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Post by jr1414 on Mar 5, 2010 11:41:51 GMT -5
While I'm still awaiting the tap on the shoulder to tell me it's time to order a UMC-1, I have had a growing level of concerns about the product. I have now read countless accounts of bugs, some widespread, some very isolated.
My main concerns are:
1) HDMI implementation. It appears that there are multiple sync issues related to this device. I know that the HDMI "standards" are hardly standard, but my issue is that I currently have a nice, but fairly unsophisiticated A/V receiver in my living room setup, which is also my main theater area. (It is connected to an IPS-1) This unit (which shall go unnamed, unless you'd like to ask me in a PM) handles HDMI from a PS3, Bluray Player, HD DVR, HD DVD Player and HTPC to a projector and has not had a hiccup with HDMI handling since day one. No sync issues, no audio dropouts, just smooth, trouble free operation. The receiver is what I'm looking to replace, and until the UMC-1 is stable in this area, I believe I'll hold off. Are the issues with HDMI possibly hardware related? I know this area was part of the manufacturing delay for the unit, and that it was hardware related. Perhaps the new solution also has issues? I cannot accept that it is an HDMI standards problem, when my simple receiver does these tasks without any issue.
2) Audio Frequency/EQ/Bass management. Since the area in question is my main living space, there are multiple room issues. I've done some minor room treatment and have been very happy with the results, but some issues exist in every room that is not a designed, exclusive listening space. That being said, having these capabilites which work reliably is also of high importance. I currently have a Behringer DSP1124 helping to tame my low frequency issues, but it would be real nice to have this capability in the UMC-1. One less space on the rack to take up and put something I can enjoy more! I'm fairly certain that these are software related issues, so hopefully they can be resolved. ON the other hand, it's also a bit ambitious to think that the team at Emotiva have the resources to compete with the likes of Audyssey, who specialize in these technologies. If it can work reasonably well and reliably, I'll be quite happy. I've had to temper my expectations in this area especially and they remain a major concern at this point.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that the UMC-1 will be a tremendous value once these issues are resolved, but my faith in finding a resolution in a timely matter is fading quickly. I have a growing fear that there is a hardware issue related to HDMI, and I would hate to pull everything out of the rack, re-connect everything, setup the processor and then find that a) it does not perform all of the features advertised adequately, or even worse, b) will require a hardware upgrade for proper operation.
Perhaps someone from Emotiva can shed a little more light on these areas? It would go a long way to restoring my faith in the product.
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Post by BillBauman on Mar 5, 2010 12:18:09 GMT -5
Your concerns are all well-warranted. If you'd like my opinion, I suggest this thread: emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=9987I had stayed pretty quiet until recently, but there are more and more people that don't own yet asking questions like yourself. The only way to know how the product will ultimately end up performing is to wait. That wait could be 1 week, if next week everything is fixed. Ummm.. not likely. Or, it could be an indefinite wait until it's generally agreed that there will be no more updates and the product is what it is. That time frame is probably more like 6 months to a year. |
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Post by jr1414 on Mar 5, 2010 14:04:07 GMT -5
Pretty much my thoughts. I, like you, did not expect a completely bug free unit from day 1. I'm willing to work through software updates, if there is a convenient way to perform them without removing the unit from the rack.
But I am still concerned that the HDMI issue is hardware and not software related. I'd hate to go through the excercise multiple times.
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Post by nickreberle on Mar 5, 2010 14:21:55 GMT -5
I have a umc-1 and after i updated the firmware, an easy process, it has been quite solid other than the known remote issue with the usp/umc. Everything sounds great and i am quite happy. I'm sure future software updates will make the very small annoyances go away.
Its not all bad news... people happy with products don't post as much.
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RSavage
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Post by RSavage on Mar 5, 2010 14:32:47 GMT -5
I think you are making this way more complicated than it is. You haven't even laid hands on a UMC yet and you have come to all manner of conclusions about how it works or doesn't work, and about whether any glitches are software or hardware related.
It's just a pre/pro. Deciding to buy or not really isn't particularly important in the overall scheme of things. If you aren't 'comfortable' that Emotiva will make a great product at a more than fair price, then just plug another pre/pro into your system. No big deal....no drama required. It's just music and video....it's supposed to be FUN.
Point of reference: I have a UMC-1 and it works great. Are there a couple niggles? Sure. Do they keep me and my wife from enjoying the hell out of our theater? NO WAY!
R
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Post by moodyman on Mar 5, 2010 17:42:16 GMT -5
2) Audio Frequency/EQ/Bass management. Since the area in question is my main living space, there are multiple room issues. I've done some minor room treatment and have been very happy with the results, but some issues exist in every room that is not a designed, exclusive listening space. That being said, having these capabilites which work reliably is also of high importance. I currently have a Behringer DSP1124 helping to tame my low frequency issues, but it would be real nice to have this capability in the UMC-1. One less space on the rack to take up and put something I can enjoy more! I'm fairly certain that these are software related issues, so hopefully they can be resolved. ON the other hand, it's also a bit ambitious to think that the team at Emotiva have the resources to compete with the likes of Audyssey, who specialize in these technologies. If it can work reasonably well and reliably, I'll be quite happy. I've had to temper my expectations in this area especially and they remain a major concern at this point. This is of importance to me too...The UMC-1 has a really good sub equalizer that the user can modify. I haven't seen any other AVR or pre/pro near this price that has this. The $1200 Integra 40.1 has a sub EQ but not as many bands as the UMC. Unfortunately my sub EQ was non-functional and I wound up returning my UMC. If it get's fixed (Dan L said it will) I'll purchase another one. Bear this mind though...there is no way that the UMC sub EQ will compare to the Behringer unit. The DSP1124 can do some really cool things that the UMC can't...namely parametric EQ. It was my intention to use the UMC to work in conjunction with the Behringer unit. I think you will be disappointed if you think you'll be able to replace the DSP1124 functions with the UMC... |
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Post by eiger on Mar 6, 2010 1:02:36 GMT -5
Give it time, the last few threads of people citing concerns about the UMC-1 have had threads locked by the police.
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Post by tdogroeder on Mar 6, 2010 6:48:38 GMT -5
Give it time, the last few threads of people citing concerns about the UMC-1 have had threads locked by the police. I don't understand why they lock certain negative threads about their product, it makes them look paranoid like they are hiding something or they just can't take the negative criticism. Over at avsforum their are several people that say stay away from the processors but jump on the amps. I give them the benefit of the doubt and hope they get the umc as perfect as possible and purchase later as I am on the pre-order list but decided not to purchase until things smooth out. |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Mar 6, 2010 7:49:21 GMT -5
Not to worry, the only reason those threads were locked is because they degraded from being a civil discussion to something we really don't want on this forum. We started the forum as a fun place for people to come and exchange ideas. Lately there have been a few people who have changed the overall tone of the forum from a fun place to hang out to something we don't want it to be. They feel as though they can turn this forum into their own personal dumping ground which I won't allow. When a few new comers start driving off long time members, then we have a problem. Just yesterday I was speaking with several of our long time members who voiced their concerns, so it became appearant it was time to make a few changes. That's all. I certainly don't have an issue with people voicing their questions, ideas, etc. But like I have said before, lets keep it civil and respectful. Otherwise, I will be forced to jump in and I really don't want too. In regards to the UMC, most of us are AXPONA this weekend. But as soon as I get back, we will be updating everyone on the new code set.  Have fun, voice your thoughts, but let's keep it respectful. |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Mar 6, 2010 8:12:00 GMT -5
2) Audio Frequency/EQ/Bass management. Since the area in question is my main living space, there are multiple room issues. I've done some minor room treatment and have been very happy with the results, but some issues exist in every room that is not a designed, exclusive listening space. That being said, having these capabilites which work reliably is also of high importance. I currently have a Behringer DSP1124 helping to tame my low frequency issues, but it would be real nice to have this capability in the UMC-1. One less space on the rack to take up and put something I can enjoy more! I'm fairly certain that these are software related issues, so hopefully they can be resolved. ON the other hand, it's also a bit ambitious to think that the team at Emotiva have the resources to compete with the likes of Audyssey, who specialize in these technologies. If it can work reasonably well and reliably, I'll be quite happy. I've had to temper my expectations in this area especially and they remain a major concern at this point. This is of importance to me too...The UMC-1 has a really good sub equalizer that the user can modify. I haven't seen any other AVR or pre/pro near this price that has this. The $1200 Integra 40.1 has a sub EQ but not as many bands as the UMC. Unfortunately my sub EQ was non-functional and I wound up returning my UMC. If it get's fixed (Dan L said it will) I'll purchase another one. Bear this mind though...there is no way that the UMC sub EQ will compare to the Behringer unit. The DSP1124 can do some really cool things that the UMC can't...namely parametric EQ. It was my intention to use the UMC to work in conjunction with the Behringer unit. I think you will be disappointed if you think you'll be able to replace the DSP1124 functions with the UMC... Was your unit defective or does the bass EQ not work in some specific ways for all units? |
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Post by moodyman on Mar 6, 2010 8:47:28 GMT -5
This is of importance to me too...The UMC-1 has a really good sub equalizer that the user can modify. I haven't seen any other AVR or pre/pro near this price that has this. The $1200 Integra 40.1 has a sub EQ but not as many bands as the UMC. Unfortunately my sub EQ was non-functional and I wound up returning my UMC. If it get's fixed (Dan L said it will) I'll purchase another one. Bear this mind though...there is no way that the UMC sub EQ will compare to the Behringer unit. The DSP1124 can do some really cool things that the UMC can't...namely parametric EQ. It was my intention to use the UMC to work in conjunction with the Behringer unit. I think you will be disappointed if you think you'll be able to replace the DSP1124 functions with the UMC... Was your unit defective or does the bass EQ not work in some specific ways for all units? Here's my thread on it: emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=9646Some people have reported the same problem..some say their's works ok. Emotiva has said they are coming out with a fix for it. |
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Post by elee532 on Mar 6, 2010 12:44:17 GMT -5
Admin, I really urge you to be more balanced in your approach. You seem only willing to see things from the perspective of the Emo fanatics. I would contend, in fact, that if anything is driving people away from this forum it is the incessant defensiveness and attacks from a few longtime members. Seriously, I see more threads degrade when people are attacked for voicing concerns or attempting to provide honest and constructive feedback. Have you really taken the time to objectively evaluate how so many of these threads deteriorate? They often start with something like "Emotiva is a great company but i am disappointed that feature X is not working correctly or that situation Y could have been handled differently." This is quickly followed by those long time members that you love so much piling on and telling this person to effectively shut up, go away, or return the product if they don't like. Not surprisingly, the original poster gets defensive and the thread does degrade into an argument. Get your fanboys in check, learn to accept a little criticism and use it to make your company even better, and stop with the defensive posts and blaming of your customers for their problems. Oh, and the subtle jabs at AVSFORUM come across as hypocritical given that I constantly see your advertisements there. Others have suggested you get some professional PR guidance. I really think it could help. When the president of the company comes across as so defensive and thin-skinned in many of his posts, it reeks of amateurism. Hopefully this can be accepted in the spirit it was intended... constructive criticism from someone who generally likes Emo products. Not to worry, the only reason those threads were locked is because they degraded from being a civil discussion to something we really don't want on this forum. We started the forum as a fun place for people to come and exchange ideas. Lately there have been a few people who have changed the overall tone of the forum from a fun place to hang out to something we don't want it to be. They feel as though they can turn this forum into their own personal dumping ground which I won't allow. When a few new comers start driving off long time members, then we have a problem. Just yesterday I was speaking with several of our long time members who voiced their concerns, so it became appearant it was time to make a few changes. That's all. I certainly don't have an issue with people voicing their questions, ideas, etc. But like I have said before, lets keep it civil and respectful. Otherwise, I will be forced to jump in and I really don't want too. In regards to the UMC, most of us are AXPONA this weekend. But as soon as I get back, we will be updating everyone on the new code set. Have fun, voice your thoughts, but let's keep it respectful. |
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Post by DYohn on Mar 6, 2010 12:50:05 GMT -5
Admin, I really urge you to be more balanced in your approach. -clip- You do know that "Admin" is currently Lonnie Vaughn, the General manager and Chief Engineer of Emotiva, don't you? Oh, and I speak for only myself when I say there is nothing wrong with the AVSFORUM, but there is really something desperately wrong with many of the people who post there, or at least something really wrong with their attitudes. If you want to be instantly attacked for any opinion at all, that is the place to post. That attitude has been creeping in on this forum, and I would prefer that those threads get instantly locked than to see this place descend to the level that is apparently not just tolerated but encouraged at AVS. |
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Post by Wideawake on Mar 6, 2010 13:11:25 GMT -5
Oh, and I speak for only myself when I say there is nothing wrong with the AVSFORUM, but there is really something desperately wrong with many of the people who post there, or at least something really wrong with their attitudes. If you want to be instantly attacked for any opinion at all, that is the place to post. That attitude has been creeping in on this forum, and I would prefer that those threads get instantly locked than to see this place descend to the level that is apparently not just tolerated but encouraged at AVS. I second that. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 6, 2010 13:33:08 GMT -5
Oh, and I speak for only myself when I say there is nothing wrong with the AVSFORUM, but there is really something desperately wrong with many of the people who post there, or at least something really wrong with their attitudes. If you want to be instantly attacked for any opinion at all, that is the place to post. That attitude has been creeping in on this forum, and I would prefer that those threads get instantly locked than to see this place descend to the level that is apparently not just tolerated but encouraged at AVS. I second that. Same here. I joined the forum in Feb of 2009 and have to say back then and through the rest of the year, the tone was completely different than it is now. I have noticed the same thing as others, that a few persons have joined who have brought a lot of negativity to this place. There is a difference between constructive criticism and slamming people because you don't agree with them; and opinion versus your insisting that your opinions are the gospel. I consider myself an Emo fanboy but that is because I have purchased so many of their products and enjoy them. But I realize there are plenty of other excellent products made by companies who care about their customers and I enjoy reading what people have to say about them. Anyway, I just wanted to add that I'm feel the same as those people Lonnie mentioned who thought that a few have managed to change the tone of this place and not for the better. |
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Post by klinemj on Mar 6, 2010 15:01:33 GMT -5
I disagree. In the last 3-4 months, I think there's been entirely too much tolerance of people bashing other people and bashing equipment INSTEAD of people being helpful of others and of people just simply seeking solutions w/o accusing Emotiva of a grand conspiracy against mankind. (OK, so maybe most have not gone that far, but...hopefully you get my point.)
I am fine w/locking threads as soon as they cease to be positive in tone. And by that, I don't mean this forum has to be filled with "shiny happy people" posts. Rather, issues w/equipment can be discussed in a positive way...in a way that the posters are helping each other find solutions instead of just filling the pages with bashing and negativity. If enough threads get locked when the tone goes bad, then perhaps those posting the posts that lead to that will get bored and go away. (That could not happen soon enough for me.)
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rang
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Post by rang on Mar 6, 2010 15:12:50 GMT -5
I disagree. In the last 3-4 months, I think there's been entirely too much tolerance of people bashing other people and bashing equipment INSTEAD of people being helpful of others and of people just simply seeking solutions w/o accusing Emotiva of a grand conspiracy against mankind. (OK, so maybe most have not gone that far, but...hopefully you get my point.) I am fine w/locking threads as soon as they cease to be positive in tone. And by that, I don't mean this forum has to be filled with "shiny happy people" posts. Rather, issues w/equipment can be discussed in a positive way...in a way that the posters are helping each other find solutions instead of just filling the pages with bashing and negativity. If enough threads get locked when the tone goes bad, then perhaps those posting the posts that lead to that will get bored and go away. (That could not happen soon enough for me.) i agree 100% |
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Post by briank on Mar 6, 2010 15:26:08 GMT -5
Well said klinemj |
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Post by threxx on Mar 6, 2010 16:13:56 GMT -5
I think there's friction being generated on both ends up the spectrum...
From the fan boys... I don't think it's really an acceptable or constructive reply to tell somebody with problems that the answer to their problems is to just return the unit or else just live with the issues because they payed less than any other comparable product currently on the market. People are coming here to discuss their problems so that others (including other UMC owners, other potential owners, and Emo staff) will be aware of them and the problems can be fixed or sorted through. 'Return it' or 'Be glad you only paid $700-800 bucks' is not a valid reply for somebody that doesn't want to return it but obviously cares quite a bit about A/V. Let's be real, $7xx may be inexpensive for the specs, but it's still more money than 98% of the general public would ever consider spending.. most people won't buy a full home theater in a box system for that much $$ and they wouldn't put up with HDMI handshaking issues from that sort of system either. That aside, Emo products are supposed to compete directly with more expensive products... that's their #1 marketing/sales strategy is direct to consumer sales which mean more product for less money, not a lower quality product for less money. People expect this $7xx processor to compete with more expensive units... that's why they're here, and not over there.
Let's say you bought a Hyundai Genesis... a car that is marketed by Hyundai to compete with the Lexus GS, Benz E-class, Audi A6, Infiniti M, etc. It ranges from 33 to 43 grand in price despite features and quality that largely competes with the other cars mentioned which cost 12 to 20 grand more.
Let's say Hyundai offered a 30 day full return policy on the car and you loved everything about it except that once in a while when you came to a stop the engine would stall. You genuinely want to keep the car but you need the problem resolved within the return period because you don't want to be stuck with a car that could potentially never be fixed satisfactorily.
Now imagine you go to a Hyundai forum and bring the issue up because you want to see if anybody has had a similar issue, what the fix was, if Hyundai has a TSB released for it, etc. Now let's imagine that instead of constructive replies you get a bunch of Hyundai fanboys who have taken offense to you bringing 'negativity' to their forum, and they're telling you that if you don't think the periodic stalling is acceptable in a car that costs 30% less than the competition, then you should just return it because obviously it's not the car for you.
I'm only giving the example to hopefully show some of the Emo fans here an example that takes them out of the realm they're used to defending and into some other scenario where they're not defensive about the product being questioned.
Could some people with problems word them with less emotion, less finger pointing, less negativity, etc? Sure... that would probably help too if we kept things straight and to the point about the technical issues we're seeing. However, whether or not we're an Emo fanatic, we're all Audio/Video fanatics, so it's kind of hard not to bring emotion into what we post, especially when we're already stressed out from troubleshooting a device that was heralded as being so thoroughly tested and combed over for issues that it was delayed time and time again from its original release date of over a year ago.
So IMO it'd be best if everyone stopped replying with 'send it back' or 'what else are you going to buy $7xx?'. Not all of us want to send it back if we can fix our issues, and not all of us are opposed to spending $1200+ if it gets us a comparable product without those issues.
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Post by raylock on Mar 6, 2010 16:26:54 GMT -5
Good post threxx. Funny thing is that the two threads which were closed by Lonnie, were really very tame as threads around here go and actually contained some helpful discussion.
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