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Post by ddan6815 on Apr 18, 2010 13:15:40 GMT -5
ddan6815, It's ok to not keep the ERC-1 if you feel the different in sound quality is minimal when compared to what you already own. You may want to spend the money in a place where you feel you will get more benefit in the continuing quest to improve your system. You mention a new DAC. You may find that when you do get the DAC that the improvement may be minimal as well. This hobby is all about trail and error. You are not alone in this ongoing quest. I will tell you that I've compared the ERC-1 to my Pioneer Elite dvd/sacd player, which retailed for $1200 when new. If there is a difference my ears can't hear it. Maybe it's my ears, my speakers or other factors that prevent me from hearing a difference. I don't know. I will say that the ERC-1 build quality blows away the Pioneer. No doubt in my mind about that. In my case I kept the ERC-1 because I wanted a dedicated cdp with great sound, build quality and at a price I was willing to spend. The ERC-1 gives me all that I want. Plus it sounds as good as a $1200 Pioneer Elite. That says a lot for the ERC in my opinion. It would make the decision a lot easier for me if I was comparing it to a higher priced unit, but when comparing it to a lower price unit, using a separate processor, doesn't make it a easy one
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by NorthStar on Apr 18, 2010 15:04:59 GMT -5
I just don't know what to say!
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RPA-1 man
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Post by RPA-1 man on Apr 18, 2010 15:12:02 GMT -5
Why don't you post your location below your avatar and maybe someone near you will see this thread and invite you over for a showdown between their higher priced cdp and the ERC-1.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Apr 18, 2010 15:14:45 GMT -5
I just don't know what to say! Then why bother?
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Apr 18, 2010 23:39:00 GMT -5
Just because. ;D
* Seriously, I'm surprised by Dan's findings.
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jhoak
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by jhoak on Apr 19, 2010 3:40:07 GMT -5
Do you at times wish you had kept the ERC1? I think I'd have to say "not really". The Pioneer and the ERC-1 are so close to each other sound wise that I am happy with the Pioneer. I just spent the entire weekend playing various CDs and I didn't come across a single one where I thought that it would have sounded substancially better on the ERC-1. I'm sure that much of the decision to go the direction I did is because of my ears. I'm 52. I've been to a lot of concerts where I sat too close to the stage. I spent a number of years in the construction trade. As such I'm certain that my hearing has had a lot of damage done. In particular at higher frequencies. I think that's the reason I appreciate Klipsch heritage speakers as they tend to be a bit bright. Call it built in equalization to compensate for my hearing losses. All of that is to say that in MY system, in MY living room, and listening with MY ears these are my conclusions. It is entirely possible and very likely that you or anyone else would completely disagree with my decisions. It doesn't matter to me. At the end of the day the only person I have to please is ME. There may come a time when I purchase another ERC-1 for a different application than my main system. I have a friend with a USP-1, UPA-2, and ERC-1 system driving a pair of Klipsch Heresys along with a smallish (8" or 10") sub-woofer. The system is in his office. The room isn't very big maybe 11' X 14'. It sounds wonderful. If I ever find myself needing to outfit a second system the ERC-1 will very likely be the CDP of choice.
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Erwin.BE
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It's the room, stupid!
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Post by Erwin.BE on Apr 19, 2010 9:39:25 GMT -5
True! The ERC-1 does not spray over the recording with sweet perfume. It's merciless. I can live with that, because the Cd's that are good, sound fantastic! And those, you will play over and over. So tell me, How many Cd's that we buy are actually recorded well enough that we don't need a cdp that sprays the smell of sweet perfume over them?.......with that said, what is your idea of a good player, is it the ERC1, or one that's forgiving The ERC-1 exposes and enhances the differencies between recordings. You really can't tell which CD's will sparkle and which will sound messy and which will sound OK. I have great experiences with Charles Mingus, Miles Davis, The XX, Kraftwerk, Yazoo, Grace Jones... It's not so that I think the others sound bad, but once you heard brilliance, you will want everything to sound brillant and that does not happen. I have read reviews about $5K that wrote the same things. A "forgiving" CD player would be one that ads stuff and/or muffles sound, so this would be inferior to the ERC-1. I believe you will not find a better CD-player for less than 1000$. Unless Emotiva enhances the ERC-1. Read Lonnies report on the XDA-1 how this would be possible at a premium. When you get a new peace for your system, sometimes it makes another piece that were happy with sound horrible. I had that when I upgraded my 18-year old Philips amplifier and big speakers. The also 18-year old Philips CD-player suddenly became a problem. The highs were all wrong, every CD sounded harsh. Even the Project turntable sounded better and more dynamic (!) than the old CD player.
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Post by ddan6815 on Apr 20, 2010 0:11:11 GMT -5
Before purchasing the ERC1, I was using a Marantz CD67 and a 6 disk sony 601es, experimenting one day, I pulled out a Marantz dp870 processor, ran the coaxial to my Cd678 and the optical to my sony es, nice improvement....but still on my head for a new cdp....After reading several reviews on the ERC1.....I pulled the trigger. still using my Yamaha c-50 preamp. I found the sound a little muffled on the Sony, and much better using the ERC1.....Still hanging around the Forum, I started reading reviews on the USP1.......again I pulled the trigger......hooked up my USP1 yesterday, played a few albums.....very nice......then a few cds, a little bright on the high end, but OK........then I decided to do a comparison with the Sony es still hooked up to my DP 870, and the ERC1 running straight to the USP1. I made a copy of best of Diana Krall, and switched between the two players, with the original inside the ERC1......As much as I hate to admit it, I think the Sony sounded smoother, even if not, there was not a noticeable enough difference in justifying me keeping it. I'm going to listen some more since I still have a couple weeks left on my 30 day return policy. I'm also going to hook my cd67 back up and run it to the processor also. I'm sure I'll be keeping the usp1, ......but seriously having second thought about the ERC1........have anyone else done any comparisons? I'm very happy to say, by no means of having any influence from anyone in this forum, I'm no longer having second thoughts. However I do appreciate the advice and opinion from the forum members, which did aid in me taking certain factors into consideration. but the choice was totally based on what my ears experienced. I hooked up my Marantz CD67 to the processor, and instead of switching back and forth between the two players, I listened to the cd67 for about an hour without the interruption of the ERC1. when I was done, I was left craving the sound of the ERC1. That's when I realized what I had in my possession. I immediately boxed up the cd67, left the processor hooked up to my HD/DVR box, and my 6disk changer. and have been playing cd that I haven't seen less lone played in about 10 yrs from my collection. this unit have really smoothed itself out, or my ears have gotten use to the very different sound that I have now, and loving every minute of it. my Merlot bottle is about empty now, so I'm going to bed..........Thanks again guys...you know who you are
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Apr 20, 2010 10:04:25 GMT -5
when I was done, I was left craving the sound of the ERC1. That's when I realized what I had in my possession. I immediately boxed up the cd67, left the processor hooked up to my HD/DVR box, and my 6disk changer. and have been playing cd that I haven't seen less lone played in about 10 yrs from my collection. this unit have really smoothed itself out, or my ears have gotten use to the very different sound that I have now, and loving every minute of it. Yeah, it's like that. B&W also mentions this in the manuals of their speakers. Some people (and reviewers) seem to believe the gear needs to break in before it will sound good, but that's not the case. It's our hearing that needs to accustom to the sounds it didn't hear before. Downside is that your ears are now spoiled for ever! I don't visit too many Hifi fairs, but we do check out Home Deco and Furniture fairs (professionally and even more now we are building a house). Bose is always present. You can tell from a long distance when your approaching their stand... Time to put plugs in your ears, because when you are used to listening music with ALL the frequencies (and not just the lows and the highs), there's no turning back from that point. You will pass by their stand with a tormented look on your face, like some high brow audiophile ;D I know I do.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Apr 20, 2010 11:29:15 GMT -5
You really can't tell which CD's will sparkle and which will sound messy and which will sound OK. I can!
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Erwin.BE
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It's the room, stupid!
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Post by Erwin.BE on Apr 20, 2010 13:30:00 GMT -5
You really can't tell which CD's will sparkle and which will sound messy and which will sound OK. I can! I am listening
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Post by ddan6815 on Apr 20, 2010 15:57:30 GMT -5
I can! I am listening Maybe look at the record label?
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NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Apr 20, 2010 18:11:33 GMT -5
Some people can tell exactly what music is recorded on an LP without looking at the LP's cover; simply by looking at the grooves they can tell which symphony it is, the composer, and the orchestra. You guys knew that right? Now, for CDs it's even easier; anything from the 70s & 80s are mostly poor recordings. Now we get to the 90s where things started to improve, that's right, the record's labels are a good indicator, then the sound recording engineers and the studios where the music was recorded. Of course, having great musicians to start with helps too. But most Pop, Rock, Heavy Metal, Rap music are not well executed in the vast majority of cases, and the musicians are in a different sound's buble altogether, if you know what I mean. Better to simply discard those genres, unless they are recorded by the appropriate recording staff, as mentioned above. Older recordings from 10, 20, 30 years ago could be fine, only if they are remastered by the ditto staff of people with the right methods (proper equipment, proper musicians, singers, proper actions from the proper sound recording engineers, in the proper rooms...). That is a lot of 'proper', but that's the only way to prosper in this hobby. Now, the new century; that gets even better (for the quality and audiophile labels), but the genre of music is still affected (Rock, Pop, etc.) unless, you guess it, the record labels are the right ones, who paid attention to what they're doing, with sound care and without adding superficial things like electronic Dynamic Range, EQs, Reverbs, Compression, and all that sort of psychedelic pizzaz. ...The more you learn the trade the more you develop that knowledge of right choices. Plus with the internet you can do the research now much more than before before you make new software purchases. Also, you can sample the music before you buy it, by going in stores and listen through headphones. I started buying CDs extensively in 1987 (few years after the first CD player appears on the market). Before that I was heavily invested in Albums (still am). And 95% of all the CDs I was buying sound just like crap. Then 10 years later I was still buying even more CDs (at least $500 worth of them per week!). But I was getting about 30% of them sounding good, the rest was still crap. Now, 15 years later, I improved with a 50% average good soundig stuff (and still spending $500 a week on average just on CDs). Now starting about in year 2005 or so, my average is up to about 90% good stuff, because I don't buy any more crap (well, just 10%). Now from 2007 or so, my average is still up at 99% of good stuff; I'm much wiser now and I just know where to aim. Today, I'm at 100%. I will NEVER buy another CD that sounds bad, no way! I'm totally aligned now. So indeed I can tell what will sound good and what will sound bad. ...Just ask me before you buy. ...Or practice the art of knowing and making the right choices, just like I did. It works! Does it sound right to you, gentlepersons?
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Erwin.BE
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It's the room, stupid!
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Post by Erwin.BE on Apr 21, 2010 4:51:22 GMT -5
^ LOTR, you keep amazing me!
I don't care to much for most Blues (except for BB King, I love to hear him on the guitar) or Classical, though. I was 14 in 1980, so the alternative music of that era is and will remain the foundation of my taste. Joy Division, Iron Maiden, that kind of adolescent stuff. A bit later came Prince and he's still the favorite of my wife and myself (he's coming to Belgium 10th July, yeah!). Prince of course is essentially Funk and Funk is Jazz that you dance to. So, now I am also buying Charles Mingus, Herbie Hancock & Miles Davis... You know the 70CD Columbia box? What's your opinion about the SQ?
Still, some contemporary music can sound magical too. Know The XX? They are a young London band in electronic Neo-New Wave style. They sound OK on the FM radio, but boy do I like to listen to the actual CD! They say they are totally surprised about the success they harvest, that the album was made for themselves with limited resources, without much hope for big sales. If they can do it right, the bigger names can do it certainly if they want.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Apr 21, 2010 18:58:27 GMT -5
^ If you have access to a music store that carries those titles you like to purchase, and they allow you to listen to them; that's the best way. If not, check if they are remastered and by who and where (which studio). The music store where I used to buy (not operating anymore now), allowed customers to listen to any CDs before purchasing; if you did not like it, they simply rewrap it. When I was going at that store I spent few hours at a time listening to couple dozen CDs, and usually ending up buying haf to a dozen. And I was doing that twice or trice every week! Just in that one store alone, I spent close to $100,000 Canadian! One very important point here that I should mention; I did a lot of special orders, where CD titles were only avail through imports, and I paid big bucks for some titles (up to $100). These were from Switzerland, Netherlands, some New York Studios, hard to found audiophile labels, etc. I was reading high end audio recordings magasines (Gramophone, Hi-Fi +, and stuff like that to get the high end best CD and LP recordings on the planet). For me, the software (the music, the artists, the recording quality...) is WAY more important than the audio gear. I spent average 80% on software (at least if not more) and the rest on hardware. And it is the same principle with both; do your research first, and listen to it first if you can. When you find the right labels, the right products, the right people; simply stick with them. And don't go where you shouldn't...
* By the way, I must have a dozen CDs of Prince, plus a couple albums. I was into it in the 80s. Not anymore now, I'm just too old and I got more mellow with Classical, Jazz & Blues; Folk music too as my main attractions.
** And that box-set from Columbia about Jazz artists; if it was released not long ago, it probably has been remastered (Columbia/Legacy), and should be OK. Did you mean 70 CDs (number of total CDs in the box-set) or the Jazz music from the 70s?
Miles, Charles, Herbie & all those guys from that era were the true Jazz leaders, but their recordings are from anotrher era, so it's normal that it ain't to the new standards of today new equipment and tecknologies. But some of these are real gems, even from way back, but newly remastered, in particular with SACDs. For me SACD is a sure way to go, you can't go much wrong there, not like CDs. But some CD labels sound fantastic (ECM, DMP, Audioquest, Reference Recordings, Analog Productions Originals, Deutsche Grammophon, Clarity Recordings, and other labels like that).
--> Check on the internet, I'm sure you can find some audiophile sites for best music recordings. We got a great tool, let's use it to our best advantage. After all, it's all about great recording Music, right?
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Erwin.BE
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It's the room, stupid!
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Post by Erwin.BE on Apr 22, 2010 4:40:36 GMT -5
^^ The Miles Davis "Columbia Recordings" are indeed remasterd. It's 52 albums (some are 2CD, 70 CD's total) and 1 DVD. The original LP material is there but most of them have added material. I payed 165 € via Amazon.de, which is less than the original introduction price (300US$+, I think.) I like what I am hearing. Link for info: 100greatestjazzalbums.blogspot.com/2009/11/miles-davis-complete-columbia-album.htmlWay of topic here, but just want to shout that I managed 2 "Golden Circle" tickets for the Prince gig in Belgium. It must have sold out in minutes! I very much liked the Funkier (less poppy) approach in the last gig we attended (2002).
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Apr 22, 2010 11:36:42 GMT -5
^ Great price! ...And if you like what you're hearing, then ... * Watch out for me over there (Belgium), I might just pop out at that Prince's concert! ...I'll be whearing my usual LOTR's dark green cape and my breathing fire sword.
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Post by solidstate on Jun 4, 2010 11:56:14 GMT -5
ddan6815
Dude get rid of your crappy monster interconnects!!! You might be shocked at what they are doing to your system's sound!!!
Try some LC-1 coax or Outlaw PCA. They both use different cable topologies/geometry. The outlaw is a three conductor running biwired with the braid shield only connected to the source. Really the cable is for balanced audio using XLRs. The LC-1 is totally different in that it's a solid core coax.
Try each and see what you like as they are not expensive cables and would perform much better than your monster interconnects. Those sound horrible to my ear...
Don't believe the BS that cables make no difference either... yeah speaker level it's BS for the most part but line level it can and does make a difference. I think the monster's suck due to poor termination at the RCA though I'm not certain. The conductor might even be bi-metal crap for all I know... they just colour the sound in the way you describe that's affecting the ERC-1 in a negative way. The other player might actually be affected in a positive way from this interconnect colouring of the sound. This doesn't mean the Sony is a better player just that the crappy non transparent attenuation or what ever is going on with the Monster IC is helping the Sony. That's my opinion in a nutshell LOL because there is no way in a million years that Sony piece is even in the same universe as the ERC-1.
PS I started with LC-1 but moved to PCA
PSS I hope you have your 850 and 550 running in the right direction as this can make a big difference!
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Post by solidstate on Jun 4, 2010 12:19:59 GMT -5
^ Great price! ...And if you like what you're hearing, then ... * Watch out for me over there (Belgium), I might just pop out at that Prince's concert! ...I'll be whearing my usual LOTR's dark green cape and my breathing fire sword. You sure must miss A&B Sound downtown!!! (Or they must really miss you!) Those jerkoffs at Seanix drove her into the ground ehh!!! That store downtown was what... in business for 40 years? It's sad really...
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Post by solidstate on Jun 8, 2010 13:18:42 GMT -5
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