LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,864
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Post by LCSeminole on Apr 17, 2010 12:50:40 GMT -5
The civility in this thread has gone south from the beginning. Even after Big Dan has posted the same downward spiral has continued. Ironically the forum in a very trying time during this recent software upgrade has had a very positive trend, so lets continue that trend and steer this thread in a respectful, civil manner. With Dan Laufman's and Lonnie Vaughn's positive statements in the UMC-1 update thread there is a lot to discuss and a load of good stuff to look forward to.  |
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,952
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Post by hemster on Apr 17, 2010 13:56:41 GMT -5
Hi guys, The bigger point is that we should have had it right the first time. For this I must apologize. To those of you who have been kind enough to do the upgrade on your own, I thank you. For those owners, who for for whatever reason can't or don't want to deal with this, we will gladly do it for you and handle shipping costs both ways. Thank you, Big Dan With the above statement from Dan, those that are having trouble or are unwilling to take on the update can send it in for Emotiva to do it and they will not be out of pocket since Emo are picking up shipping both ways. Also, others (including myself) have had good luck in updating their units. That leaves the issues in v6.. Lonnie had stated that some are resolved and others are being addressed. In summary what we have is excellent communication from Emotiva, commitment to stand behind their products, as well as the desire to make customers happy. They will make the update process easier for the end users. IMHO, as a customer, I don't know that I can ask for more. Despite my expectations, indeed I have received far less from other vendors. Thank you Dan, Lonnie, Vince and the rest of the Emotiva gang. |
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 17, 2010 15:33:28 GMT -5
Hi guys, The bigger point is that we should have had it right the first time. For this I must apologize. To those of you who have been kind enough to do the upgrade on your own, I thank you. For those owners, who for for whatever reason can't or don't want to deal with this, we will gladly do it for you and handle shipping costs both ways. Thank you, Big Dan With the above statement from Dan, those that are having trouble or are unwilling to take on the update can send it in for Emotiva to do it and they will not be out of pocket since Emo are picking up shipping both ways. Also, others (including myself) have had good luck in updating their units. That leaves the issues in v6.. Lonnie had stated that some are resolved and others are being addressed. In summary what we have is excellent communication from Emotiva, commitment to stand behind their products, as well as the desire to make customers happy. They will make the update process easier for the end users. IMHO, as a customer, I don't know that I can ask for more. Despite my expectations, indeed I have received far less from other vendors. Thank you Dan, Lonnie, Vince and the rest of the Emotiva gang. +1 - yes, thank you Dan and Lonnie for standing up and taking ownership of all of this. I totally agree with Hemster's assessment! |
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cgolf
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 4,615
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Post by cgolf on Apr 17, 2010 15:55:01 GMT -5
+2 to the Emo owners and staff. I can only imagine what this is doing to their sanity. I originally bought a UMC and eventually sold it. It just wasn't right for me at this time. However, I own & have owned many other Emo products and will continue buying them. The emails, comments and apologies from Dan and Lonnie tell me a lot about what I already knew of the character and values of this company. Yes, this is a mess for everyone and with some effective problem solving and lessons learned work, they will learn, grow and change from it. I have no doubt that I will eventually buy another UMC or XMC because this is the type of company that I want to do business with. My company looks for companies that have the same values and ethics that we have and partners with them in construction. I like to do the same when possible. I wish Emotiva was in the construction business!! ;D On another note. I just bought a "brand new" B stock Integra that arrived yesterday. It won't come out of protection mode. It's going to the repair shop next week. Integra doesn't work on Saturday. No one has called me or emailed me to tell me they are sorry about my problem. I'm angry. What do I do? Wait until Monday......  |
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Post by darklight0tr on Apr 17, 2010 16:03:56 GMT -5
@cgolf - Ouch. That really sucks.
I really give credit to Dan and Lonnie for their recent statements. As a customer I feel that they really care about the issues we are experiencing and will do their best to fix them. But I can empathize with those that are contemplating returning their units, as I am one of them. But, out of respect for Emotiva (love my other products from them) I will wait before making my decision.
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Post by loopinfool on Apr 20, 2010 13:19:53 GMT -5
What does that have to do with anything? The UMC-1 has Ethernet and USB. Well, if you owned one or looked at the on-line photos of the back panel, you'd know that it does not have an ethernet port. - LoopinFool |
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Post by darien87 on Apr 20, 2010 15:55:23 GMT -5
I disagree because others have experienced this whole thing through others. If the update process was so easy why are so many people posting they are having problems with it. So saying it so easy a child could do it is insulting the intelligence of others who may not be as technologically savy as you, so please humble yourself. Oh, so now the entire UMC-1 experience is virtual? Come on now. Give us all a break. I can tell you first hand that the update process is a cakewalk. The problems you are 'virtually' experiencing are the computer OS, with the biggest being the 64bit windows not playing nice. If you are familiar with any Windows 64 bit OS, you'll agree that this is not the first time there has been a problem with USB connectivity. Yes, something Emo should consider probably since the majority have newer computers operating this way. The '7 pages' of FW installation is only to spell it out. The update is NOT a cakewalk. It's not that hard, but it's certainly not simple. I was using a laptop with Windows XP and it took me a few tries to get it loaded successfully. It certainly wasn't, "just click start and you're good." I'm not a software engineer or an IT guy, but I'm far from computer illiterate. Please don't make it sound like those of us that had issues are stupid. |
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Post by gocolts on Apr 20, 2010 16:03:25 GMT -5
The important part of this whole thing is Emotiva is being upfront about it, as opposed to throwing us a bunch of marketing BS about how they're "working really hard" and how it's "going to be something special". They're taking a direct approach (even mentioned a beta program!  with their customers as of late, and I believe that's the reason for the mostly positive attitude around the forums, firmware update mess and all. So for that, I say job well done. The typical Emotiva customer seems to be able to handle firmware issues and delays, as long as they receive a prompt, and direct response from those at Emotiva explaining things in a transparent manner, which they are receiving. I'm sure they wish they would have taken such an approach 6 months ago.... |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 20, 2010 17:13:36 GMT -5
algreen345 I agree that the update process could and should be much simpler (if the platform allows it). I do write software and my experience is that "what can go wrong WILL go wrong". So making everything simple for the user protects me from unnecessary support requests. Example: Why is the update installer a .rar? Wrapping it in a .zip would have simplified things. I do agree that the UMC-1 is not ready for prime time. All the problems popping up and the discussion going on should be part of a beta test and not go public. They made promises they could not keep. They lost credibility big time. I guess Dan now realizes that. What I don't agree with is the lack of constructive criticism. Now the situation is what it is and all we can do is to help Emotiva reproduce the bugs so they can be fixed. Yes, this is a beta test scenario and Emotiva should acknowledge and manage it that way. If you don't want to participate, then send the unit back and/or buy another product. Best, Markus Markus, great points, great post. I believe that shortly Emotiva will acknowledge that we are in a beta process and offer some sort of an opportunity for some or all to beta test the next code revision before claiming it to be final or perfect. |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Apr 20, 2010 17:20:01 GMT -5
I do own a UMC-1 and I will not update it using the current FW process. I consider a product shipped with software flaws, and no reasonable remediation procedure to be irresponsible. But that's just my opinion, having worked in the computer industry for 20 years. You do know that the Apple IIc is outdated right?  ;D |
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Post by darien87 on Apr 20, 2010 17:57:49 GMT -5
I do own a UMC-1 and I will not update it using the current FW process. I consider a product shipped with software flaws, and no reasonable remediation procedure to be irresponsible. But that's just my opinion, having worked in the computer industry for 20 years. You do know that the Apple IIc is outdated right? ;D How about my old IIgs from my college days? Hey, it was state of the art then. |
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Post by mlkmgr on Apr 20, 2010 18:19:27 GMT -5
i will only give credit to emo once the thing is finally fixed and people can make educated decisions as to whether or not the umc-1 is all it is cracked up to be. IMO, they deserve no gratitude until this is complete. the only reason for the turn around is because they had no alternative. they pointed fingers at end users' pc-smarts and end user rooms as faults prior. we were told to send it back if we didn't like it and go buy something else followed by more run around of it works here, so YOU must be the problem.
the way they are acting now was suggested by a forum member here and many people agreed. however that post has mysteriously disappeared and emo staff is taking credit as though they made this decision voluntarily to FINALLY take blame. respect and trust is earned, not given where i come from....
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Apr 20, 2010 19:06:51 GMT -5
Amen! ...To ALL. ...All the posts from all the threads.
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Post by kumayama on Apr 20, 2010 19:12:54 GMT -5
the way they are acting now was suggested by a forum member here and many people agreed. however that post has mysteriously disappeared .... I truly believe that who ever took down that post really didn't do either Emotiva or its customers any favor. |
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Post by jgeiger on Apr 21, 2010 8:26:02 GMT -5
How about my old IIgs from my college days? Hey, it was state of the art then. I still have mine... |
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Post by willfixit on Apr 21, 2010 8:31:21 GMT -5
How about my old IIgs from my college days? Hey, it was state of the art then. I still have mine... You would fear me to see what I can do with my VIC-20 or Timex/Sinclair... Well, maybe not |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Apr 21, 2010 10:06:23 GMT -5
I'm exactly a year younger than Bill Gates; everyone in college had computer time, they just didn't know it - so we asked people for their time, and played Star Trek on the mainframe at night.
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Post by jvenard on Apr 21, 2010 10:44:55 GMT -5
What does that have to do with anything? The UMC-1 has Ethernet and USB. The units were initially shipped with no FW update process even available, by either of these options. That's just not acceptable in todays world. And no, I Will hold off even the idea of purchasing a UMC-1 until a simple, foolproof method of update is available. Oh, and just wait until users update the UMC-1 to HDMI 1.4. Do you think that will not be problematic? Please, no more comments like "Do you own one" Weigle2 PS My DMR-1 may not have any where near the features like a UMC-1 does, but that's OK as it works 'flawlessly' at what it does do. Let's face facts. Upgrading firmware is like chaning oil in a car or many other trivial items, for some! Changing firmware is a very stressful task to those who are not familar with technology, just as changing oil is difficult to anyone who has never done it before. This upgrade was a detailed upgrade, not a simple one step process. And no, the UMC does not have an ethernet connection as you suggest. And even if it did, I am not sure that the firmware could have been done via the ethernet as it was 3 different processes. Bottom line I am not sure this could have been simplified due to the numerous upgrades. |
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Post by BillBauman on Apr 21, 2010 10:46:54 GMT -5
What does that have to do with anything? The UMC-1 has Ethernet and USB. The units were initially shipped with no FW update process even available, by either of these options. That's just not acceptable in todays world. And no, I Will hold off even the idea of purchasing a UMC-1 until a simple, foolproof method of update is available. Oh, and just wait until users update the UMC-1 to HDMI 1.4. Do you think that will not be problematic? Please, no more comments like "Do you own one" Weigle2 PS My DMR-1 may not have any where near the features like a UMC-1 does, but that's OK as it works 'flawlessly' at what it does do. Let's face facts. Upgrading firmware is like chaning oil in a car or many other trivial items, for some! Changing firmware is a very stressful task to those who are not familar with technology, just as changing oil is difficult to anyone who has never done it before. This upgrade was a detailed upgrade, not a simple one step process. And no, the UMC does not have an ethernet connection as you suggest. And even if it did, I am not sure that the firmware could have been done via the ethernet as it was 3 different processes. Bottom line I am not sure this could have been simplified due to the numerous upgrades. See my thread here: emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=10985. It basically explains why we are where we are. It could have been simplified, but like everything in this world, there's a cost. |
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 21, 2010 10:55:31 GMT -5
What does that have to do with anything? The UMC-1 has Ethernet and USB. The units were initially shipped with no FW update process even available, by either of these options. That's just not acceptable in todays world. And no, I Will hold off even the idea of purchasing a UMC-1 until a simple, foolproof method of update is available. Oh, and just wait until users update the UMC-1 to HDMI 1.4. Do you think that will not be problematic? Please, no more comments like "Do you own one" Weigle2 PS My DMR-1 may not have any where near the features like a UMC-1 does, but that's OK as it works 'flawlessly' at what it does do. Let's face facts. Upgrading firmware is like chaning oil in a car or many other trivial items, for some! Changing firmware is a very stressful task to those who are not familar with technology, just as changing oil is difficult to anyone who has never done it before. This upgrade was a detailed upgrade, not a simple one step process. And no, the UMC does not have an ethernet connection as you suggest. And even if it did, I am not sure that the firmware could have been done via the ethernet as it was 3 different processes. Bottom line I am not sure this could have been simplified due to the numerous upgrades. I don't see what difference an ethernet connection would have made. It substance that is the same as connecting a USB cable. The program runs on the computer and transfers the files into the UMC-1; ethernet would be no different in that respect that using the USB connection. What would have been simpler would be to have a self-executing program that ran inside of the UMC-1 when you inserted a USB stick with the program file on it. But that must not have been feasible. |
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with their customers as of late, and I believe that's the reason for the mostly positive attitude around the forums, firmware update mess and all. So for that, I say job well done. The typical Emotiva customer seems to be able to handle firmware issues and delays, as long as they receive a prompt, and direct response from those at Emotiva explaining things in a transparent manner, which they are receiving. 
;D
