My Ultra Sub 12

[jraffety]

First off, I'm not experienced with high quality subwoofers. I offer the following as my experience so far. I hope to put the sub through a good workout and try moving it around the room before I'm done.

My living room HT is 24x15 and opens into the kitchen on end opposite the speakers. Its untreated for sound. We're trying to sell this house and I have a dedicated HT planned but this is what I have until we can make the move.

I've been really happy with my Emotiva speakers - ERT 8.3s L/R, 6.3 Center, ERD1s surround. And the UPA1s really make them sound incredible. So I decided to try the Ultra 12 - no brainer for $499.

Prior to purchasing these 5 Emo speakers I had Klipsch setup with their low end RPW-10 for sub duty. The ERTs made this Klipsch sound bad (boomy and cheap) - so ended up taking it out of the system and running ERTs as large. This worked well for everything but loud LFE effects - the UPA1s pulled the wall voltage down enough to trip the Marantz - but thats another story

So U12 arrived yesterday, packaging was exceptional. The sub is relatively small and light so easy to move around as I tried to find a home for it. I ended up with the along the front wall next to the left ERT, This is not in a corner as recommended by EMO, but best I could do until I get a longer cable.

I ran Audyssey, tweak the gain on the sub (ended up low gain about 9o'clock on the dial), and ran a final Audyssey sweep.

I haven't had time to try movies with LFE yet, but for music I can't tell the difference between letting the sub handle the low end (below 80hz) vs letting the ERTs do the work. This is a compliment in my book because the ERTs sound great on music without a sub.

I did run a measurement sweep with my radio shack SPL meter. Using default Audyssey setup, I set the volume to -10dB and ran test tone mp3s from Apple TV. First I set the ERTs to large and captured their response. Then I set the ERTs to small and the crossover to 180hz so the sub would pick up the output.

Measured using SPL meter from the shack and corrected using standard correction curves I found with a google search and plotted here. I apologize for the lack of a legend, The U12 response is blue with circles (higher SPL at 25hz), ERT is green with squares (peak at 50hz)



Again, -10db volume setting after running Audyssey and the sub is not in the corner. I make no claims to the accuracy or validity, but thought this might be interesting data for the forum.

I plan to put the sub in a corner but need a longer cable first, the only available corner is about 10feet behind the listening position (25feet from the receiver) so not sure how it will work out but plan to try it.

As I do more testing I'll let you know my impressions.

[CrazyBlue]

Thanks for the review.

I assume the SQ was very good, given what I've read about the 8.3's.

If I got two, they'd go exactly where you put yours, next to the speakers. But I have the front-right corner open too. I suppose that would better, especially for a single unit. That's what I'll have to do for now, as I can't add a second until later.

I'm glad someone finally brought some real-world data to the table.

Thanks again.

[roadrunner]

Nice review of the Ultra 12 sub. Your response curve supports what I have been hearing from the ERT-8.3 speakers. Strong response down to the low 30s and almost identical to the sub at 35 Hz. If the Ultra 12 is as musical as the pre-production model of the Ultra 10 subs Emotiva has a winner on their hands.

You might consider doing a cut and paste to place a copy of this review over in the Review Section of the Lounge. That is where most people look for reviews on Emotiva gear. ;D

[pitbullmike]

I wonna see some pics Cant wait to hear your feedback after you watched a movie.

[mattyd]

so the ERT's have better 15hz response than the sub?

[jraffety]

Apr 23, 2010 9:38:51 GMT -5 mattyd said:

so the ERT's have better 15hz response than the sub?

Yes. Given my room setup, default audyssey gains, and the given volume setting the ERTs had better output at 16hz.

However, keep in mind that this was a test of my setup at a volume level I would normally use for movies. Based on this question I went in and pushed the volume on the 16hz tone to get an upper limit for both.

Max for the U12 sub is a corrected 109.5 db at 16hz
Max for the ERT8.3s is a corrected 101.5 db at 16hz

The U12 limit was most I could get even with further increased volume. The ERT limit was most I was willing to drive the speakers - but they sounded clean at this level.

The sub is nice but hearing the ERTs keep up with it at such low frequencies is really amazing.

[monkumonku]

Apr 23, 2010 12:35:11 GMT -5 jraffety said:

Apr 23, 2010 9:38:51 GMT -5 mattyd said:

so the ERT's have better 15hz response than the sub?

Yes. Given my room setup, default audyssey gains, and the given volume setting the ERTs had better output at 16hz.

However, keep in mind that this was a test of my setup at a volume level I would normally use for movies. Based on this question I went in and pushed the volume on the 16hz tone to get an upper limit for both.

Max for the U12 sub is a corrected 109.5 db at 16hz
Max for the ERT8.3s is a corrected 101.5 db at 16hz

The U12 limit was most I could get even with further increased volume. The ERT limit was most I was willing to drive the speakers - but they sounded clean at this level.

The sub is nice but hearing the ERTs keep up with it at such low frequencies is really amazing.

So you were playing a 16 hz tone at that loud of a volume? Your house must have been shaking worse than the recent earthquakes that have hit! I'd be too nervous to turn it up that loud.

[Animo]

Thanks for the review but, why is this not in the reviews thread??

[mattyd]

Apr 23, 2010 13:17:33 GMT -5 Animo said:

Thanks for the review but, why is this not in the reviews thread??

He's a Rebel

[jraffety]

Apr 23, 2010 13:17:33 GMT -5 Animo said:

Thanks for the review but, why is this not in the reviews thread??

When I was writing I didn't think of it as a review, just stuck my thoughts on the sub in the sub section. Be happy for an admin to move it, or someone tell me how. If all that fails I can repost the original into over in the review section.

[ntrain42]

Apr 23, 2010 12:35:11 GMT -5 jraffety said:

Apr 23, 2010 9:38:51 GMT -5 mattyd said:

so the ERT's have better 15hz response than the sub?

Yes. Given my room setup, default audyssey gains, and the given volume setting the ERTs had better output at 16hz.

However, keep in mind that this was a test of my setup at a volume level I would normally use for movies. Based on this question I went in and pushed the volume on the 16hz tone to get an upper limit for both.

Max for the U12 sub is a corrected 109.5 db at 16hz
Max for the ERT8.3s is a corrected 101.5 db at 16hz

The U12 limit was most I could get even with further increased volume. The ERT limit was most I was willing to drive the speakers - but they sounded clean at this level.

The sub is nice but hearing the ERTs keep up with it at such low frequencies is really amazing.

Again, to make bass and get low frequency extension you need sd and xmax. 4 8" drivers vs. 1 single 12" driver is a no brainer. Those ERT's probably would be capable of more low bass output than the single 12" driver................

[jraffety]

Apr 23, 2010 17:55:50 GMT -5 ntrain42 said:

Apr 23, 2010 12:35:11 GMT -5 jraffety said:

Yes. Given my room setup, default audyssey gains, and the given volume setting the ERTs had better output at 16hz.

However, keep in mind that this was a test of my setup at a volume level I would normally use for movies. Based on this question I went in and pushed the volume on the 16hz tone to get an upper limit for both.

Max for the U12 sub is a corrected 109.5 db at 16hz
Max for the ERT8.3s is a corrected 101.5 db at 16hz

The U12 limit was most I could get even with further increased volume. The ERT limit was most I was willing to drive the speakers - but they sounded clean at this level.

The sub is nice but hearing the ERTs keep up with it at such low frequencies is really amazing.

Again, to make bass and get low frequency extension you need sd and xmax. 4 8" drivers vs. 1 single 12" driver is a no brainer. Those ERT's probably would be capable of more low bass output than the single 12" driver................

Thats what I was thinking, 4x8's with pair of UPA1s so plenty of power behind them. Seems reasonable they could produce the bass - I think I was getting close to xmax so didn't push them any harder. I'd really like to hear a pair of 15" subs in this room - putting that in my upgrade wish list for now.

[jraffety]

Received my 35ft BJC LC-1 subwoofer cable and I've moved the Ultra 12 to the back right corner of the room. Its about 11.5ft from the listening position, about the same distance as front speakers only sub is to the rear.

This position improved the subs ability to shake my seat - watched The Dark Knight on blu-ray and can feel the low end like you would expect with a good sub.

The SQ is very good for movie and music. I've played tracks comparing the sub to the ERTs and there is no loss of quality with the sub. The ERTs alone however don't provide the seat shaking thumps that the sub can now that its in the corner.

The corner placement hasn't improved the low frequency extension - the sub still rolls off in the mid 20s. IT will play into the teens and a good sub eq may give you more usable extension - my receiver doesn't have a sub EQ.

One problem I had was with the carpet spikes. The sub is so light it rocked back and forth on the carpet until the spikes were knocking against the concrete below. They are adjustable to level the unit, but I was not able to level it before I gave up and put the rubber feet on. It works fine now, but I could see the light weight of the sub allowing it to move around if care isn't taken with its placement.

I'm definitely keeping this unit. I may upgrade to bigger or multiple subs in the future and move this one to 2.1 duty, but for now it does a nice job rounding out my system for a great price.

A few pics

[roadrunner]

jraffety


From what you had written it sound like the Ultra 12 sub woofer is blending very well with the Emotiva ERT-8.3 speakers. Were you required to take conscious steps to get them to blend so well? ...or were you lucky that they blended so well right out of the box?

I knew that the Ultra 10 subs blended perfectly with the other Emotiva speakers from the listening sessions at Emofest; and I was wondering if the Ultra 12 subs also had that attribute. Are you considering adding an additional Ultra 12 to your system? Do you find that there is a gap in the Ultra 12's room coverage? If you do add another unit, let us know where you place it and what impact it has on your system.

[jraffety]

Apr 26, 2010 11:58:43 GMT -5 roadrunner said:

jraffety


From what you had written it sound like the Ultra 12 sub woofer is blending very well with the Emotiva ERT-8.3 speakers. Were you required to take conscious steps to get them to blend so well? ...or were you lucky that they blended so well right out of the box?

I knew that the Ultra 10 subs blended perfectly with the other Emotiva speakers from the listening sessions at Emofest; and I was wondering if the Ultra 12 subs also had that attribute. Are you considering adding an additional Ultra 12 to your system? Do you find that there is a gap in the Ultra 12's room coverage? If you do add another unit, let us know where you place it and what impact it has on your system.

I find that the 8.3s really don't need a sub for music, but right out of the box all I had to do was match the level and the Ultra 12 was transparent when crossed over at 80hz with the towers. This is with the sub sitting next to the tower. When I moved it to the rear corner I decided to run the towers full range - there were some directional cues from the sub at 80hz crossover that I didn't like for 2 channel music. I don't notice that for multichannel with the sub handling bass for the center and surrounds however.

I don't notice a gap in coverage now, but I do have the towers full range which helps smooth out the room.

My room could benefit from a second sub because its reasonably large (24x15) with over 1/3 of the back wall open to a large kitchen. However, I don't have plans to add another one right now. We are working to sell our house, and I have plans for a dedicated HT room in the new house. I'm not sure if I'll go with a second Ultra 12 at that time or opt for something else - perhaps the Emo reference subs will be available.

[2infinity]

Solid review. I'd be interested to know how the continued testing is going

[Stevens]

I'm surprised that Audyssey doesn't tame the ERTs' peak at 50 Hz. Or maybe it does, somewhat. It would be interesting, if you could be bothered, to run a measurement with Audyssey turned off. Based on your graph, I'd guess a crossover at 60-80 Hz would be called for, seeing that the sub runs much flatter below this range than do the ERTs (at least in your room).

[jraffety]

May 4, 2010 16:14:46 GMT -5 Stevens said:

I'm surprised that Audyssey doesn't tame the ERTs' peak at 50 Hz. Or maybe it does, somewhat. It would be interesting, if you could be bothered, to run a measurement with Audyssey turned off. Based on your graph, I'd guess a crossover at 60-80 Hz would be called for, seeing that the sub runs much flatter below this range do the ERTs (at least in your room).

With Audyssey off I see the 50hz peak of the ERTs go up another 2.5dB. I think the Audyssey implementation in the Marantz is kinda limited. In this setup with the sub in the front near the ERT, it sounded great xover at 80hz.

[exx]

Hi

Do you use a Y cable for the sub ? Or a single RCA one ?

[jraffety]

I'm using a single RCA