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Post by tonymc on Apr 30, 2010 11:35:19 GMT -5
I know this has been covered, but I can't seem to find the threads. Any advantage/disadvantage to using an XLR to RCA cable on amps.
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chicagoemo
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Post by chicagoemo on Apr 30, 2010 21:32:15 GMT -5
Hi, I'm not an expert but my understanding is that yes, using XLRs with balanced equipment is superior to RCAs. Someone more up to speed would be able to explain why ... Emotiva amps are truly balanced, I understand ...
Steve
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Apr 30, 2010 22:26:30 GMT -5
You'd have to have long speaker cable runs to discern the difference between XLR and RCA. XLR are superior because they have better noise immunity and that's why they're used with professional studio gear. For cable runs up to 20 feet, RCA would be just as good, IMO.
Back to the OP's question, which if I'm interpreting it right, is asking if there's any benefit to using the XLR output and an XLR->RCA conversion. In this case, there's no benefit as you would lose the noise suppression that XLR cables provide. Just stick with RCAs for runs up to 20 feet and you'd be fine.
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Post by tonymc on May 1, 2010 0:34:28 GMT -5
Back to the OP's question, which if I'm interpreting it right, is asking if there's any benefit to using the XLR output and an XLR->RCA conversion. In this case, there's no benefit as you would lose the noise suppression that XLR cables provide. Just stick with RCAs for runs up to 20 feet and you'd be fine. Sorry I wasn't clear, but yes, that's what I was talking about. Using XLR from amp to RCA on pre-pro(conversion cable). I know there isn't any benefit as the XLR doesn't use the third pin on the conversion cables. I guess what I am wondering is: Will there be any sound degradation using this kind of cable?
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chicagoemo
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Post by chicagoemo on May 1, 2010 7:43:45 GMT -5
So Hemster, is it your opinion that XLR connections between amp and preamp (with no conversion) are not superior to RCAs?
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RadTech
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Post by RadTech on May 1, 2010 9:02:19 GMT -5
XLR's to RCA look cool but, it would be like running RCA to RCA. IMO, no SQ degradation.
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Post by tonymc on May 1, 2010 13:53:55 GMT -5
XLR's to RCA look cool but, it would be like running RCA to RCA. IMO, no SQ degradation. Thanks radtech.
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Post by jedinite24 on May 3, 2010 20:01:56 GMT -5
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hemster
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Post by hemster on May 3, 2010 21:46:44 GMT -5
So Hemster, is it your opinion that XLR connections between amp and preamp (with no conversion) are not superior to RCAs? It all depends on the cable length. for short runs, you would not be able to perceive a difference but for long runs, certainly XLR has better noise suppression. HTH
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Post by tonymc on May 4, 2010 9:15:21 GMT -5
Thank you sir.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on May 7, 2010 0:05:01 GMT -5
Hi, I'm not an expert but my understanding is that yes, using XLRs with balanced equipment is superior to RCAs. Someone more up to speed would be able to explain why ... Emotiva amps are truly balanced, I understand ... Steve Hi Steve, Only the XPA-1 is fully truly balanced from input to output. * As in aside, if you read the specs from any audio mag, you'll find in general that the performance (numbers) of XLR is slightly inferior to RCA connections; THD+N, Crosstalk, S/N Ratio & Frequency Response. But these are mainly non-fully truly balanced components. Now, to have a fully truly balanced component (amp or pre/pro), it cost much more money to produce, and they generally reflect that cost by a factor of 3 to 5 times more, depending of the brand. But the XPA-1 is the exception, it is a great value for a fully truly balanced power amp.
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Post by Mr. Ben on May 8, 2010 10:18:11 GMT -5
I think it would help if you knew what was going on electrically. In an unbalanced cable, the signal is carried on one wire, with a shield to protect that signal from getting corrupted. Here's a graphical example: An XLR cable has a third wire. If you have a balanced source, it's putting out two signals, carried on two wires, still surrounded by a shield. The two signals have opposite polarities. It looks like this: There are two ways to combine these signals. The first way is to simply merge them. This will give you silence, as they will cancel each other out. The other way is to use the difference between them as your new signal, which is obviously what is done in audio. Here's why unbalanced cables are better for long runs. If your shield is inadequate, and some stray voltage affects the signal, it's going to effect both of them, since they travel together. Let's say that the interference pushes our two waves up slightly and briefly, so they're not centered on that 0.0 line anymore, but instead they are on the 0.05 line. The difference between them is still the same as it was before, so when your amplifier combines the two together, you'll get the original signal. Great, eh? There are a few ways to convert a balanced signal to unbalanced. The first is easy: you just ignore one of the signal wires. In the picture above, if you drop the red signal, you get something that looks a lot like the first graph. The other way is to do the proper combination. The same two choices are there for the device that generates the signal in the first place. If it's an unbalanced device, and it has XLR jacks, it could simply send the signal over one wire only, and leave the other to ground. Or, it could generate a proper balanced signal from the unbalanced one using extra circuits. Truly balanced devices are hard to come by. Imagine a two channel preamp. To make it fully balanced, it needs to perform signal routing and volume control for four signals, not two. This doubles most of the internal components. A balanced amplifier is essentially two unbalanced amplifiers in the same chassis, each handling one of the two signals. Which is a better design: one that spends 1k on a truly-balanced preamp, or 1k on a preamp that's internally unbalanced, but the components have twice the quality (since you need half as many)? Both devices can have XLR jacks on them, and both can sound great. Now, finally, back to the original question. These cables or adapters that have an XLR jack on one end and RCA on the other. Guess how they convert the signal? They drop one. So you don't get any of the benefits of a balanced connection. You're much better off using an unbalanced cable, since the conversions to/from any balanced devices are more likely to be done correctly in the device itself. Plus, since your devices are probably unbalanced in the first place, you can avoid that conversion circuitry all together.
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on May 8, 2010 17:06:45 GMT -5
What would be the point in converting it if both pieces of equipment have the same connection (RCA)?
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on May 8, 2010 17:46:17 GMT -5
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on May 8, 2010 19:28:48 GMT -5
I assume that was directed at me. I understand the benefits of XLR in certain situations, but when you use an RCA in the mix it negates the benefits of RCA because of the weakest link theory. Ultimately you are still using RCA. It may be an XLR, but it is merely a type of connection at that point.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on May 8, 2010 19:56:04 GMT -5
^ Nope, it wasn't directed at you, but at anyone who cares to know more.
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on May 8, 2010 19:59:07 GMT -5
^ Nope, it wasn't directed at you, but at anyone who cares to know more. Oh. Well in that case, thanks for posting links that provide info.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on May 8, 2010 20:06:30 GMT -5
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Post by patrickp on Jul 5, 2010 11:08:11 GMT -5
IMHO .
I also agree that the common mode rejection of a truly balanced system cannot be enjoyed via XLR if the equipment is not truely balanced but there is still a benefit if XLR connectors may be used throughout (including on the equipment panel). The mechanical connection and mechanical integrity of the XKR connector far exceed the RCA. One will rarely, if ever see RCA used in a professional environment even if they are not running truly balanced equipment. If I can use balanced I will, even if the equipment is not truly balanced. There are also ways to get some of the benefit of balanced interconnects by adding a bit of circuitry to the in/out of the equipment even without it being truly fully balanced. It's a work-around and not as good as fully balanced but is still beneficial.
Obviously if any RCA's are used on the equipment panel it negates any benefit of the XLR , at least on that end of the cable from the mechanical standpoint but if you can use XLR's (like on the XPA-5 etc) it is still useful. Some benifit is obtained even if the cable has an RCA on one end and an XLR on the other but only in the connectors are on the cable (ie don't use and extra adapter)
Just my opinions -
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