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Post by algreen345 on Apr 13, 2010 22:12:57 GMT -5
I bought my UMC-1 after the first Firmware was already installed on it. Now that I am looking at the firmware upgrade process I am simply stunned that it could be so badly designed. Why Emotiva didn't include an ethernet port with an automatic firmware upgrade built into the unit - the way so many other manufacturers have done - is beyond me.
But OK, I bought it and I have to do it. Of course, I don't run and Microsoft on any of my machines, except in a Virtualbox virtualmachine.
Has anyone had any success using Virtualbox with this Byzantine process?
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 13, 2010 22:16:17 GMT -5
algreen345, dude, you're insane.  That said, it is unlikely to work. The USB driver that's in use is not native, it's an overlay driver that simplifies programming in Windows. It's very unlikely the USB device access from a VBox guest is going to be able to provide this sort of pass-through support. I have tried many different USB scenarios with VBox guests, and the best I have ever achieved is basic functionality. Access like formatting or firmware-based access has never worked. I've tested it against USB keys, drives, iPhone, etc. |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 13, 2010 22:18:25 GMT -5
All of that said... if Emotiva would give me access to the developers, or to the code they're using, I could probably figure out a Linux-based flash solution. The USB driver their using would not have to be implemented in the same way on Linux and with a little intestinal fortitude might actually become easier. I had considered that as a viable flash alternative because we could just build a LiveCD that could be put down on USB keys and run from there. Anyone with an x86-based processor would be able to boot a viable flash solution.
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Post by sbavnut on Apr 13, 2010 22:46:37 GMT -5
Bill - in your opinion, how difficult would it be to move to a "USB stick connected to the USB port of the UMC-1" upgrade?
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 13, 2010 22:50:57 GMT -5
Bill - in your opinion, how difficult would it be to move to a "USB stick connected to the USB port of the UMC-1" upgrade? Impossible. I'm 99% sure the UMC-1 does not have the proper USB controller type to run a USB device, it will always need to be slaved to a functioning system. Think of it like this, could you plug a USB key into a powered, external hard drive and copy data between them? No, because there's no controller, you just have two slave devices. The UMC-1 is solely a slave device. |
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Post by algreen345 on Apr 14, 2010 21:30:48 GMT -5
A LiveCD is a great idea. Not only would it make life easier for Linux users, it would also greatly simplify the upgrade process. Instead of downloading a loader, 3 images, and a huge PDF describing a very confusing process, users could just download an ISO file, burn it to CD, boot off it in any machine, and let the loader do it's stuff.
Emotiva, are you listening?
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Post by jaakan79 on Apr 14, 2010 23:55:01 GMT -5
Windows PE Image + that usbXpress driver + firmware loader I think is very doable but I'm not sure about the legal issues with that.
It would be nice if there was a loader for Linux but we can dream.
BTW: I'm planning to get a UMC or XMC to replace my Yamaha DSP-A1.
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Post by sbavnut on Apr 15, 2010 0:20:11 GMT -5
Bill - in your opinion, how difficult would it be to move to a "USB stick connected to the USB port of the UMC-1" upgrade? Impossible. I'm 99% sure the UMC-1 does not have the proper USB controller type to run a USB device, it will always need to be slaved to a functioning system. Think of it like this, could you plug a USB key into a powered, external hard drive and copy data between them? No, because there's no controller, you just have two slave devices. The UMC-1 is solely a slave device. I think we can guess (with 100% accuracy) that the XMC-1 specs will be changed to allow for USB stick updates... ;D (and guess with a 50+% accuracy that the XMC-1 will also have some front panel inputs - one USB port, one mic port, one L/R audio, one composite video and one HDMI) |
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Post by agehring on Apr 15, 2010 7:47:06 GMT -5
A LiveCD is a great idea. Yeah, I built one the last go around, and while it worked it was pretty convoluted too... The installer insists on being installed on Drive C:, LiveCD technology for windows uses drive X: |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 15, 2010 7:52:41 GMT -5
I think we can guess (with 100% accuracy) that the XMC-1 specs will be changed to allow for USB stick updates... ;D I actually wouldn't assume that at all. Of course, if they add any sort of media playback via USB storage capability, then this would be much more likely. If they don't, then I doubt they'll pursue a USB storage-based firmware upgrade process. |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 15, 2010 7:54:25 GMT -5
A LiveCD is a great idea. Yeah, I built one the last go around, and while it worked it was pretty convoluted too... The installer insists on being installed on Drive C:, LiveCD technology for windows uses drive X: I have the installer installed on D:. Licensing prevents any of us from putting out a Windows bootable pre-built installer (as mentioned earlier). I'm also not sure how easy it would be in WinPE, considering the lack of overall polish to the setup routine. |
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Post by agehring on Apr 15, 2010 8:02:19 GMT -5
[ I have the installer installed on D: You may have the binary for the installer on drive D:, but the installer installed files on the C: drive, and won't install those file anywhere else. So if "Windows" isn't in drive C: (or a Drive C: doesn't exist) it won't install. |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 15, 2010 8:12:32 GMT -5
[ I have the installer installed on D: You may have the binary for the installer on drive D:, but the installer installed files on the C: drive, and won't install those file anywhere else. So if "Windows" isn't in drive C: (or a Drive C: doesn't exist) it won't install. I think you're making some generally broad assumptions based on a failed attempt to install. I have no Windows directory on C:. You might consider that the installer merely requires a C: to exist at some point for temporary files. I could verify that by removing my C: and testing the install for you (if it's really that important). But I can confirm that I have never had a C:\Windows folder and that I used this laptop to upgrade both v5 and v6 on different UMC-1's.    |
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Post by agehring on Apr 15, 2010 8:25:38 GMT -5
I think you're making some generally broad assumptions based on a failed attempt to install. I'm not making any "assumptions". I built a Windows PE (XP) installer disk the last firmware update, that worked. And the Program (as distributed) by Emotiva, wanted some files located in very specific places, and would either fail to install or run if those files were not there. I suggest you build a PE disk, and "lend it to your friends"... |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 15, 2010 8:46:26 GMT -5
I think you're making some generally broad assumptions based on a failed attempt to install. I'm not making any "assumptions". I built a Windows PE (XP) installer disk the last firmware update, that worked. And the Program (as distributed) by Emotiva, wanted some files located in very specific places, and would either fail to install or run if those files were not there. I suggest you build a PE disk, and "lend it to your friends"... I'm sorry to hear you're having problems. I just installed the update program on a system with no C: drive, only a D:. |
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Post by agehring on Apr 15, 2010 8:49:15 GMT -5
I just installed the update program on a system with no C: drive, only a D:. :-) I'm not having problems... I can install it on Drive Q: or any drive for that matter, too. Get that to work under Windows PE, then come and tell me how easy it was. |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 15, 2010 9:19:26 GMT -5
So, if the issue is only under PE, have you looked into whether or not your PE environment variables may be set wrong? Did you use a PE builder that hard codes a lot of C: stuff? Obviously if the program works on Windows 'normal' without anything on C:, it's not the installation program that's hard-coded for C:, it's something in your PE build that is telling it to look for files in a place that they don't exist.
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That said, it is unlikely to work. The USB driver that's in use is not native, it's an overlay driver that simplifies programming in Windows. It's very unlikely the USB device access from a VBox guest is going to be able to provide this sort of pass-through support. I have tried many different USB scenarios with VBox guests, and the best I have ever achieved is basic functionality. Access like formatting or firmware-based access has never worked. I've tested it against USB keys, drives, iPhone, etc.