ERC1... HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS

[ddan6815]

Before purchasing the ERC1, I was using a Marantz CD67 and a 6 disk sony 601es, experimenting one day, I pulled out a Marantz dp870 processor, ran the coaxial to my Cd678 and the optical to my sony es, nice improvement....but still on my head for a new cdp....After reading several reviews on the ERC1.....I pulled the trigger. still using my Yamaha c-50 preamp. I found the sound a little muffled on the Sony, and much better using the ERC1.....Still hanging around the Forum, I started reading reviews on the USP1.......again I pulled the trigger......hooked up my USP1 yesterday, played a few albums.....very nice......then a few cds, a little bright on the high end, but OK........then I decided to do a comparison with the Sony es still hooked up to my DP 870, and the ERC1 running straight to the USP1. I made a copy of best of Diana Krall, and switched between the two players, with the original inside the ERC1......As much as I hate to admit it, I think the Sony sounded smoother, even if not, there was not a noticeable enough difference in justifying me keeping it. I'm going to listen some more since I still have a couple weeks left on my 30 day return policy. I'm also going to hook my cd67 back up and run it to the processor also. I'm sure I'll be keeping the usp1, ......but seriously having second thought about the ERC1........have anyone else done any comparisons?

[Pauly]

Hey, if you don't like it... you don't like it. Don't beat yourself up over it, or else you'll drive yourself nuts. The ERC is loved by many, but there are some who just don't like it. I admit it too, it can sound a bit on the harsh side, but I feel that it really varies with the recordings. Some of my good recordings, like anything from Chesky records, or RR sound wonderful and a bit on the warm side actually. Some just sound like nails on the chalk board. I kept mine, because with the right recordings, it's one of the best players I've ever heard. I hate to have my "crappy" recordings sound so badly, but it's certainly worth it with the good ones. So, after you listen to it for a while, and if you still don't like it, don't hesitate to return it. You have to go with what sounds good in your system. Who knows, maybe your ears will get used to it, and you'll end up liking it better. Either way though, don't keep it just to keep it. I've done that with gear in the past, because it was supposed to be better than what I had at the time, so I went with what others would approve of, instead of what my ears liked.

[ddan6815]

Apr 17, 2010 23:40:20 GMT -5 Pauly said:

Hey, if you don't like it... you don't like it. Don't beat yourself up over it, or else you'll drive yourself nuts. The ERC is loved by many, but there are some who just don't like it. I admit it too, it can sound a bit on the harsh side, but I feel that it really varies with the recordings. Some of my good recordings, like anything from Chesky records, or RR sound wonderful and a bit on the warm side actually. Some just sound like nails on the chalk board. I kept mine, because with the right recordings, it's one of the best players I've ever heard. I hate to have my "crappy" recordings sound so badly, but it's certainly worth it with the good ones. So, after you listen to it for a while, and if you still don't like it, don't hesitate to return it. You have to go with what sounds good in your system. Who knows, maybe your ears will get used to it, and you'll end up liking it better. Either way though, don't keep it just to keep it. I've done that with gear in the past, because it was supposed to be better than what I had at the time, so I went with what others would approve of, instead of what my ears liked.

Thanks for your very honest response, I noticed I had about 42 views on this post, and only one response. and you hit the nail in the middle of the head, about keeping the unit because it suppose to be superior to what I already have, and trying to force myself to like it, because the majority likes it. I totally agree with you when you said on certain tracks, it just sound right. it does. and it also looks nice sitting next to the usp1, but is that enough? I also notice that when I do switch back and forth between the two units, there is a little something special about the ERC1, thats just not there with the other unit, and the tracks that it does do justice to such as Eric Clapton's "Unplugged" is very nice, just not that much difference. I know if I didn't have the other unit hooked up to a digital processor, there would be no comparison

[jhoak]

I went through the very same process with the ERC-1. I had been using a Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi as a CD player for a while. Based on all I had read I was expecting a HUGE improvement by installing the ERC-1. I can't say that I was disappointed as much as I was surprised by just how good the Pioneer really was.

There are a few discs in my collection (~400) that the ERC-1 stood out as better but not by much. I too think the ERC-1 can on some material be a little bit "edgy" and perhaps a bit bright. With my speakers (Klipsch La Scalas) already being on the bright side these recordings could get pretty fatiguing very quickly.

I have to agree on Clapton's Unplugged disc. It is one of my “reference” pieces.

In the end I decided to keep the Pioneer and sell the ERC-1. I had missed the return window by a few days so sending to back wasn't an option.

I am now going to wait until the XDA is released and probably keep the Pioneer as my CD transport.

I do have to say though that the ERC-1 is a VERY VERY nice player and sounds very good. Especially at its price point. If someone has been listening to a “low end” consumer CD player adding an ERC-1 to the system will bring a dramatic improvement. If you're already listening to pretty good equipment well... not so much.

[Mischief]

Over the years I have found that better equipment can reveal poor quality recordings for what they are. I have at least a hundred CD's that I can't listen to in my main system. They are fine in the car or other places in the house but they sound terrible on my main system.

Best of Dianne Krall is a pretty good recording but it sounds a little digital (My opinion) and a lower quality CD player will tend to mask that. The SACD version is much better but as with most things in this hobby, it is your money, your ears, and your taste... use the equipment that sounds best to you.

[ddan6815]

Apr 18, 2010 5:47:27 GMT -5 jhoak said:

I went through the very same process with the ERC-1. I had been using a Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi as a CD player for a while. Based on all I had read I was expecting a HUGE improvement by installing the ERC-1. I can't say that I was disappointed as much as I was surprised by just how good the Pioneer really was.

There are a few discs in my collection (~400) that the ERC-1 stood out as better but not by much. I too think the ERC-1 can on some material be a little bit "edgy" and perhaps a bit bright. With my speakers (Klipsch La Scalas) already being on the bright side these recordings could get pretty fatiguing very quickly.

I have to agree on Clapton's Unplugged disc. It is one of my “reference” pieces.

In the end I decided to keep the Pioneer and sell the ERC-1. I had missed the return window by a few days so sending to back wasn't an option.

I am now going to wait until the XDA is released and probably keep the Pioneer as my CD transport.

I do have to say though that the ERC-1 is a VERY VERY nice player and sounds very good. Especially at its price point. If someone has been listening to a “low end” consumer CD player adding an ERC-1 to the system will bring a dramatic improvement. If you're already listening to pretty good equipment well... not so much.

Do you at times wish you had kept the ERC1?

[tchaik]

dittos to all comments above.

crappy recordings sound crappy on the erc. it is not forgiving like some players and systems can be. but good recordings sound great on the erc.

go with your ears and use the equipment that gives the most enjoyment. for me that is the erc. keep in mind 'all audio is a compromise'. the only audio that sounds truly live is the live event.

tchaik...............

[LCSeminole]

I will also add that poorly mastered cd's sound average at best on my ERC-1. Now the HDCD's and remastered cd's I've been buying as of late are stunning at the very least, and some of these are newer re-mastered copies of old cd's I have and the differences are easily discernible.

[Mr. Ben]

This is Emotiva's forum, and so you'll find a reluctance for anyone to flat-out say that they don't like one of the products. I've heard the ERC-1 in two different setups, including one where I was able to directly compare the ERC-1 to several other players. I've come to the conclusion that the ERC-1 is not for me. Some people, including me, prefer the sound of vinyl over CD's, with the general feeling that vinyl offers a more full and warm sound compared to CD's, which can sound thin and brittle. Some high-end CD players are praised for their analog-like sound, and you'll find a lot of reviews in Stereophile, TAS, and other publications that say things such as "the least digital-sounding player I've ever heard", which is intended as a very good thing. The ERC-1 goes in the opposite direction. It's probably the least analog-like player I've heard, and it embraces the digital sound of CD's. So anyone looking for the sound of vinyl from a CD player should look elsewhere, and I'd expect the high-end reviewers who list a turntable in their "associated equipment" sections would say the same. For those who prefer the sound of CD's over vinyl (ignoring the surface noise issues), the ERC-1 is the player for you. It doesn't try to hide the digital-ness of the CD format, it embraces it.

[ddan6815]

Apr 17, 2010 20:27:54 GMT -5 ddan6815 said:

Before purchasing the ERC1, I was using a Marantz CD67 and a 6 disk Sony 601es, experimenting one day, I pulled out a Marantz dp870 processor, ran the coaxial to my Cd678 and the optical to my Sony es, nice improvement....but still on my head for a new cdp....After reading several reviews on the ERC1.....I pulled the trigger. still using my Yamaha c-50 preamp. I found the sound a little muffled on the Sony, and much better using the ERC1.....Still hanging around the Forum, I started reading reviews on the USP1.......again I pulled the trigger......hooked up my USP1 yesterday, played a few albums.....very nice......then a few cds, a little bright on the high end, but OK........then I decided to do a comparison with the Sony es still hooked up to my DP 870, and the ERC1 running straight to the USP1. I made a copy of best of Diana Krall, and switched between the two players, with the original inside the ERC1......As much as I hate to admit it, I think the Sony sounded smoother, even if not, there was not a noticeable enough difference in justifying me keeping it. I'm going to listen some more since I still have a couple weeks left on my 30 day return policy. I'm also going to hook my cd67 back up and run it to the processor also. I'm sure I'll be keeping the usp1, ......but seriously having second thought about the ERC1........have anyone else done any comparisons?

I only posted to find out if anyone else have experienced the same thing. Also trying to figure out if, I decided to keep the unit and maybe one day use it as a transport with a better dac, how much of a difference will it make?

[Mischief]

Looking at your equipment you are on the cusp of finding the point where a good player or DAC is going to start making some of your CD's sound worse than they may have previously. You will find some music will suddenly amaze you, like you have never heard it before, others will make you cringe after years of enjoying them.

I know a number of people who have downgraded equipment because they had favorites that they couldn't listen to anymore. There is nothing wrong with that, I often find myself wishing I could play a lot of my CD's in my main system.

I don't think a DAC is going to help you, it might even make the experience worse for you. That isn't to say the sound is worse, it is just less forgiving of poor quality recordings.

[ddan6815]

Apr 18, 2010 10:54:07 GMT -5 Mr. Ben said:

This is Emotiva's forum, and so you'll find a reluctance for anyone to flat-out say that they don't like one of the products. I've heard the ERC-1 in two different setups, including one where I was able to directly compare the ERC-1 to several other players. I've come to the conclusion that the ERC-1 is not for me. Some people, including me, prefer the sound of vinyl over CD's, with the general feeling that vinyl offers a more full and warm sound compared to CD's, which can sound thin and brittle. Some high-end CD players are praised for their analog-like sound, and you'll find a lot of reviews in Stereophile, TAS, and other publications that say things such as "the least digital-sounding player I've ever heard", which is intended as a very good thing. The ERC-1 goes in the opposite direction. It's probably the least analog-like player I've heard, and it embraces the digital sound of CD's. So anyone looking for the sound of vinyl from a CD player should look elsewhere, and I'd expect the high-end reviewers who list a turntable in their "associated equipment" sections would say the same. For those who prefer the sound of CD's over vinyl (ignoring the surface noise issues), the ERC-1 is the player for you. It doesn't try to hide the digital-ness of the CD format, it embraces it.

I personally prefer the sound of vinyl over cd, which may be the reason I dont find favor in this cd player. I had a chance to purchase MYRYAD MC100 in mint condition before purchasing the erc1, wish I had gone in that direction. but since I didn't, I'll probably stick with my marantz cd67 and Sony es and when I really wanna Do some critical listening, use my TT for now, maybe Even hook my Marantz 4head tape deck back up, but keep the USP1

[Mischief]

I think you figured it out. Vinyl has a warm, rich sound that you can't get from CD.

The USP-1 is amazing with vinyl, CD as well but it can really be revealing with the ERC-1 or other high quality CD player.

[Erwin.BE]

Apr 18, 2010 10:01:36 GMT -5 tchaik said:

dittos to all comments above.

crappy recordings sound crappy on the erc. it is not forgiving like some players and systems can be. but good recordings sound great on the erc.

.... the only audio that sounds truly live is the live event.

tchaik...............

True! The ERC-1 does not spray over the recording with sweet perfume. It's merciless. I can live with that, because the CD's that are good, sound fantastic! And those, you will play over and over.

We went to a Grace Jones gig this week (wife and I). It was great fun, she has a great band standing after her, she put on a super show. I think all the material came from 2 albums: "Nightclubbing" (from 1981) with all her old hits on it and her recent "Hurricane". I did not have the recent one, so I got it Friday. How is the sound compared to the gig? Better! The live show was really loud, big Funk with Jamaican rhythms, quite messy and bass heavy, especially "William's Blood". Playing it with my Njoetjoeb CD + AVR + B&W's sounded also very heavy. But the new album sounds perfect with the ERC-1+XPA-1+Jamo's. Bass is clean, tight and like with all good CD's, there's real 3D in the sound-stage.

[ddan6815]

Apr 18, 2010 11:52:24 GMT -5 Erwin.BE said:

Apr 18, 2010 10:01:36 GMT -5 tchaik said:

dittos to all comments above.

crappy recordings sound crappy on the erc. it is not forgiving like some players and systems can be. but good recordings sound great on the erc.

.... the only audio that sounds truly live is the live event.

tchaik...............

True! The ERC-1 does not spray over the recording with sweet perfume. It's merciless. I can live with that, because the Cd's that are good, sound fantastic! And those, you will play over and over.

We went to a Grace Jones gig this week (wife and I). It was great fun, she has a great band standing after her, she put on a super show. I think all the material came from 2 albums: "Nightclubbing" (from 1981) with all her old hits on it and her recent "Hurricane". I did not have the recent one, so I got it Friday. How is the sound compared to the gig? Better! The live show was really loud, big Funk with Jamaican rhythms, quite messy and bass heavy, especially "William's Blood". Playing it with my Njoetjoeb CD + AVR + B&W's sounded also very heavy. But the new album sounds perfect with the ERC-1+XPA-1+Jamo's. Bass is clean, tight and like with all good CD's, there's real 3D in the sound-stage.

So tell me, How many Cd's that we buy are actually recorded well enough that we don't need a cdp that sprays the smell of sweet perfume over them?.......with that said, what is your idea of a good player, is it the ERC1, or one that's forgiving

[RPA-1 man]

ddan6815,

It's ok to not keep the ERC-1 if you feel the different in sound quality is minimal when compared to what you already own. You may want to spend the money in a place where you feel you will get more benefit in the continuing quest to improve your system. You mention a new DAC. You may find that when you do get the DAC that the improvement may be minimal as well. This hobby is all about trail and error. You are not alone in this ongoing quest.

I will tell you that I've compared the ERC-1 to my Pioneer Elite dvd/sacd player, which retailed for $1200 when new. If there is a difference my ears can't hear it. Maybe it's my ears, my speakers or other factors that prevent me from hearing a difference. I don't know. I will say that the ERC-1 build quality blows away the Pioneer. No doubt in my mind about that.

In my case I kept the ERC-1 because I wanted a dedicated cdp with great sound, build quality and at a price I was willing to spend. The ERC-1 gives me all that I want. Plus it sounds as good as a $1200 Pioneer Elite. That says a lot for the ERC in my opinion.

[RPA-1 man]

Apr 18, 2010 12:18:31 GMT -5 ddan6815 said:

So tell me, How many Cd's that we buy are actually recorded well enough that we don't need a cdp that sprays the smell of sweet perfume over them?.......with that said, what is your idea of a good player, is it the ERC1, or one that's forgiving

What is a good cdp?

That is a matter of opinion and personal taste. Personally I want a cdp that gives me exactly what is on the disc. That includes all it's flaws in sound quality. I want to know that when I do play a great sounding cd that it will blow me away. For me the ERC fits this bill without breaking the bank.

[Mischief]

I like the ERC USP combination, I have heard better players, but not by much. I prefer a player that will make my good CD's shine.

As far as the good recordings out there, it is a crap-shoot. A lot of modern music is recorded with very little dynamic range, they just turn everything to max on the mixing board. It is designed to sound good on an MP3 player.

Jazz and classical have an edge, you can usually assume a good level of recording. There are a number of rock purists out like Tom Petty and Bob Dylan who spend a lot of time and effort on their mastering. There is a lot of good information for all genres on the web, it just takes some research.

There is a trend, just starting towards better mastering and recording, especially among the indie rock groups who have preferred a low tech, low quality sound. They are staring to see the benefits as vinyl makes a comeback. Vinyl is getting very popular with the younger generation.

[RPA-1 man]

I have read many wonderful reviews on the Marantz SA8003 but I really couldn't justify the $1000 price tag since I already had the Pioneer that plays sacd's. For me the ERC was the perfect solution.

[Mischief]

I like the Oppo BD 83SE for CD, it is as good as the ERC IMHO. I got the ERC first and so I use it and save the Oppo for SACD/DVD-A and Blu. I could easily live with the Oppo as my only transport though.