-channel analog inputs on your Onkyo to get the best sound. I think the main problem people have is that they see the "CD" analog input on the back of their input and automatically plug their CDP in and think it's the best option while in reality it's not because AVR is then doing an analog-to-digital conversion and then another digital-to-analog conversion which worsens the sound. To get the most out of better CDPs (ones where the DACs are superior to whats in the AVR) you have to hook them up to the 7.1 outs because there is no processing going on at all and the signal remains untouched. In short, the ERC will blow the Oppo away for CD playback."

My Response;
As for the input to my Onkyo. It does not have a 7.1 analog input. I get SACD/DVD-A from the Oppo via HDMI. Every input on the Onkyo does have a "pure audio" setting, which does no processing to the input, thus I would assume it stays analog the whole time when this is engaged. But there is still the issue of it not really having a very good analog section to begin with, so would I gain anything by going that way.

Also the Onkyo has Burr Brown DAC's, is the DAC in the ERC really vastly superior to them (or even superior at all)? So if there is no benefit in using the ERC's DAC, and/or no point in using the Onkyo's analog input, will there be any improvement in using the ERC at all? And if so, can someone explain how/why it would be better?

Thanks

[sanjaygolf]

Oops, I guess I should've checked your AVR's specs. But I still stick with my point that the ERC will be vastly superior to the Oppo or Onkyo for cd playback. Yes, the ERC's DAC is superior to that in the Onkyo. But it's just not the DAC that matters. Think about it this way; the ERC's sole function is CD playback and it costs $400. All the effort that went into designing it went to making sure it had the best cd playback. Your Onkyo on the hand costs slightly more than the ERC but has way more other functions to take care and chances are $400 worth didnt go into making sure it had the best cd playback. There's a good chance not even $50 went into it. I'm not trying to knock your AVR; I'm just trying to point out AVRs are all-in-one units but they dont specialize in anything. For the best CD playback you need units that specialize in that and the ERC is one of them.

Sorry for my rant. Have you thought about getting a preamp like the USP-1? To fully take advantage of the ERC you would need a good preamp and USP will give you that plus it offers HT bypass so it could easily integrate with your AVR.

[shawmcbigdis]

Feb 24, 2010 13:57:43 GMT -5 sanjaygolf said:

Oops, I guess I should've checked your AVR's specs. But I still stick with my point that the ERC will be vastly superior to the Oppo or Onkyo for cd playback. Yes, the ERC's DAC is superior to that in the Onkyo. But it's just not the DAC that matters. Think about it this way; the ERC's sole function is CD playback and it costs $400. All the effort that went into designing it went to making sure it had the best cd playback. Your Onkyo on the hand costs slightly more than the ERC but has way more other functions to take care and chances are $400 worth didnt go into making sure it had the best cd playback. There's a good chance not even $50 went into it. I'm not trying to knock your AVR; I'm just trying to point out AVRs are all-in-one units but they dont specialize in anything. For the best CD playback you need units that specialize in that and the ERC is one of them.

Sorry for my rant. Have you thought about getting a preamp like the USP-1? To fully take advantage of the ERC you would need a good preamp and USP will give you that plus it offers HT bypass so it could easily integrate with your AVR.

First of all, about the USP. I've thought about that, but now instead of spending $400 to upgrade my CD performance, I'm spending $800, and that's getting harder to justify. Also, from some things I've read on this forum I don't think the by-pass mode works the way I want it to. It seems the high pass and low pas filters are active on the outputs, something I don't want, I want real pass through, if I can't get that, then it's not an option to put in line.

As for the ERC and the receiver. I still don't understand why the ERC would be better than the Oppo, in this situation. I get that the ERC is a fantastic CDP, I'm not disputing that. My point being, if the Onkyo's analog inputs are as bad as some say, then it would seem silly to use the analog output from the ERC into the Onkyo, and thus ruin it's highly detailed output in the Onkyo's crappy analog section. But if I use the digital output on the ERC what is that giving me over the Oppo? At that point it's just a pure digital stream, so what difference does it make?

[audiodragon]

If you are using the digital output from the ERC-1 to your AVR, then no, it will not be any better than the Oppo. In this setup you are using the ERC-1 strictly as a transport. You will not notice any difference.

If your Onkyo does have a pure audio setting that bypasses the AD-DA post processing for the analog cd input, than it essentially becomes a big volume control. In this case there would definately be a difference, but only if the onkyo actually removes all AD-DA conversions, gets itself out of the way, and allows the path to be purely analog. As to the analog section being "bad", you would have to let your ears judge. I can't imagine anything better than a cheap HTIB having such lousy analog path as to be noticable.

With the 30 day trial, you can send for one, and try both hook up methods. If you don't notice any difference, send it back

[sanjaygolf]

To answer your initial question, no you will not benefit from moving from the Oppo to the ERC since you'll be using the digital inputs. But if you do ever feel like you want to step up your CD listening experience definitely look into getting the ERC/USP. That combo with your UPA-1s, B&W 804s and SVS PB12-Plus/2 would be jaw dropping.

[shawmcbigdis]

Feb 24, 2010 20:10:10 GMT -5 sanjaygolf said:

To answer your initial question, no you will not benefit from moving from the Oppo to the ERC since you'll be using the digital inputs. But if you do ever feel like you want to step up your CD listening experience definitely look into getting the ERC/USP. That combo with your UPA-1s, B&W 804s and SVS PB12-Plus/2 would be jaw dropping.

Well I might try an ERC analog to the Onkyo, if it sounds good Ill just go that way.

I would love to get the ERC and USP, but like I said the bypass function isn't truly a bypass. With the high and low-pass filters in play it messes up the Audyssey EQ'ing of the Onkyo. I thought about using Y-cables or some kind of switch box, but that is such a hack, and could introduce problems of it's own.

[SticknStones]

you might sell the 707 and pick up the marantz 7001 for $400 that is listed in the Emporium. It will get you much closer to your goal.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium&action=display&thread=9819

[shawmcbigdis]

So I picked up an ERC off the forum. It arrived last night and I hooked it up as soon as I got home (analog to the Onkyo). The wife couldn't understand why I had to spend $300+ on a CD player that "wasn't even a changer". She just shrugged it off and let me go about my business.

Didn't really have any time to do any critical A/B listening compared to the Oppo, so I just threw in a disc I had been listening to earlier in the week, Dave Mathews Band, Crash. Right off the bat I thought it sounded better, not a vast improvement, but more air and better separation of instruments. But I was going off several days old memory, so I wasn't going to make a distinct call on it yet.

As I was listening the wife was sitting next to me, fairly oblivious to the whole thing. I then started admiring the remote, and I handed it to her. She couldn't help but admit that it was pretty impressive, even she said it was to bad we had the Harmony and probably wouldn't ever use the actual remote for it. OK, + 1 for the ERC, it's starting to win her over.

Then she goes back to her thing and I just sit back and listen. It was just a very nice experience, it was starting to get late and I was getting tired, and then all of a sudden I was like, "what the heck is that?" I look over at my wife and she's looking up also. I can't even remember what song it was but all of a sudden there were whole instruments there that me and my wife had never heard before! It was clear as day. My wife looked at me and said "is that part of the music?" I was like "Yep, I've listened to this album dozens (if not hundreds) of times and I've never heard that". +100 for the ERC, worth the price of admission right there, even the wife had to agree to that.

Of course now I have to go back and see if I can hear that on the Oppo. Like it said it was getting late, maybe something was playing tricks with my mind, but I'm pretty sure the ERC is a clear winner here.