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Post by diskman on Mar 16, 2010 19:52:18 GMT -5
PLIIx (the X is important, PLII is different, PLIIz is the newest) applied to a 5.1 source shouldn't do much of anything to change the sound. If the source is 5.1 but you have a 7.1 setup, then it should affect the surrounds sound somewhat as it creates the additional back surround channels. For a stereo L/R or Lt/Rt source it should have the greatest change as it extracts center, surround (in stereo) and if a 7.1 system back surrounds (in stereo) and sub info (dependent on bass management setup) I have a 7.1 setup and use the PLIIx mode to fill my 2 back speakers for the lossless formats. Unfortunately it does seem to affect the sound. Minimally the volume is noticeably lowered from just running the lossless formats in 5.1. it's hard to say for sure that the quality is worse, because sometimes lower volume can be mistaken for lower quality. there's no way to be sure because switching back and forth changes the level. You probably have the same issue of others like me with 7.1 setup. Are you aware we have some audio drop out form back surround when we use PLIIx, Neo, DTS ES....Play 5.1 source in you player with PLIIx on your umc-1, press pause, press play and check your back surround, you probably lost the sound.....The only way you have to have 7.1 is select again PLIIx mode. For now I have a "PLIIX movie" button on my harmony 880 to press it each time I need to pause the movie.....I hope the next firmware will adress it  |
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Post by marius on Mar 16, 2010 19:58:53 GMT -5
How did you program that button? I don't think there's a discrete PLIIx movie code is there?
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ICBM99
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Post by ICBM99 on Mar 16, 2010 19:59:33 GMT -5
I've been playing with the M. CH PCM on the Casino Royale BD (testing for the other thread), and levels are adjustable when Multi PCM is set to Direct. Or at least it is on mine. Don't know about the EQ and bass management, not sure how to test that.
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Post by atczero on Mar 16, 2010 22:45:29 GMT -5
So my options are getting a PS3 slim (not going to happen as I like backward compatibility), getting a dedicated blu-ray player (don't want to spend another $150) , or a firmware fix, am I basically SOL? This might be a deal breaker for me with this unit. Thanks for a few responses...I started this thread and wondered why it silently fell off the first page. I posted these problems to the tracker thread as well as sent an email directly to Lonnie a week or so ago. I am anxiously awaiting a response from him and will share with you what I find out. Unfortunately, the latest thread from Lonnie on the newest firmware doesn't mention anything about this and he has made no inputs to this thread, unlike the "after having my UMC for a month" where things are more heated. This will most likely cause me to return mine too. |
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Post by bborzell on Mar 18, 2010 13:51:01 GMT -5
This can be mind numbing. Is there an issue that would preclude the UMC-1 from playing multichannel SACDs in all available channels with a digital hookup (as opposed to the 5 ch analog)?
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Post by rooster on Mar 19, 2010 22:02:52 GMT -5
So my options are getting a PS3 slim (not going to happen as I like backward compatibility), getting a dedicated blu-ray player (don't want to spend another $150) , or a firmware fix, am I basically SOL? This might be a deal breaker for me with this unit. Thanks for a few responses...I started this thread and wondered why it silently fell off the first page. I posted these problems to the tracker thread as well as sent an email directly to Lonnie a week or so ago. I am anxiously awaiting a response from him and will share with you what I find out. Unfortunately, the latest thread from Lonnie on the newest firmware doesn't mention anything about this and he has made no inputs to this thread, unlike the "after having my UMC for a month" where things are more heated. This will most likely cause me to return mine too. It is pretty baffling to me. I had brought this up when I got mine, but the thread didn't gain much traction. I listen to a lot of multichannel SACDs through hdmi, and my only mode options are direct and stereo, with direct bypassing the eq and stereo being 2 channel only. It doesn't make sense to me. |
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Post by mick16 on Mar 20, 2010 8:57:11 GMT -5
Just thought I 'd share some information as I sent an e-mail to Lonnie with respect to watching a blu-rays via PCM (I have a PS3 fat) and he responded that:
"At this time you do have other options where the most likely scenario is to use PLIIx which is an overlay of the MC-PCM code and does apply the EQs. In direct mode now EQs, are disabled, but bass management and delays are still active. We are looking into applying the EQs to the MC-PCM code to see what would be involved in it."
So it sounds like perhaps they'll be able to implement this change down the road.
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Post by diskman on Mar 20, 2010 12:55:03 GMT -5
Just thought I 'd share some information as I sent an e-mail to Lonnie with respect to watching a blu-rays via PCM (I have a PS3 fat) and he responded that: "At this time you do have other options where the most likely scenario is to use PLIIx which is an overlay of the MC-PCM code and does apply the EQs. In direct mode now EQs, are disabled, but bass management and delays are still active. We are looking into applying the EQs to the MC-PCM code to see what would be involved in it." So it sounds like perhaps they'll be able to implement this change down the road. The problem is the PLIIx have some issues: Problem with back surround, unstable sound and strange result...Probably need some improvement....For now I need to use Direct mode or the source mode but I need to stay in 5.1 and I could not matrix to 7.1  with these issues ... For me it's the biggest issue with my 7.1 setup. If you have 5.1 setup it will be perfect.... |
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Post by mick16 on Mar 20, 2010 13:25:26 GMT -5
I've got 5.1 surround at least for now (undecided on whether its worth it to sell my Outlaw 755 and move to a 7 channel amp) and I'm still not happy with the lack of EQ as both my PS3 fat and Toshiba HD-A3 transmit PCM.
As you indicated above, PLIIx has issues which makes it not a useable option. I'm seriously considering returning the UMC-1, my 5 Channel amp, and just picking up a Denon AVR-3808ci.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 20, 2010 13:38:09 GMT -5
I've got 5.1 surround at least for now (undecided on whether its worth it to sell my Outlaw 755 and move to a 7 channel amp) and I'm still not happy with the lack of EQ as both my PS3 fat and Toshiba HD-A3 transmit PCM. As you indicated above, PLIIx has issues which makes it not a useable option. I'm seriously considering returning the UMC-1, my 5 Channel amp, and just picking up a Denon AVR-3808ci. You might want to wiat until after the next software update to make your decision. |
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Post by roadrunner on Mar 20, 2010 15:13:05 GMT -5
I've got 5.1 surround at least for now (undecided on whether its worth it to sell my Outlaw 755 and move to a 7 channel amp) and I'm still not happy with the lack of EQ as both my PS3 fat and Toshiba HD-A3 transmit PCM. As you indicated above, PLIIx has issues which makes it not a useable option. I'm seriously considering returning the UMC-1, my 5 Channel amp, and just picking up a Denon AVR-3808ci. You might want to wiat until after the next software update to make your decision. Very good advice, dyohn. Between what Lonnie has posted in various threads and from additional information picked up during telephone conversations with Lonnie, most (if not all) of the issues being discussed in this thread will be fixed with the next FW upgrade. The problem with PLX on 7.1 systems is one of the fixes... as is the DTS bug in the cirrus chip. Lonnie said that all of the channel drops in volume or total loss of those channels has been fixed. When I spoke with Lonnie yesterday afternoon, he said that they have several UMC-1s running the latest FW and it looks like they have fixed all of the "confirmed" bugs that have been reported. Emotiva intends to continue testing this FW version for a few more days just to ensure all the fixes have not caused any new problems. They expect to release the upgrade late next week -- assuming no new issues arise. I think we will all find that the upcoming FW release will go a long way in correcting all of the irritating anomalies we are experiencing. Lonnie said that they are still checking into the options they have for handling MC PCM processing. You need to remember that SACD was performing flawlessly until cirrus disabled SACD within the chip as the UMC-1 started shipping. When I contacted cirrus to inquire why they had disable this feature I was told it was a Licensing issue with Sony. We can all thank Sony for loss of native DSD handling. Be patient, Emotiva is addressing all of your concerns. The UMC-1 will shortly be a stable high performance engine. ;D |
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Post by diskman on Mar 20, 2010 15:18:09 GMT -5
I've got 5.1 surround at least for now (undecided on whether its worth it to sell my Outlaw 755 and move to a 7 channel amp) and I'm still not happy with the lack of EQ as both my PS3 fat and Toshiba HD-A3 transmit PCM. As you indicated above, PLIIx has issues which makes it not a useable option. I'm seriously considering returning the UMC-1, my 5 Channel amp, and just picking up a Denon AVR-3808ci. Lonnie told me by mail it will be fix but I asked if it will be in the next one but I still waitin for his answer. |
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Post by diskman on Mar 20, 2010 15:24:58 GMT -5
 You might want to wiat until after the next software update to make your decision. Very good advice, dyohn. Between what Lonnie has posted in various threads and from additional information picked up during telephone conversations with Lonnie, most (if not all) of the issues being discussed in this thread will be fixed with the next FW upgrade. The problem with PLX on 7.1 systems is one of the fixes... as is the DTS bug in the cirrus chip. Lonnie said that all of the channel drops in volume or total loss of those channels has been fixed. When I spoke with Lonnie yesterday afternoon, he said that they have several UMC-1s running the latest FW and it looks like they have fixed all of the "confirmed" bugs that have been reported. Emotiva intends to continue testing this FW version for a few more days just to ensure all the fixes have not caused any new problems. They expect to release the upgrade late next week -- assuming no new issues arise. I think we will all find that the upcoming FW release will go a long way in correcting all of the irritating anomalies we are experiencing. Lonnie said that they are still checking into the options they have for handling MC PCM processing. You need to remember that SACD was performing flawlessly until cirrus disabled SACD within the chip as the UMC-1 started shipping. When I contacted cirrus to inquire why they had disable this feature I was told it was a Licensing issue with Sony. We can all thank Sony for loss of native DSD handling. Be patient, Emotiva is addressing all of your concerns. The UMC-1 will shortly be a stable high performance engine. ;D Thank's !!! It is the good news I wait for Probably emo team will give another status like this with more details of the last one......On this way if the PLIIx and DTS ES with 7.1 will be fix I will be verry happy men......I hope the PLIIx will sound better like the DD, DTS, DTSMA, DTHD etc......You make my day
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osogovo
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Post by osogovo on Mar 20, 2010 18:39:19 GMT -5
the only option available for 7.1LPCM is Direct ,you can't even use PlIIx.
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Post by diskman on Mar 20, 2010 22:04:19 GMT -5
Anyway in LPCM 7.1 no need of PLIIx because you already are in 7.1  The PLIIx is only when you want matrix 2.1, 5.1 to 7.1 or 2.1 to 5.1 |
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osogovo
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Post by osogovo on Mar 20, 2010 22:08:59 GMT -5
Anyway in LPCM 7.1 no need of PLIIx because you already are in 7.1 The PLIIx is only when you want matrix 2.1, 5.1 to 7.1 or 2.1 to 5.1 That is true,but this way you can't use the EQ and bass mgmt |
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Post by moodyman on Mar 21, 2010 9:24:59 GMT -5
Anyway in LPCM 7.1 no need of PLIIx because you already are in 7.1 The PLIIx is only when you want matrix 2.1, 5.1 to 7.1 or 2.1 to 5.1 That is true,but this way you can't use the EQ and bass mgmt exactly...why even have a UMC with this scenario?? The UMC is doing nothing but passing the signal through to your amp. |
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Post by roadrunner on Mar 21, 2010 13:09:13 GMT -5
That is true,but this way you can't use the EQ and bass mgmt exactly...why even have a UMC with this scenario?? The UMC is doing nothing but passing the signal through to your amp. Moodyman The UMC-1 definitely has a hole in how it currently performs with MC-PCM, but you are exaggerating the problem when you say the UMC-1 does "does nothing but passing the signal throught to your amp." Below is a segment of Lonnie's response to an E-mail message he sent to mick16: "At this time you do have other options where the most likely scenario is to use PLIIx which is an overlay of the MC-PCM code and does apply the EQs. In direct mode now EQs, are disabled, but bass management and delays are still active. We are looking into applying the EQs to the MC-PCM code to see what would be involved in it." The problem is no where near as bad as you posted. Your frustration is understandable, but as you can see from Lonnie's E-mail this is a short-lived problem; and in direct mode you currently do have bass management and active delays. Emotiva is also examining the options for adding EQ processing to the MC-PCM signal. Things are looking up. |
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Post by ksuvet on Mar 21, 2010 13:44:32 GMT -5
The problem is no where near as bad as you posted. Your frustration is understandable, but as you can see from Lonnie's E-mail this is a short-lived problem; and in direct mode you currently do have bass management and active delays. Emotiva is also examining the options for adding EQ processing to the MC-PCM signal. Things are looking up. Except the bass management isn't working right now, either. So it's back to a bad problem, right ? |
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Post by mick16 on Mar 21, 2010 15:01:26 GMT -5
If the bass management is working in MC-PCM, its not working correctly. I was watching 2012 on blu-ray this weekend and the bass levels were definitely off when watching in Direct mode via MC-PCM (PS3 fat via HDMI). In a couple of the scenes that I know have killer bass, bass levels were barely noticable. I also watched Bolt on Blu-Ray with the kids and experienced the same issue. I suppose I could hook it up via Optical Digital and settle for regular DD or DTS, but I didn't pay $720 for the unit to make that kind of compromise.
I'll give Emotiva the benefit of the doubt and wait until the next firmware update comes out to correct the problem, but if its still an issue, I'm going to have to return the unit as I simply can't risk going past the money back return period if this issue isn't corrected.
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with these issues ...
The PLIIx is only when you want matrix 2.1, 5.1 to 7.1 or 2.1 to 5.1