You are not alone

[dkjohn]

Hey guys I use to own the Cary C11a and thought you might find a few of your complaints are not EMO but CIRRUS read this thread and see if it sounds like a few problem in common. By the way the Cary is now $4000 was $3500.




The update went fine.

Speaker configuration:
- C11a found all my speakers

Speaker distance:
- Spot on!

Speaker crossover:
- Useless (way too high)
Coherence rather bad, even with identical speakers. Could be caused by asymmetric room (?)

Speaker Balance:
- Far off
A bit surprising, IMO. Especially side speakers way too hot. I am not sure if auto is using the preset values and master volume put in prior to initiating the Automode sequence...

Master Volume for Test Tone:
- Works well, but only via knob on unit - not via Remote. To be preset before test mode.

Master Volume for Balance:
- Works well, but only via knob on unit - not via Remote.

Max Volume in Advanced menu was not tested, however I have no reason to believe that this newly implemented feature is not working as it should.

Room EQ:
- Doubtful (not easy to verify).
A few persons on the AVS has commented similar experiences. When system compensates 80Hz with +5dB, testing with saturated values indicates that it is the treble area that is influenced Explainations are required (same comments about the Manual, features are listed but not explained).

Note that these are Cirrus features/issues - Not Cary!

Speaker Phase:
- C11a reports SW out of phase. Possible cause is delay in Sub Eq/Amp.


General:
- Manual test tone and dB meter is mandatory for speaker balance. My tests were done with Master Volume set to -15dB (Pre in the loop) and avg. level set to 75dBc.
- Lock-on delay and rice crispies as before.
- SL & SR popping sounds and hiss (side speakers are compensated with -14dB due to separate amp with no sensitivity adjustment). Popping problem sometimes worsen during volume adjustment and other times I barely touch the volume knob and the hiss is gone.
- Motorboating noise (ref. Barry Gordon) in my side speakers when no source media is present. Noise still present when C11a is in mute! If I powercycle the C11a everything works well. C11a trigger power for the side speaker amp. I need to troubleshoot and isolate this better. It is only the side speakers that are causing me headache.
- C11a often locks up during setup and does not repond to local commands (buttons) or from Remote. Sometimes I wait it out and sometimes a powercycle is needed.
- Test tone sometimes does not work, still if Input 4 (not used) is selected.
- In one instance, the volume for one speaker suddenly attenuated with 3dB even if no actions were done (during balance setup). Also confirmed in vfd.
- Does a third profile (neutral/bypass) exist? If Movie or Music profile are not invoked manually, sometimes the sound is very dull!

DVDO Edge and C11a does not work well together. Therefore, some problems may lay outside the C11a. Further bypass-tests will commence when back from my Easter holiday.

Movie settings (now better identified in the vfd) are automatically copied to Music settings (auto setup)
Sound quality and performance as before (satisfactory).
Only HDMI sources were tested.

Update last 48 hours:
- Lost audio signal from PS3 a couple of times. Sound returns instantly when HDMI1 button on C11a is toggled.
- I have sound in my SBL & SBT still if the vfd says PCM 5.1 and not 7.1. My SBR sends off distorted tick sound superimposed on audio. When applying PLIIx everything works as expected.

I am waiting for others to join in with their experience to either confirm my findings with 1.06 or confirm that my components simply do not match with the C11a prepro.

Post Note:
All kinds of strange things happening tonight.
Vfd says No signal, but I have sound in all my speakers.
Pushing HDMI1 resulted in a bump sound first time, but otherwise no changes.
Sound appears attenuated for given master volume indication (unconfirmed).
Subwoofer gave off some strange noise.
Forcing Listening Profile to Movie and the vfd says 'Movie' only. When I finally pressed PLIIx, the vfd shows the correct decoder.

To me it appears that the C11a decoding process was confused one way or another, but sound was still present.
Probably a failure mode that was not identified at Cary, however I think I have experienced this before on older versions in my setup.

Saturday:
High pitch sound (at reasonable low level) in SR only.
Some sounds are missing from the center speaker, still if center speaker gives off sound.
Doesn't help to mix down 5.1 to 2 channel, but if 2ch. track is selected on source, sound appear to be right, again.
Vfd indicates correct information during decoding.

Monday:
High pitched sound occurred in all speakers at given volume. No other sound audible. Vfd showed normal (expected) decoder info. Had to just switch off the unit.
Also the 5.1 vs. 7.1 issue previously reported repeats itself (vfd correctly indicates 5.1 but sound also appear in SBL & SBR with PLIIx = off).

I will replace my Edge (acting as a HDMI Repeater for the C11a) and see what happens then.
__________________
Cary Cinema 11a 08 - V1.05 HDMI & Audio onboard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Extreman; 04-12-10 at 05:25 PM..


Extreman
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Extreman
Visit Extreman's homepage!
Find More Posts by Extreman
Add Extreman to Your Contacts
View User's Ads
Quote this post in PM to Extreman

04-11-10, 10:29 AM #1450 | Link
barrygordon
AVS Special Member


Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Merritt Island FL 32952
Posts: 1,319 Greetings to all my Cary friends. Although

[sbavnut]

I haven't followed the Cary 11a thread lately, but I thought that most of the issues were taken care of already.

Is this still the "typical" experience with the 11a or is this an exception?

[threxx]

The Cirrus chip is part of the UMC, so finger pointing does nothing. I bought an Emo product, not a Cirrus product.

Pretty much every finished piece of electronic equipment today is sourced from a variety of 3rd parties.

So... it's interesting to know, yes, but it's not even a hint of an excuse for Emo. They chose the components, they tested it, they marketed it, they sold it, and they support it.

[dkjohn]

Apr 14, 2010 21:37:28 GMT -5 sbavnut said:

I haven't followed the Cary 11a thread lately, but I thought that most of the issues were taken care of already.

Is this still the "typical" experience with the 11a or is this an exception?

Still typical.

[moe]

And I appreciate it.

[dkjohn]

Apr 14, 2010 21:45:20 GMT -5 threxx said:

The Cirrus chip is part of the UMC, so finger pointing does nothing. I bought an Emo product, not a Cirrus product.

Pretty much every finished piece of electronic equipment today is sourced from a variety of 3rd parties.

So... it's interesting to know, yes, but it's not even a hint of an excuse for Emo. They chose the components, they tested it, they marketed it, they sold it, and they support it.

Maybe you should help them design there next product.

[oscartheclimber]

This raises an interesting point: does Emo write all their own code, or do they customize standard code written by Cirrus for the chip? Or perhaps Cirrus, or a third party, customize the software for clients like Emo.

[moodyman]

Apr 14, 2010 21:45:20 GMT -5 threxx said:

The Cirrus chip is part of the UMC, so finger pointing does nothing. I bought an Emo product, not a Cirrus product.

Pretty much every finished piece of electronic equipment today is sourced from a variety of 3rd parties.

So... it's interesting to know, yes, but it's not even a hint of an excuse for Emo. They chose the components, they tested it, they marketed it, they sold it, and they support it.

+1

[cgolf]

Apr 14, 2010 21:45:20 GMT -5 threxx said:

The Cirrus chip is part of the UMC, so finger pointing does nothing. I bought an Emo product, not a Cirrus product.

Pretty much every finished piece of electronic equipment today is sourced from a variety of 3rd parties.

So... it's interesting to know, yes, but it's not even a hint of an excuse for Emo. They chose the components, they tested it, they marketed it, they sold it, and they support it.

+1. This is just the way business runs good or bad. I'm a general contractor. If there is a problem, the owner doesn't care who is at fault, I'm at fault. It may be the sub or vendor or whoever, but ultimately, its me! I hired the sub, vendors, third parties... ;D

[canadianbacon]

Apr 15, 2010 5:41:52 GMT -5 cgolf said:

Apr 14, 2010 21:45:20 GMT -5 threxx said:

The Cirrus chip is part of the UMC, so finger pointing does nothing. I bought an Emo product, not a Cirrus product.

Pretty much every finished piece of electronic equipment today is sourced from a variety of 3rd parties.

So... it's interesting to know, yes, but it's not even a hint of an excuse for Emo. They chose the components, they tested it, they marketed it, they sold it, and they support it.

+1. This is just the way business runs good or bad. I'm a general contractor. If there is a problem, the owner doesn't care who is at fault, I'm at fault. It may be the sub or vendor or whoever, but ultimately, its me! I hired the sub, vendors, third parties... ;D

Agree completely. I'm a project manager. when things don't happen as expected, i'm to blame. whether it was ultimately my GC, the subs or the trucker delivering the pipe that f'd up the plan, I'm still the one that gets a strip torn off them when the client calls.

That said, it is also my job to find out what went wrong, what promises were broken, what white lies were told etc. and then remedy the problem.

It does sound to me to be a short coming or design flaw due to the cirrus chip being ahead of the curve and thus having problems with older legacy equipment. It still needs to play nice and in my mind this is something that Cary, EMO and (any others?) need to hold Cirrus accountable for.

Ultimately, we, the "Clients", shouldn't care. It's something that EMO has to fix. We can choose to be understanding and sympathetic to the situation (read Patient), or we can move on. That's the joys of free enterprise.

(I'm just going to move my soap box back into the garage for now...)

[Lonnie]

Apr 14, 2010 21:45:20 GMT -5 threxx said:

The Cirrus chip is part of the UMC, so finger pointing does nothing. I bought an Emo product, not a Cirrus product.

Pretty much every finished piece of electronic equipment today is sourced from a variety of 3rd parties.

So... it's interesting to know, yes, but it's not even a hint of an excuse for Emo. They chose the components, they tested it, they marketed it, they sold it, and they support it.

I'm not finger pointing or placing blame, I was just letting everyone know this is how it works and this is what it does and this is why it works the way it does. Every solution out there using a Cirrus decoder whether it be a single or dual chip solution will work the same way. For expample, the 7K Denon works exactly the same way as ours. No finger pointing, just stating fact. If this is not to your liking or will not suit your needs, I understand. Send it back and we will happily give you a refund.

[ratmice]

Apr 15, 2010 11:37:25 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

Apr 14, 2010 21:45:20 GMT -5 threxx said:

The Cirrus chip is part of the UMC, so finger pointing does nothing. I bought an Emo product, not a Cirrus product.

Pretty much every finished piece of electronic equipment today is sourced from a variety of 3rd parties.

So... it's interesting to know, yes, but it's not even a hint of an excuse for Emo. They chose the components, they tested it, they marketed it, they sold it, and they support it.

I'm not finger pointing or placing blame, I was just letting everyone know this is how it works and this is what it does and this is why it works the way it does. Every solution out there using a Cirrus decoder whether it be a single or dual chip solution will work the same way. For expample, the 7K Denon works exactly the same way as ours. No finger pointing, just stating fact. If this is not to your liking or will not suit your needs, I understand. Send it back and we will happily give you a refund.

Really? This is the only response to the myriad of problems being reported, "I'm taking my ball and going home"?

I was hoping for something more substantive.

[hikinokie]

I get the feeling there will be some refunds......

[jgeiger]

Apr 15, 2010 11:37:25 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

Send it back and we will happily give you a refund.

I don't want a refund. I want a working product.

[BillBauman]

Apr 15, 2010 12:33:17 GMT -5 jgeiger said:

Apr 15, 2010 11:37:25 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

Send it back and we will happily give you a refund.

I don't want a refund. I want a working product.

Tall order.

I want a good apple fritter in Philadelphia.

[Lonnie]

Apr 15, 2010 11:54:52 GMT -5 ratmice said:

Apr 15, 2010 11:37:25 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

I'm not finger pointing or placing blame, I was just letting everyone know this is how it works and this is what it does and this is why it works the way it does. Every solution out there using a Cirrus decoder whether it be a single or dual chip solution will work the same way. For expample, the 7K Denon works exactly the same way as ours. No finger pointing, just stating fact. If this is not to your liking or will not suit your needs, I understand. Send it back and we will happily give you a refund.

Really? This is the only response to the myriad of problems being reported, "I'm taking my ball and going home"?

I was hoping for something more substantive.

I personally would not have used the word myriad as there is only a hand full of people with issues (I checked yesterday and it is around 1% of the total number of UMCs out there). That being said, we are working with those individuals to resolve what issues they are having. So far we have been lucky and the people that I have spoken with have basically been user errors and or a mis-understanding of what is going on. The remaining issues people are talking about are being investigated, but at this time I don't have any information to give. As details come to light and we work through what are real we will let everyone know. It would not be in anyone's best interest for us to just jump in and start posting about issues when there aren't enough facts to properly relay to the public. So as of right now, we are working with those who are having issues and looking into what kind of issues are out there and as things progress we will let everyone know.

[monkumonku]

Apr 15, 2010 12:52:08 GMT -5 BillBauman said:

Apr 15, 2010 12:33:17 GMT -5 jgeiger said:

I don't want a refund. I want a working product.

Tall order.

I want a good apple fritter in Philadelphia.

And I would like an honest politician.

[markus]

Apr 15, 2010 12:55:08 GMT -5 Lonnie said:

That being said, we are working with those individuals to resolve what issues they are having.

You do? Haven't received any answer to my two emails and bug reports in the tracker form yet...

Best, Markus

[gkarracer]

I think the percentage is much higher than 1%. I have the DVR audio dropouts (using V5 firmware) that others have mentioned. Since it has already been reported, I haven't called Emotiva support about it. I didn't see the point in calling just to say "me too!". I am sure there are many others with similar issues who just haven't called in, but instead are just waiting for a firmware update to fix it.

I'm crossing my fingers hoping for a resolution.

[ICBM99]

I wasn't having the audio dropouts on dish prior to v6. I did have some occasionally when watching BDs, but it was never a very big deal. I haven't tried any BDs with v6 though. I did post in the tracker thread/spreadsheet. And it seems to me that in my situation, the UMC is having a hard time locking onto and maintaining a DD lock, because most of the time it happens is during a switch between DD 2.0 and DD 5.1 or when FF and the signal drops (which I understand), but upon resume play the UMC never picks up the signal again, unless I either pause the DVR or change UMC inputs.

Like I've posted elsewhere, my workaround for this is by having the Dish box send a PCM signal rather than a DD signal.