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Post by saginawjuggalo on Apr 8, 2010 17:20:54 GMT -5
Ok, I'm actually becoming REALLY concerned about this. Why is the UMC-1 acting so funny with any sort of power conditioner? It makes no sense to have to bypass something that's supposed to protect and improve our home theater equipment. No kidding, I'm wondering if the weird power up/down issue I have occationally is because its plugged into my APC H15.  One would think that the power conditioner would be more stable.  Hmm. That's interesting because I've had mine plugged into my APC-H15 (along with all of the components except the sub.. which is too far away). I've had zero problems with my UMC-1. OK, there was a time when I had accidentally powered on zone 2 and wondered why the UMC wouldn't power off... but that was it. The APC-H15 is supposed to provide a constant voltage but a power on spike when multiple components are turned on might be the cause. Have you tried plugging in some of the units (e.g. amps) into the delayed outlets? My UMC-1 plays fine with the APC H15 I have it plugged into. Sure the UMC-1 has bugs but it's not gonna come from a power conditioner. I don't have any power up issues. I sometimes have power down issues (I use the UMC-1 a lot) but I think my problem is a Zone 2 conflict issue. Sometimes the UMC-1 doesn't completely shut down. Instead it stays on, along with my amp with all buttons illuminated but DIMMED... all but the "E" power button. Signals can't be passed through it IIRC. The behavior is very similar to using Zone 2 minus the audio/video being passed. Using the main on/off button via remote turns it on, than it goes off... Same thing with the Zone 2 button. I'm pretty positive this happened once or twice when it wasn't plugged into the APC. ...........................  Hemster: I know what you're talking about with this spike... The power load from turning everything turn on at once. I still the problem above even with my LPA-1 plugged directly into the wall. The APC doesn't spike up anymore if that helps any? FYI: For those who plug their amps into the APC H15, try using the programmable delays to prevent this spike. I'm not sure if it will help, but it can't hurt any. |
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Post by coolhands on Apr 8, 2010 18:29:10 GMT -5
"Perhaps you could lend further insight into this? What sort of incompatibilities are you aware of from other manufacturers that cause this sort of problem? Is it a specific type of device, e.g. isolated to Pre/Pro's, or can it happen with anything? Are there specific power conditioning manufacturers, that in your expert experience, you have seen have greater incompatibilities than others?
I would really like to learn from your expert experience so that I do not have the same problems several other forum members are reporting. "
Since you asked kindly here is a simple example. Now we all assume the ground to your device is always clean and we do not bother to see if this is true. The only way to be certain is to use a multi-meter and check the voltage between Ground and Neutral on the wall AC. If it reads less than 3/10th of a volt then your ground is clean. This could change overnight depending on a power surge or conditioner taking a hit. After that hit your readings goes higher and causes your device to reboot randomly, faint lights on the display and also not limited to phantom behavior.
The only way to eliminate and isolate the device is to simply start with your AC outlet and measure the voltage between ground and neutral. I have seen it go as high as 1.4 volts on the reading and that is when you need your local electrician.
I sometimes get good readings from the AC outlet alone but get high readings with the surge protector or condition connected. From past experiences I have retired many surge protectors and conditioners that does not play nice in this respect.
I hope this simple example or explanation is enough to shed light on random issues before blaming device that is complaining
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rang
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Post by rang on Apr 8, 2010 19:08:02 GMT -5
I have the UMC-1 plugged into a Monster Power HDP 2500 with no issues at all....  |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 8, 2010 19:13:38 GMT -5
Since you asked kindly here is a simple example. Now we all assume the ground to your device is always clean and we do not bother to see if this is true. The only way to be certain is to use a multi-meter and check the voltage between Ground and Neutral on the wall AC. If it reads less than 3/10th of a volt then your ground is clean. This could change overnight depending on a power surge or conditioner taking a hit. After that hit your readings goes higher and causes your device to reboot randomly, faint lights on the display and also not limited to phantom behavior. The only way to eliminate and isolate the device is to simply start with your AC outlet and measure the voltage between ground and neutral. I have seen it go as high as 1.4 volts on the reading and that is when you need your local electrician. I sometimes get good readings from the AC outlet alone but get high readings with the surge protector or condition connected. From past experiences I have retired many surge protectors and conditioners that does not play nice in this respect. I hope this simple example or explanation is enough to shed light on random issues before blaming device that is complaining So, are you saying that many of the power conditioners and/or surge protectors you have tested have given worse results than just plugging straight into the wall? Also, if that is the case, can you recommend any brands that seem to do a good job regularly? It seems like a bad idea to plug expensive AV electronics directly into the wall without surge protectors, right? |
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venaka
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Post by venaka on Apr 8, 2010 19:50:57 GMT -5
 Since you asked kindly here is a simple example. Now we all assume the ground to your device is always clean and we do not bother to see if this is true. The only way to be certain is to use a multi-meter and check the voltage between Ground and Neutral on the wall AC. If it reads less than 3/10th of a volt then your ground is clean. This could change overnight depending on a power surge or conditioner taking a hit. After that hit your readings goes higher and causes your device to reboot randomly, faint lights on the display and also not limited to phantom behavior. The only way to eliminate and isolate the device is to simply start with your AC outlet and measure the voltage between ground and neutral. I have seen it go as high as 1.4 volts on the reading and that is when you need your local electrician. I sometimes get good readings from the AC outlet alone but get high readings with the surge protector or condition connected. From past experiences I have retired many surge protectors and conditioners that does not play nice in this respect. I hope this simple example or explanation is enough to shed light on random issues before blaming device that is complaining So, are you saying that many of the power conditioners and/or surge protectors you have tested have given worse results than just plugging straight into the wall? Also, if that is the case, can you recommend any brands that seem to do a good job regularly? It seems like a bad idea to plug expensive AV electronics directly into the wall without surge protectors, right? wow what did I start.. little me put a little history in what happened.. Before everything went south, I had my umc connected to a cheap monster 45 dollar surge protector since january.Everything was smooth. I just moved recently to the beach in hollywood , fl..THis apartment was built in the late 70's..I bet the electricity is not so well here to handle my umc/lg lcd/sub/wirelessmodem/comcastbox... so easy fix guys!!I ran it straight to an outlet!I still will not trade my umc for even a $1500 brand new pre/pro!
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Post by coolhands on Apr 8, 2010 19:52:33 GMT -5
So, are you saying that many of the power conditioners and/or surge protectors you have tested have given worse results than just plugging straight into the wall? Also, if that is the case, can you recommend any brands that seem to do a good job regularly? It seems like a bad idea to plug expensive AV electronics directly into the wall without surge protectors, right?
Again it brings us back to my original statement. Please do not put the wrong words down. You can do what ever you want. All I am saying is some equipment do not play nice with others because of some factors. I listed this issue as an example from my line of work and experiences.
There are several issues that may or may not be directly related to surge supressors or conditioners.
As much as I can say. I have not used any of these devices on my systems for the past 25years. You may call me lucky. If it is not luck then we need the insurance company to take over. LOL. Stay cool.
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Post by jdskycaster on Apr 8, 2010 20:04:41 GMT -5
Since you asked kindly here is a simple example. Now we all assume the ground to your device is always clean and we do not bother to see if this is true. The only way to be certain is to use a multi-meter and check the voltage between Ground and Neutral on the wall AC. If it reads less than 3/10th of a volt then your ground is clean. This could change overnight depending on a power surge or conditioner taking a hit. After that hit your readings goes higher and causes your device to reboot randomly, faint lights on the display and also not limited to phantom behavior. The only way to eliminate and isolate the device is to simply start with your AC outlet and measure the voltage between ground and neutral. I have seen it go as high as 1.4 volts on the reading and that is when you need your local electrician. I sometimes get good readings from the AC outlet alone but get high readings with the surge protector or condition connected. From past experiences I have retired many surge protectors and conditioners that does not play nice in this respect. I hope this simple example or explanation is enough to shed light on random issues before blaming device that is complaining First I have heard of this. You say 333mV is the threshold and I am assuming you mean Vac. If so the ground and neutral in my house is out of spec according to your number. I measured several outlets just for S&G and all measure 350 - 375mVac. One of my Belkin surge protectors plugged into the same outlet measures 550mVac on each of the 12 outlets. This is just one of the surge protectors I use in my office. I also measured between ground and neutral of my Belkin PureAV w/ battery backup in the HT and it measures 350mVac. The output of my Monster HTS 3500 MKII measures the same. Now I have never bothered to measure this before so I cannot comment if these levels at any of my outlets have changed since we built the home 10 years ago. All I can say is that I have 8 TV's, 5 AVR's, 9 computers (5 desktops/ 4 laptops), 3 Sat receivers (2 of them DVR's) 2 BR players, 2 XBOX 360's, 2 amplifiers, 3 CD players, a VCR, an LCD projector and of course 1 UMC-1. Everything except the UMC 1 and 2 of my newer flat panels has been in my house for at least 3 years. I have not had a single issue with a power supply or with a computer hang. I claim to be no expert on this issue but would assume that even the most basic power supplies can handle this level of leakage and their internal transformers would be completely unaffected by it. Hence, why none of my computers has even had a hiccup in the 10 years I have lived here. This includes a multiprocessor server I ran for the first 6 years that I lived here before replacing it with a desktop. What gives? JD |
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Post by tank45 on Apr 8, 2010 20:06:46 GMT -5
You seriously use no surge protection whatsoever? That would make me as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I live in a rural area and our electricity comes from a co-op, which, from my understanding, buys power from other sources. Don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing but I cannot say we have good service at all. We have outage hits frequently and once had a mini-tornado take down six poles and we were without power for 5 days. I was leery of plugging my XPA-5 and Rythmik straight into the wall - but I did, based on mfgr recommendations and the advice of those on this board.
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Post by RayoVac on Apr 8, 2010 20:22:47 GMT -5
Personally I don't think the UMC-1 should do this no matter what it is plugged into. It is defective, call Emo make them fix it or take the 30 day return option (which should STILL be good for the UMC-1 given the firmware circus) and send it back.
Geeesh I have never heard so many excuses pointing at incompatibilities with other hardware and NOW specialized power needs for a device with NO AMPS!!! C'mon guys... is it to much to ask to expect it to work in 99.9% of installations?
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Post by Dan Laufman on Apr 8, 2010 20:34:58 GMT -5
Hi,
Please call us and let us get the straightened out for you.
The power conditioner/filter should not be an issue.
If necessary, we'll get you a replacement ASAP.
Thanks,
Dan
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Post by billmac on Apr 8, 2010 20:39:45 GMT -5
Personally I don't think the UMC-1 should do this no matter what it is plugged into. It is defective, call Emo make them fix it or take the 30 day return option (which should STILL be good for the UMC-1 given the firmware circus) and send it back. Geeesh I have never heard so many excuses pointing at incompatibilities with other hardware and NOW specialized power needs for a device with NO AMPS!!! C'mon guys... is it to much to ask to expect it to work in 99.9% of installations? I agree it should not matter what it is plugged into unless the Power Conditioner is defective. I had the UMC-1 plugged into a PS Audio Duet and had no power issues at all. I think a question for those who have had power issues with the UMC-1 would be if they had issues with the previous AVR/prepro that was in their system. If they are using the same Power Conditioner and had no issues then it would point to an issue with the UMC-1 IMO. Bill |
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Post by coolhands on Apr 8, 2010 21:17:39 GMT -5
Hey guys, my little experiment got some of you thinking and now checking your voltages. Now I brought this up because I used it everyday at work. Again I work with equipment that are or maybe sensitive to voltages especially neutral to ground. I am not asking you to throw away your power surge and conditioners. I support these devices in the IT world and I find them to be useful and expensive. Hope we take my little LIGHT as "What if?" Again not limited to the UMC-1, but to other devices that may be giving you unexplained results. And even if you find these readings outrageous, do not replace your power protectors until you are sure it is the culprit. It has been an educative and facts finding forum so far. Hope we continue to discuss at this level in the future. Oh! for the person flexing his wealth of equipment, you are not alone.  There are other people here in this forum that are not ready to enter your "The wet T-shirt contest" at this time. |
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Post by jdskycaster on Apr 8, 2010 21:51:36 GMT -5
Hey guys, my little experiment got some of you thinking and now checking your voltages. Now I brought this up because I used it everyday at work. Again I work with equipment that are or maybe sensitive to voltages especially neutral to ground. I am not asking you to throw away your power surge and conditioners. I support these devices in the IT world and I find them to be useful and expensive. Hope we take my little LIGHT as "What if?" Again not limited to the UMC-1, but to other devices that may be giving you unexplained results. And even if you find these readings outrageous, do not replace your power protectors until you are sure it is the culprit. It has been an educative and facts finding forum so far. Hope we continue to discuss at this level in the future. Oh! for the person flexing his wealth of equipment, you are not alone. There are other people here in this forum that are not ready to enter your "The wet T-shirt contest" at this time. This character is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum. I am not sure even he understands what he writes. He has proven many times that he does not understand what others have posted. JD |
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Post by RayoVac on Apr 8, 2010 22:02:56 GMT -5
Hey guys, my little experiment got some of you thinking and now checking your voltages. Now I brought this up because I used it everyday at work. Again I work with equipment that are or maybe sensitive to voltages especially neutral to ground. I am not asking you to throw away your power surge and conditioners. I support these devices in the IT world and I find them to be useful and expensive. Hope we take my little LIGHT as "What if?" Again not limited to the UMC-1, but to other devices that may be giving you unexplained results. And even if you find these readings outrageous, do not replace your power protectors until you are sure it is the culprit. It has been an educative and facts finding forum so far. Hope we continue to discuss at this level in the future. Oh! for the person flexing his wealth of equipment, you are not alone. There are other people here in this forum that are not ready to enter your "The wet T-shirt contest" at this time. This character is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum. I am not sure even he understands what he writes. He has proven many times that he does not understand what others have posted. JD +1 This is the case where the Lounge would benefit from VBulletin or other Board Software that has an Ignore User feature. Sure I can just skim past his posts... but after a while its like a Train Wreck, I find myself unable to look away. Then later, I realize those are 5 minutes of my life I will NEVER get back. Thus an ignore option would be awesome! |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 8, 2010 22:09:48 GMT -5
Hi, Please call us and let us get the straightened out for you. The power conditioner/filter should not be an issue. If necessary, we'll get you a replacement ASAP. Thanks, Dan Thank you, sir, that's all I needed to hear. I'll look forward to my UMC-1 arriving. If I have any of these issues, I'll just give you guys a call. |
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Post by coolhands on Apr 8, 2010 22:46:40 GMT -5
"Now I have never bothered to measure this before so I cannot comment if these levels at any of my outlets have changed since we built the home 10 years ago. All I can say is that I have 8 TV's, 5 AVR's, 9 computers (5 desktops/ 4 laptops), 3 Sat receivers (2 of them DVR's) 2 BR players, 2 XBOX 360's, 2 amplifiers, 3 CD players, a VCR, an LCD projector and of course 1 UMC-1. Everything except the UMC 1 and 2 of my newer flat panels has been in my house for at least 3 years."
We are missing the Rolls and the yacht. Talking about conundrum.
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Post by jdskycaster on Apr 8, 2010 22:59:11 GMT -5
The Rolls Royce runs on premium unleaded, the yacht on diesel. I did not bother to list either because they are not plugged into outlets in my home  JD |
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Post by venaka on Apr 9, 2010 19:56:40 GMT -5
Hi, Please call us and let us get the straightened out for you. The power conditioner/filter should not be an issue. If necessary, we'll get you a replacement ASAP. Thanks, Dan Thank you sir, Problem just occured again. Will call Monday! |
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venaka
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Post by venaka on Apr 24, 2010 14:06:10 GMT -5
Hi, Please call us and let us get the straightened out for you. The power conditioner/filter should not be an issue. If necessary, we'll get you a replacement ASAP. Thanks, Dan Thank you sir, Problem just occured again. Will call Monday! Ok got umc back from emo support and still same problem.. Emo techs saying that I am probably not getting a constant 120 in my outlet, since they said they ran it all night with no problems. So, electrician just left my home and told me that im getting a constant 130 instead of 120 and that he suggested for me to get a transformer to keep it at 120. He said that the umc might not like the high 130?(umc does not want to turn on) I would think at 130 the umc will be on roids Anyways he freaking charged me 100 bucks for this great knowledge of his and wanted to know if i wanted a transforme for an additional costr..I told him that I had to come to the emo lounge before vomiting some more money on this nightmare.!! please help..im am lost |
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Post by coolhands on Apr 24, 2010 14:21:25 GMT -5
Thank you sir, Problem just occured again. Will call Monday! Ok got umc back from emo support and still same problem.. Emo techs saying that I am probably not getting a constant 120 in my outlet, since they said they ran it all night with no problems. So, electrician just left my home and told me that im getting a constant 130 instead of 120 and that he suggested for me to get a transformer to keep it at 120. He said that the umc might not like the high 130?(umc does not want to turn on) I would think at 130 the umc will be on roids Anyways he freaking charged me 100 bucks for this great knowledge of his and wanted to know if i wanted a transforme for an additional costr..I told him that I had to come to the emo lounge before vomiting some more money on this nightmare.!! please help..im am lost Well I think I pointed to the voltages at your house the last time you had this problem. The electrician should have fixed the problem for that $100. If every home in your area have to get a transformer to resolve some of their issues, then it is the fault of the electric company. You should not be getting 130. That is too much for most electronics. You may want to check with your local electric company and see if they are sending too much to your location. I understand that some electronic devices are designed to accept 120 to 240. |
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There are other people here in this forum that are not ready to enter your "The wet T-shirt contest" at this time. 
