UMC-1 is a giant killer (885P A/B info, too)

[BillBauman]

Apr 26, 2010 13:02:15 GMT -5 bootman said:

Again, this is just my opinion.

I think it's great for everyone here to consider all opinions. At least in this case we're discussing why the UMC-1 sounds so good, as opposed to whether or not it does.

[NorthStar]

^ Because of its critical Analog output stages.

* Onkyo receivers and pre/pros sound mushy in comparison, I think.
...Pleasing mush, but still mush.

[Nemesis.ie]

Agreed, the clarity of the UMC-1 vs my Yamaha is very distinct. It also seems there is more dynamic range yet it's also less "bright".

[khonfused]

Nemesis.ie: Can you elaborate on that?
I would change from a Yamaha 1700 receiver to the Umc-1.
I am streaming from my ibook to the Airport Express and continue via toslink to the Yamaha.
What improvement in sound quality could I expect with this set up when using the Umc?

[Nemesis.ie]

I would not hesitate to switch in your case.

The sound is less muddy, crisper, the stage is definitely wider and sounds better positioned - or perhaps easier to pick out.

The Dolby volume appears to work (I am playing from my HTPC via HDMI), no longer am I blown out of the room when going from a movie to a music track.

It is a very similar thing to what I experienced going to 3 x UPA-1s up front only even more so. Perhaps it is partly due to less cross-talk in the UMC-1 versus the receiver.

I also suspect there will be less electricity consumption not having the receiver amps sitting there idle.

I presume you are already using external amps?

the only minus so far seems to be PLIIx expansion is not being applied to music - I can do this via software on the PC, but would prefer it done in the processor - I think this will be fixed in a firmware update.

I may write a mini-review at some point, I've only listened to it for a day so far.

[BillBauman]

Apr 27, 2010 6:27:00 GMT -5 Nemesis.ie said:

I would not hesitate to switch in your case.

The sound is less muddy, crisper, the stage is definitely wider and sounds better positioned - or perhaps easier to pick out.
I presume you are already using external amps?
(...more words...)
I may write a mini-review at some point, I've only listened to it for a day so far.

I generally agree completely. I also had a friendly, local lounge member volunteer to help with some blind A/B testing. And a friend of mine is in town that might play the game, too. That should help clear up any uncertainty, but I don't think it's going to take more than 10 or 15 minutes to demonstrate it's an easily discernible difference.

[jvenard]

I have to laugh about some of the comments made regarding the UMC-1.
So much of listening to a product has to do with what you want to hear and what you want to hear.

My back ground. 53 years old. Started selling audio at age 17. Started selling High End Audio before I was 20. I have owned everything from Dynaco Pat 5, APT Hollman, Phase Linear, Linn and as of late Lexicon.

1. There is no reason for anyone to be making comments around this product until it is ready for prime time.

2. If Emotiva would not have extended my RMA privliedges, I would have this puppy in the mail and back to Tennesse

3. I am happy with the fact that the UMC-1 seems to be quiet and I do not have any issues with any noise.

I would upgrade my Lexicon MC12 to an MC12HD, however, Lexicon is WAY behind the curve on what they are offering for an HD solution.

I hope that Emotiva can get this thing figured out and make a nice moderatly priced pre/pro, but I don't have any expectations to ever call it a Giant Killer, but a great entry level product.

[clarkdb17]

I have become fairly skeptical about the UMC-1. So far there have been just too many bugs than I want to deal with. Forgive me if this post is random...

I had kinda given up on the UMC-1 in February and started looking elsewhere. My parameters for a new pre-pro/reciever (I have a LPA-1) were:

Burr-Brown Processors
Pre-outs of course
anything but Furoudja video processing (reon, ABT)
Audyssey room correction
new HD format support
no HDMI issues

The Reon and ABT video processing gets pricey and I'm not wanting to spend a whole lot (over $1000) right now so video is probably the least of my worries.

Can anyone comment on the Emo-Q and the DACs. I'm not even sure what DACs are in the unit.

Units I've considered are the Denon 4310ci, Onkyo 885, 886 or Integra 9.8 or 9.9 or as a cheaper option the Onkyo 707

Any advice would be helpful. HDMI and Digital audio processing are my biggest priorities.

Thanks!

[canadianbacon]

I'll add my name to the list of satisified (understatement) customers. Coming from an older Onkyo 703, and knowing that to put THAT next to an 885 or 886 would be silly when comparing the relative abilities of THOSE 2 or 3 items, I can say, with no reservation that bill has managed to sum up what I was thinking too.

The music seems far better defined, crisper, cleaner and just all 'round better. As far as 5.1 for TV, the biggest thing I've noticed is that the channels seem better separated. By that I mean that audio intended for far right front, crossing to far left front or front to back etc, seems cleaner and much better defined. I don't know if there is something I didn't set up correctly with the 703 but it is clearly better defined with the UMC now.

Wife and I are going to have to plan a serious movie night, see how the HD Audio codecs sound...

I should add a couple caveats.
1) I'm using V5 Firmware still. With my motorola HDPVR and PS3, I've had little to no audio problems. I'll update the FW/SW when the all-clear sounds to the masses. As it is current "Not Broke" I ain't gonna try and "fix it".

2) I'm not what might be defined as a Critical Listener, or an Audiophile. I'm definately new to this level of performance. The price of the UMC is what got me here though.

3) love techno-stuff... this is definately some of that!

From my limited level of experience I have to say that I'm continuously surprised with this thing. Every time my wife or myself think, can we change "this" or adjust "that" to make "whatever" better... there is usually an adjustment that CAN be made. Doesn't seem like, notwithstanding the known issues, there is a detail that this machine can't try to correct or compensate for.

Very Impressed, so-far, even for my "Average" ears (and eyes).

[Deleted]

Bill

PACE: That is an excellent explanation.
I auditioned for a position @ one of Dallas' A/V boutiques a few years ago. The manager took me into the sound room that had a pair of B&W Nautilus power by Classe- 8 monos, pre/pro & CD. Needless to say, it blew me away, but there was something different in the sound that I could never figure out... PACE. Listening to vocals of CSN&Y, Eagles & KD Lang was as though I was there in studio.
If I can send $700 on a pre/pro for that "something different", I'm sold. I can live without HDMI.
A fellow Escient user told me he had SC885 & Krell pre/pro's but preferred the UMC-1, I thought he was blowing smoke.

[moodyman]

Apr 27, 2010 10:06:06 GMT -5 jvenard said:

I have to laugh about some of the comments made regarding the UMC-1.
So much of listening to a product has to do with what you want to hear and what you want to hear.

My back ground. 53 years old. Started selling audio at age 17. Started selling High End Audio before I was 20. I have owned everything from Dynaco Pat 5, APT Hollman, Phase Linear, Linn and as of late Lexicon.

1. There is no reason for anyone to be making comments around this product until it is ready for prime time.

2. If Emotiva would not have extended my RMA privliedges, I would have this puppy in the mail and back to Tennesse

3. I am happy with the fact that the UMC-1 seems to be quiet and I do not have any issues with any noise.

I would upgrade my Lexicon MC12 to an MC12HD, however, Lexicon is WAY behind the curve on what they are offering for an HD solution.

I hope that Emotiva can get this thing figured out and make a nice moderatly priced pre/pro, but I don't have any expectations to ever call it a Giant Killer, but a great entry level product.

Thank you. I was gonna refrain from commenting in this thread even though I thought it was ridiculous to call the UMC-1 a "Giant Killer" at this point.

When I had the UMC for 2 weeks back in Feb I compared it directly to my Pioneer Elite receiver from 2006 (see my sig). I had them side by side so it was relatively easy to quickly change cables around. I used the digital out of my Yamaha cd Player into the dig coax of each unit.

Initially I thought the UMC sounded way better...I then realized the UMC was playing louder. When I matched the levels the audio was nearly indistinguishable. There were some very subtle differences but nothing that put either unit over the top. I had other issues with the UMC so I didn't pursue further comparisons. Frankly..I didn't expect much difference in sound when comparing the digital paths. So I have to wonder about the OP's statements about a night and day difference between the UMC and Onkyo unit.

The UMC supposed strength lay in its analog section which I didn't evaluate. I'm not knocking the UMC..in fact may repurchase another UMC. But would caution people to take with a grain of salt that the UMC's digital section is a "giant Killer"

[Nemesis.ie]

Apr 27, 2010 10:06:06 GMT -5 jvenard said:

I have to laugh about some of the comments made regarding the UMC-1.
So much of listening to a product has to do with what you want to hear and what you want to hear.

There is a lot of truth in that, but I was really sceptical given the firmware issues etc. but I noticed an immediate improvement in clarity, it was VERY obvious, not subtle like it was going to the 3 x UPA-1s. The width of the sound stage in particular was clear as day, I could point to the spot on the wall (or rather through the wall) where it ended with the Yamaha and where it now ends with the UMC-1, it's a good 6"s to 12"s wider on each side and much more defined.

[Nemesis.ie]

Apr 27, 2010 11:06:41 GMT -5 canadianbacon said:

The music seems far better defined, crisper, cleaner and just all 'round better. As far as 5.1 for TV, the biggest thing I've noticed is that the channels seem better separated. By that I mean that audio intended for far right front, crossing to far left front or front to back etc, seems cleaner and much better defined. I don't know if there is something I didn't set up correctly with the 703 but it is clearly better defined with the UMC now.

Exactly - and interesting we are all using very similar descriptions.

I don't think it was bad setup. I spent a LOT of time tweaking and using REW and moving speakers to get the sound good with the Yamaha, the UMC-1 (note I didn't move any speakers, furniture or anything, just a straight swap-out) - the UMC-1 has superior audio within 30 mins of install.

[emokid]

I have to laugh about some of the comments made regarding the UMC-1.
So much of listening to a product has to do with what you want to hear and what you want to hear.


1. There is no reason for anyone to be making comments around this product until it is ready for prime time.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

The fact that you hear what you want to hear is ok , but to state that there is no reason to make any comments is just riddiculus.
There are problems for shure , but there are no problems that affect the sound performance as to my knowledge .
It might drop out , but when you got the sound , its the sound as its supposed to be and that quality is not likely to change even if they get rid of som annoying bugs

[NorthStar]

Apr 27, 2010 10:06:06 GMT -5 jvenard said:

... but I don't have any expectations to ever call it a Giant Killer, but a great entry level product.

I'd say the Only Game in Town at this price!

[Topend]

I don't have my UMC yet but I will post my experience when it arrives. I was very happy with the SQ of my Yamaha after I connected the XPA amps. If the UMC takes the SQ up another notch I will be very happy. Which ever way you look at it Emo has improved the listening experience for many.

[jdskycaster]

Apr 27, 2010 10:06:06 GMT -5 jvenard said:

1. There is no reason for anyone to be making comments around this product until it is ready for prime time.

2. If Emotiva would not have extended my RMA privliedges, I would have this puppy in the mail and back to Tennesse

3. I am happy with the fact that the UMC-1 seems to be quiet and I do not have any issues with any noise.

I would upgrade my Lexicon MC12 to an MC12HD, however, Lexicon is WAY behind the curve on what they are offering for an HD solution.

I hope that Emotiva can get this thing figured out and make a nice moderatly priced pre/pro, but I don't have any expectations to ever call it a Giant Killer, but a great entry level product.

1. The sound of this unit is worth commenting on bugs or not.
2. The fact that they have extended shows that they are serious about providing excellent customer service and in my opinion shows they are also serious about fixing the issues.
3. Glad you are happy. The noise floor definitely contributes to the overall sound quality.

Your reference to Lexicon is interesting and the fact that you have not returned the UMC-1 even with the issues sort of leans toward the fact that the sound quality cannot be too far off from what you are used to.

I am not sure anyone here is inferring that the UMC-1 was designed to directly compete with processors in the price range of Lexicon or Anthem or "place the name of multi-thousand dollar pre-pro's here."

I also think you are selling it short when you say it will be a great "entry level" product when all bugs are worked out. The only thing "entry level" for me is the price tag.

Best Regards,

JD

[moe]

If you have to spend $3 or $5k to beat the sound of a unit, it is a giant killer.I've owned many, to each their own but I know what sounds good to me, why would anyone care what someone else thinks.If I could be happy with the run of the mill mass mrkt I would be the happiest guy here.I think it's funny when someone types "they all sound similar etc.."I know for sure they have not owned/auditioned much gear.Hear what you want? not possible or I would have saved a small fortune,I hear what I hear.

When I feel I can stop dragging gear into my house, returning/selling it next week, that's when I know I like what I hear, I'm there.

[coolhands]

Apr 27, 2010 16:39:53 GMT -5 moe said:

When I feel I can stop dragging gear into my house, returning/selling it next week, that's when I know I like what I hear, I'm there.

+1 For the price and the quality I am here till then

[billmac]

My thoughts on the UMC-1 and 885 comparison is that they are both excellent prepros. They both excel in different areas and I guess you have to decide which features and qualities you desire. The UMC-1 is very strong on 2 CH SQ performance and does HT very well. The 885 I feel is excellent at handling HT duties including video processing but 2 CH SQ performance is not on a par with the UMC-1. For someone to say the 885 and UMC-1 sound the same for 2 CH SQ with either a analog or digital input has not listened to either one.

To be honest the Giant Killer name does not fit as I do not consider the 885 to be a Giant of a prepro. It is a great prepro as I owned one and now own the 886. As far as features go the 886 is better than the 885 but SQ they are very similar if not identical. The slight improvement that the 886 might have is a better calibration mic for Audyssey which is said to give better calibration results although YMMV . For that matter I do not consider the 886 a Giant of a prepro either but again a very good one.

IMO if the UMC-1 outclassed the Anthem AVM 50v/D2v, Classe SSP800, Denon AVP-1HD or the Arcam AV888 for both SQ and features then it would be a big time Giant Killer. But the 885 now goes for $700-800 and the 886 goes for $900-1100 which is not that much more expensive than the UMC-1 especially if the price climbs to possibly $799. So unless you really desire 2 CH SQ performance with more of an emphasis towards HT usage then the difference between the UMC-1 and the 885/886 is not that big IMO. I'm in no way slamming the UMC-1 just trying to give a different prespective from someone who has owned both at the same time .

Bill