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Post by dropzone7 on Apr 29, 2010 8:20:25 GMT -5
Surround sounds are so much better positioned in space and with better clarity. This is one of the biggest improvements I have noticed as well. I'm hearing things with the UMC-1 that I never heard with my Onkyo. Very exciting! |
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Post by khonfused on Apr 29, 2010 10:21:36 GMT -5
Adding an external amp to my avr was more than just an incremental step for my listening experience, it opened my eyes as to what vital part the electronics play (something I've underestimated for a long time).
In fact it was such a big improvement that I am excited to see even more sq improvement with changing the pre/pro.
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Post by napabill on Apr 29, 2010 15:44:57 GMT -5
That's good to hear. I just got around to hooking up the patio speakers to zone 2. Now that the weather is getting nice, in New England, I can't wait to put them through their paces. What power amp do you use to drive the Zone 2 patio speakers? |
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Post by petew on Apr 29, 2010 15:56:46 GMT -5
First post here...
I am so tempted by the UMC-1. The price can't be beat. Has all the features I need. I love to deal with small companies (like OPPO) that talk to their customers and actually fix stuff. If the choice is between a prepro from one of the giants for 2x or 3x, or a "giant" AVR with preouts at the same price, the UMC-1 is a no brainer.
I'm watching the forums to see how the software updates are coming, and waiting for the "buy now" button to reappear.
I'll be posting questions and observations in the near future. Thanks in advance.
Pete
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Chris
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Post by Chris on May 3, 2010 13:18:37 GMT -5
I have to rescind my comment that the sound of the UMC-1 is so good that I don't miss my Benchmark DAC-1. My original comment was based on V5 firmware. Since then we have been on a roller coaster of firmware updates that has left my head spinning sound wise. I can no longer recommend the UMC-1 for critical two channel listening with the current V6 Beta 2 firmware.
My testing, which I have chronicled in other threads, reveals that there is something seriously wrong when sending two channel PCM digtially to the UMC-1. It results in overloud bass and over modulation distortion that is clearly audible. I also have questions with regard to Direct versus Stereo relative volumes in the Digital domain and the fact that when using Full speakers it still sends bass to the Subwoofer.
I hope this can be fixed. It would seem the UMC-1 has the capability to sound great in Digital two channel mode but the current V6 Beta 2 software does not work for me in this regard.
-CB
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Post by Nemesis.ie on May 5, 2010 11:16:00 GMT -5
I think we need to get direct removed from the options for digital (or greyed out/ not selectable) per some of the recent chat in another thread as it just screws things up it would seem?
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Chris
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Post by Chris on May 5, 2010 11:48:03 GMT -5
I think we need to get direct removed from the options for digital (or greyed out/ not selectable) per some of the recent chat in another thread as it just screws things up it would seem? Huh? Good lord, if they remove Direct Mode for Digital or any other input I would seriously have to consider returning my UMC-1. A straight wire with gain option for music inputs is essential to me! -CB |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 5, 2010 12:01:05 GMT -5
IMO "Direct" has no real meaning for a digital input, as it is impossible for it to be direct in the same way an analog signal can be. A PCM signal must as a minimum be processed by the DAC, and if it's a Dolby or dts stream it must also be decoded.
Direct for an analog signal is essential for those who want it, but for digital signals I think it's a misnomer.
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Chris
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Post by Chris on May 5, 2010 12:19:01 GMT -5
IMO "Direct" has no real meaning for a digital input, as it is impossible for it to be direct in the same way an analog signal can be. A PCM signal must as a minimum be processed by the DAC, and if it's a Dolby or dts stream it must also be decoded. Direct for an analog signal is essential for those who want it, but for digital signals I think it's a misnomer. So, I'm left with Stereo and its no choice sub output and PLII etc. What kind of choice is that? I seriously think you are misguided on this? -CB |
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Post by markus on May 5, 2010 12:25:45 GMT -5
So, I'm left with Stereo and its no choice sub output and PLII etc. What kind of choice is that? I seriously think you are misguided on this?B I thought that's what you wanted? No filter, redirect or EQ - direct. |
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Post by skymovessideways on May 5, 2010 12:47:27 GMT -5
IMO "Direct" has no real meaning for a digital input, as it is impossible for it to be direct in the same way an analog signal can be. A PCM signal must as a minimum be processed by the DAC, and if it's a Dolby or dts stream it must also be decoded. Direct for an analog signal is essential for those who want it, but for digital signals I think it's a misnomer. I normally just lurk, but I've got strong feelings about this so I feel the need to reply. I agree with CB... "direct" is an absolute necessity, even for digital signals. It is not that "direct" has no meaning for digital signals, it just has a different meaning. Here is how I feel it should work: "direct" for analog inputs - UMC should just act as a pre-amp with the most direct possible path to the outputs. "direct" for digital inputs - UMC should only apply the DAC and level adjustments to all channels. It should also do decoding of DD, DTS, etc, if that is required. But, no crossover or EQ should be applied. If the speakers are set to "small", that should be IGNORED, and the speakers should be assumed full range. This is applicable for both stereo and multi-channel digital signals. I don't have a UMC1 (yet), but from what I read, it does "direct" correctly for analog inputs. But, it does NOT apply "direct" as I describe for digital inputs. The UMC does NOT ignore the speakers size setting (large or small) and it still applies the crossover for digital sources when direct is selected. This is wrong, IMO. It is unacceptable to force users to go into the settings and change the speaker size from small to large just to get what they want. |
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Chris
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Post by Chris on May 5, 2010 13:00:54 GMT -5
So, I'm left with Stereo and its no choice sub output and PLII etc. What kind of choice is that? I seriously think you are misguided on this?B I thought that's what you wanted? No filter, redirect or EQ - direct. Markus, you misunderstand. I am replying to the IMHO ridiculous statement to eliminate the Direct Digital mode. Direct to me is straight wire with gain. I can hook up my Benchmark DAC-1 directly between any of my two channel digital sources and my Amp. The digital source goes digital straight to the DAC-1's DAC and out to the volume control. That's what I want. Straight to the UMC-1 DAC D/A and out to the amp - nothing else. On paper this seems like nothing at all to obtain. Somehow the implementation is so much harder to get? For my money, I don't see how you get the sound quality right if you can't pass an input unmolested directly to the output. You've got to get this right or everything else is suspect. -CB |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 5, 2010 13:09:13 GMT -5
IMO "Direct" has no real meaning for a digital input, as it is impossible for it to be direct in the same way an analog signal can be. A PCM signal must as a minimum be processed by the DAC, and if it's a Dolby or dts stream it must also be decoded. Direct for an analog signal is essential for those who want it, but for digital signals I think it's a misnomer. I normally just lurk, but I've got strong feelings about this so I feel the need to reply. I agree with CB... "direct" is an absolute necessity, even for digital signals. It is not that "direct" has no meaning for digital signals, it just has a different meaning. Here is how I feel it should work: "direct" for analog inputs - UMC should just act as a pre-amp with the most direct possible path to the outputs. "direct" for digital inputs - UMC should only apply the DAC and level adjustments to all channels. It should also do decoding of DD, DTS, etc, if that is required. But, no crossover or EQ should be applied. If the speakers are set to "small", that should be IGNORED, and the speakers should be assumed full range. This is applicable for both stereo and multi-channel digital signals. I don't have a UMC1 (yet), but from what I read, it does "direct" correctly for analog inputs. But, it does NOT apply "direct" as I describe for digital inputs. The UMC does NOT ignore the speakers size setting (large or small) and it still applies the crossover for digital sources when direct is selected. This is wrong, IMO. It is unacceptable to force users to go into the settings and change the speaker size from small to large just to get what they want. OK, thank you for that now I understand what you want. I don't know the bottom line answer but it may be that the UMC-1 simply will not give you what you want. It is after all first and foremost a multi-channel A/V processor designed for use in a home theater. The fact that it also offers outstanding analog sound quality is a plus, as is the fact that it has a really decent sounding DAC capability. But it may or may not have the ability to bypass some digital processing while employing other parts of its digital processing. It may very well be that for the specific type of use you describe, the only real option would be for the user to manually set it up that way. Or use an external DAC and run analog signals to the UMC-1... |
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Post by markus on May 5, 2010 13:44:51 GMT -5
Direct to me is straight wire with gain. I can hook up my Benchmark DAC-1 directly between any of my two channel digital sources and my Amp. The digital source goes digital straight to the DAC-1's DAC and out to the volume control. That's what I want. I really don't see the need for digital passthrough, i.e. making the UMC behave like a decoder plus D/A. A 2.1 configuration set up correctly will beat 2 speaker stereo hands down. If Emotiva can implement digital passthrough - fine. But first they do need to fix a couple of other things, e.g. "direct" with MCPCM. |
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Chris
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Post by Chris on May 5, 2010 14:02:53 GMT -5
OK, thank you for that now I understand what you want. I don't know the bottom line answer but it may be that the UMC-1 simply will not give you what you want. It is after all first and foremost a multi-channel A/V processor designed for use in a home theater... But it may or may not have the ability to bypass some digital processing while employing other parts of its digital processing. It may very well be that for the specific type of use you describe, the only real option would be for the user to manually set it up that way. Or use an external DAC and run analog signals to the UMC-1... The fact is the UMC-1 "IS" capable of superb Direct Digital sound. I heard it myself in my system using V5 firmware. Unfortunately, Emotiva has not given us a way to go back to V5 which I have been stating had the best sound quality to date notwithstanding the operational issues of V5. I don't really buy the argument that a multi-channel preamp/processor can't sound good with just two channels. Again, it seems if you can't get the relatively simple stuff right all else is suspect. -CB |
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Post by markus on May 5, 2010 14:22:21 GMT -5
If you set th mains to "Fullrange" and disconnect or switch off your sub then you should have "direct" with "direct".
That's not the way it should work and we should not be forced to apply workarounds just because basic features behave weird.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on May 6, 2010 11:37:49 GMT -5
IMO "Direct" has no real meaning for a digital input, as it is impossible for it to be direct in the same way an analog signal can be. A PCM signal must as a minimum be processed by the DAC, and if it's a Dolby or dts stream it must also be decoded. Direct for an analog signal is essential for those who want it, but for digital signals I think it's a misnomer. So, I'm left with Stereo and its no choice sub output and PLII etc. What kind of choice is that? I seriously think you are misguided on this? -CB Maybe rename (and possibly modify the setup) of direct in digital to "DAC Mode"? |
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