UMC 1, ease, convienence and high WAF

[tchaik]

okay,

i needed to ask this.

i am in france at the moment and have read every umc thread. being on one of the pre-order lists, i got my umc notice before i left and am scheduled to give my credit card info once i make it back to the states. i am well aware of the firmware issues et al and am confident that all will be resolved satisfactorily in due course. so...my concern is not sq or a properly functioning unit.

my concern is the ease of use, convienience and lack of frustrating problems for my wife, 4th daughter and newly to be adopted 15 year old son. i dont expect that they will be any less mechanically
challanged than they are with my denon avr 4800, but i would hate to find that the operation of the umc augmented the difficulties.

if those of you who went from an avr to the umc, or who have memories of your avr operation and now have a umc would provide your thoughts on this issue i would greatly appreciate it. i am hoping that the ease of use will result in a high WAF and therefore justify my financial decision to my wife.

any others who dont have a umc are welcome to chime in anyways,

btw.....................the french emotiva blogs tend to wax eloquent about the virtues of emo products too. my host and i went on line last night so i could show him my amps and future pre-pro. we then perused the french blogs with francois translating and they sound very much like the emo-forum. good to know we are not alone in our positive opinions about emo-stuff.


tchaik................................................

[RayoVac]

I had a UMC-1. I have since sold it. I can't speak for the stability once the next firmware is released (whenever it gets released)... but for me, in what I can describe as a pretty basic system (see my signature)... it was not Family Friendly. This along with job issues are why I sold mine. Even after the first firmware upgrade it required WAAAYYY to much fiddling to keep it working. Not something I wanted to leave for my wife to try and figure out if I take a commuting job.

Just my two cents. Did it sound good when it worked? Sure... did it match my other Emo stuff? Sure.... but... Audio dropouts, Mode/Level problems, Bass EQ NON-Functional and frankly yeah... the video SQ is good, but not a mind blower.

Also note... I have been an Emo Fanboy for a long time. I did not just wake up and decide I did not like the UMC-1. It took me some time to get there. Lets hope Emo can get the next firmware out TIMELY and that it fixes problems that many, many folks have complained about.

<soap box on... go to next post if you don't want to hear it>
I ABSOLUTELY HATE the whole "It does not exhibit that problem on our test units, EMO HQ etc." Lots of the folks that have voiced issues... many times found them as simply as I did. It worked with previous AVR, it does not work with the UMC-1, changing NOTHING else (same output settings, same HDMI connection). But yeah... probably a cross vendor incompatibility issue, HDMI issues etc.

I liken this to bad service at a restaurant where the waitress blames the kitchen or the hostess or others. ALL I WANT TO HEAR IS "I am sorry, I will fix the problem". Excuses and proclamation that "it works for us" does not promote the desired "good feeling" for a guy sitting with a $700 piece of audio gear that does not do what it should.
<soap box off>

Rayo

[DYohn]

Mar 18, 2010 13:00:44 GMT -5 tchaik said:

okay,

i needed to ask this.

i am in france at the moment and have read every umc thread. being on one of the pre-order lists, i got my umc notice before i left and am scheduled to give my credit card info once i make it back to the states. i am well aware of the firmware issues et al and am confident that all will be resolved satisfactorily in due course. so...my concern is not sq or a properly functioning unit.

my concern is the ease of use, convienience and lack of frustrating problems for my wife, 4th daughter and newly to be adopted 15 year old son. i dont expect that they will be any less mechanically
challanged than they are with my denon avr 4800, but i would hate to find that the operation of the umc augmented the difficulties.

if those of you who went from an avr to the umc, or who have memories of your avr operation and now have a umc would provide your thoughts on this issue i would greatly appreciate it. i am hoping that the ease of use will result in a high WAF and therefore justify my financial decision to my wife.

any others who dont have a umc are welcome to chime in anyways,


tchaik................................................

Based on your current needs I'd suggest waiting until the software is completely updated and stable. While my UMC-1 is pretty rock solid it is not 100% non-techie user-friendly yet, nor is it as easy to use as a typical AVR. If you're not the sort of early adopter who likes to tweak and who can handle performing software updates for the few glitches that remain, then wait. After it's 100% complete it will be a world-class product, IMO.

[regulator]

Mar 18, 2010 13:22:49 GMT -5 RayoVac said:

I had a UMC-1. I have since sold it. I can't speak for the stability once the next firmware is released (whenever it gets released)... but for me, in what I can describe as a pretty basic system (see my signature)... it was not Family Friendly. This along with job issues are why I sold mine. Even after the first firmware upgrade it required WAAAYYY to much fiddling to keep it working. Not something I wanted to leave for my wife to try and figure out if I take a commuting job.

Just my two cents. Did it sound good when it worked? Sure... did it match my other Emo stuff? Sure.... but... Audio dropouts, Mode/Level problems, Bass EQ NON-Functional and frankly yeah... the video SQ is good, but not a mind blower.

Also note... I have been an Emo Fanboy for a long time. I did not just wake up and decide I did not like the UMC-1. It took me some time to get there. Lets hope Emo can get the next firmware out TIMELY and that it fixes problems that many, many folks have complained about.

<soap box on... go to next post if you don't want to hear it>
I ABSOLUTELY HATE the whole "It does not exhibit that problem on our test units, EMO HQ etc." Lots of the folks that have voiced issues... many times found them as simply as I did. It worked with previous AVR, it does not work with the UMC-1, changing NOTHING else (same output settings, same HDMI connection). But yeah... probably a cross vendor incompatibility issue, HDMI issues etc.

I liken this to bad service at a restaurant where the waitress blames the kitchen or the hostess or others. ALL I WANT TO HEAR IS "I am sorry, I will fix the problem". Excuses and proclamation that "it works for us" does not promote the desired "good feeling" for a guy sitting with a $700 piece of audio gear that does not do what it should.
<soap box off>

Rayo

+1
My wife did not find the UMC easy to use. Of course most of it had to do with all the bugs in the unit.
Its very tweakable, so it takes time to get used to. My AVR was much easier to use and it worked the way it was suposed to.

Until they fix all the bugs your family may have some struggles and frustrations with it. There was a day my unit would not play sound, even after rebooting, changing inputs etc. Just weird things like that, and nobody could use it until I got home and I fiddled with it.
So for me, my AVR was easier to work with, just turn on and thats it. UMC was a little more involved. Good luck with your choice

[UT-Driven]

Mar 18, 2010 13:22:49 GMT -5 RayoVac said:

I had a UMC-1. I have since sold it. I can't speak for the stability once the next firmware is released (whenever it gets released)... but for me, in what I can describe as a pretty basic system (see my signature)... it was not Family Friendly. This along with job issues are why I sold mine. Even after the first firmware upgrade it required WAAAYYY to much fiddling to keep it working. Not something I wanted to leave for my wife to try and figure out if I take a commuting job.

Just my two cents. Did it sound good when it worked? Sure... did it match my other Emo stuff? Sure.... but... Audio dropouts, Mode/Level problems, Bass EQ NON-Functional and frankly yeah... the video SQ is good, but not a mind blower.

Also note... I have been an Emo Fanboy for a long time. I did not just wake up and decide I did not like the UMC-1. It took me some time to get there. Lets hope Emo can get the next firmware out TIMELY and that it fixes problems that many, many folks have complained about.

<soap box on... go to next post if you don't want to hear it>
I ABSOLUTELY HATE the whole "It does not exhibit that problem on our test units, EMO HQ etc." Lots of the folks that have voiced issues... many times found them as simply as I did. It worked with previous AVR, it does not work with the UMC-1, changing NOTHING else (same output settings, same HDMI connection). But yeah... probably a cross vendor incompatibility issue, HDMI issues etc.

I liken this to bad service at a restaurant where the waitress blames the kitchen or the hostess or others. ALL I WANT TO HEAR IS "I am sorry, I will fix the problem". Excuses and proclamation that "it works for us" does not promote the desired "good feeling" for a guy sitting with a $700 piece of audio gear that does not do what it should.
<soap box off>

Rayo

I have worked in manufacturing and with software development for a long time and the problem is, if they cannot duplicate it in their environment, then they won't be able to get down to the root of the problem.

It would be great if it could be like a restaurant where they can cook you another steak and you'd be good. I understand what you are saying, I have had the same type of responses when I have submitted problem reports in the past.

If multiple people are exhibiting a problem, it would seem to me that the problem could be duplicated by finding out what each person having the problem is doing step-by-step and what equipment they have and find the similarities.

Doug

[Mike Ronesia]

My understanding is most of the bugs will be fixed with this next update. I mess with my Denon all the time but my wife just uses the Harmony and everything turns on and she is happy. She doesn't care if the signal is 5 channel stereo or pure direct as long as she can hear it. I think if the drop out issues get resolved or don't affect you then most family members will be OK. Their not like us when it comes to this stuff.

[RayoVac]

My restaurant analogy was simply stated to show that when we have problems that WE can replicate... we hate reading that Emo Can't Duplicate the problem.. thus it must be us.

I too understand the complexities of what they have built. Excuses when a legitimate problem is found... does not make for a happy EmoFanyBoy. I just want them to say... "Gotcha... let us take a look and see what we can find". Instead, we have frequently been responded to with the statement that ours is a "unique" problem some how. Yes... many guys come on these boards and demonstrate that they to have run into the same issues.

My pure point... these boards would be a much happier place if two things were to happen:

Regular Status Updates on Known Problems and Potential Attention to Fix (firmware ETAs).

When a problem is revealed by multiple users... don't tell us "It does not do that in the lab". Tell us you will look into it... plain and simple. And then of course follow up. (Thus my analogy in food service... I don't want excuses, I just want the problem acknowledged and a commitment made to resolve.)

Rayo

[UT-Driven]

Mar 18, 2010 16:03:21 GMT -5 RayoVac said:

My restaurant analogy was simply stated to show that when we have problems that WE can replicate... we hate reading that Emo Can't Duplicate the problem.. thus it must be us.

I too understand the complexities of what they have built. Excuses when a legitimate problem is found... does not make for a happy EmoFanyBoy. I just want them to say... "Gotcha... let us take a look and see what we can find". Instead, we have frequently been responded to with the statement that ours is a "unique" problem some how. Yes... many guys come on these boards and demonstrate that they to have run into the same issues.

My pure point... these boards would be a much happier place if two things were to happen:

Regular Status Updates on Known Problems and Potential Attention to Fix (firmware ETAs).

When a problem is revealed by multiple users... don't tell us "It does not do that in the lab". Tell us you will look into it... plain and simple. And then of course follow up. (Thus my analogy in food service... I don't want excuses, I just want the problem acknowledged and a commitment made to resolve.)

Rayo

You have brought up some very good points Rayo.

Doug

[billmac]

This discussion brings up many interesting points. I feel the frustration as well as some issues I have with the UMC-1 are not being seen by other UMC-1 owners. I also feel for ease of use especially with other family members not as patient or familar with A/V equipment the UMC-1 in its present form is not the best choice IMO.

This brings up the fact that Beta testing done by real world users would have helped Emotiva find many of the issues with the UMC-1. I would hope that Emotiva would take this approach with the XMC-1 and with future prepros.

Bill

[BillBauman]

Mar 18, 2010 16:48:25 GMT -5 billmac said:

This brings up the fact that Beta testing done by real world users would have helped Emotiva find many of the issues with the UMC-1. I would hope that Emotiva would take this approach with the XMC-1 and with future prepros.

Bill

Bill, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I think that Emotiva has concerns, based on past (bad) experiences, that the beta testers will put out too much information about the problems being fixed along the way. Of course, in this case, that's happening anyways, they're just not officially called beta testers. I believe that with a proper, strictly-enforced NDA in place, there would still be a healthy pool of volunteers to purchase and test the equipment without worrying of the public repercussions.

My 2 cents in your pocket, now.

[billmac]

Mar 18, 2010 17:05:03 GMT -5 BillBauman said:

Bill, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I think that Emotiva has concerns, based on past (bad) experiences, that the beta testers will put out too much information about the problems being fixed along the way. Of course, in this case, that's happening anyways, they're just not officially called beta testers. I believe that with a proper, strictly-enforced NDA in place, there would still be a healthy pool of volunteers to purchase and test the equipment without worrying of the public repercussions.

My 2 cents in your pocket, now.

Bill,

You bring up some good points that concern Beta testing. The biggest I would think is finding people a company can trust to do the beta testing even when a NDA is in place. I do not have any experience with Beta testing but watched the process with the Oppo BDP-83. It seemed to be a successful process but when you are on the outside you do not hear all the facts. I had contacted Dann early in the UMC-1s development about being a Beta tester. Of course I wasn't chosen or was I ;D.

Bill

[Deleted]

Bill:

Let me be the first to say..."You weren't chosen".. That's not to say, you're not the "chosen" one....

[cgolf]

My 2 cents. Like many others here. The UMC sound was outstanding in 2 channel and there were some other very "nice" things that I liked. For me, the usability was just not user friendly for me or my wife.

I could work it but I didn't like doing what I had to do to make it work. I'm sure through some firmware updates and other changes, this will get easier. But I just didn't want to spend the time and effort everytime I wanted to listen to something. And my wife just wouldn't!! ;D

[moe]

Mar 18, 2010 13:22:49 GMT -5 RayoVac said:

I had a UMC-1. I have since sold it.

I liken this to bad service at a restaurant where the waitress blames the kitchen or the hostess or others. ALL I WANT TO HEAR IS "I am sorry, I will fix the problem". Excuses and proclamation that "it works for us" does not promote the desired "good feeling" for a guy sitting with a $700 piece of audio gear that does not do what it should.
<soap box off>

Rayo

I know a guy that I hate to go eat with,he thinks cause he spends a few bucks he's the king of the world,all must bow,he never fails to embarrass himself and me.

And no,don't buy it if you're looking for the simple operation that even a great,great grandma can handle.

[billmac]

Mar 18, 2010 17:31:53 GMT -5 neekos said:

Bill:

Let me be the first to say..."You weren't chosen".. That's not to say, you're not the "chosen" one....

neekos,

I am definitely not the chosen one either ;D.

Bill

[klinemj]

The WAF and KAF play big w/me. Whatever systems I have around the house have to be things that they can turn on and they work. My current Denon AVR is that way, and I could not replace it with something that didn't come on and work reliably. I don't expect my wife and kids to be able to do the "finess adjustments" and setup the stuff...but it 100% has to turn on and work. Period.

While I might be able to accept little bugs, they could not - and by default - I could not since I'd get constantly asked to come fix the thing. (I already get this if I forget to switch the USP-2 back to HT Bypass mode..."dad, the TV's not making any sound again...")

That said, I believe the UMC-1 will be to the point I need it soon. I really look forward to the next firmware update to see if it fixes the key usability issues.

On Beta testing, I'd love to beta test anything new from Emotiva. I'd gladly sign a non-disclosure agreement to do so. As one with 24 years experience in research on consumer products, I use them all the time (in fact, just today I talked with 30 people who were "beta testers" of a new product I am working on and all signed such agreements prior to the test).

So...Big Dan, Lonnie...sign me up to be an XMC-1 beta tester! (And, maybe slide an XPR-7 this way also...I'm sure it needs a good going over...)

[ammosenior]

I had a Yahama AVR before the UMC-1 and found the initial setup was a little difficult and I don't think the wife would want anything to do with that, but I've had it setup for a couple weeks now and the wife (who has trouble operating her IPod) uses it all the time. Of course I have everything setup with a Harmony remote which cuts down on the complexity considerably. While currently there are some audio dropouts and this is dependent on the equipment you connect into it, I really haven't had to shutdown and restart the UMC. The most I've had to do is switch the input to another source and back and it comes back on. The dropouts due to changing audio source type is usually barely noticable but again this is probably dependent on your equipment. Ultimately this is a decision you need to make and without knowing how it will react with your equipment it's hard to make a recommendation. Hopefully if nothing else the firmware upgrade will correct the audio dropout which is about 90% of the complaints I've read in this forum. Hopefully this helps.

[rskarvan]

Companies do make strategic business decisions to develop the product in the hands of the consumer. Consciously or not, this is the case so far with the UMC-1.

[RayoVac]

Mar 18, 2010 17:36:00 GMT -5 moe said:

Mar 18, 2010 13:22:49 GMT -5 RayoVac said:

I had a UMC-1. I have since sold it.

I liken this to bad service at a restaurant where the waitress blames the kitchen or the hostess or others. ALL I WANT TO HEAR IS "I am sorry, I will fix the problem". Excuses and proclamation that "it works for us" does not promote the desired "good feeling" for a guy sitting with a $700 piece of audio gear that does not do what it should.
<soap box off>

Rayo

I know a guy that I hate to go eat with,he thinks cause he spends a few bucks he's the king of the world,all must bow,he never fails to embarrass himself and me.

And no,don't buy it if you're looking for the simple operation that even a great,great grandma can handle.

You make me laugh! ;D

[NorthStar]

Mee too. ;D (In French; moe aussi.)