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Post by bborzell on Jun 8, 2010 18:20:46 GMT -5
I've been wondering about the potential sound quality differences between upgrading the analog section in my OPPO BDP-83 (to SE) versus just running a digital out to the new Emo XDA-1 DAC. For straight stereo listening, it would appear that either option would be an improvement over the current OPPO BDP-83 analog out running through the UMC-1 in direct mode. The question is whether either approach appears to be a significantly better option from a design spec standpoint (given that I will not be able to listen to both prior to making a decision). Yes, I already know I could do both.  Any thoughts? |
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Post by bborzell on Jun 9, 2010 17:14:07 GMT -5
Since this question resulted in overwhelming and contradictory responses, I called Lonnie. He said it pretty much depends on what is happening with the 83SE signal path after the DACs which he mentioned were very good DACs.
So, I'm off to learn more about the path of the 83SE...
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Post by briank on Jul 10, 2010 14:02:18 GMT -5
Interested in what you find out, but I'd say the only way to tell for sure is with a side by side comparison. Maybe when the XDA-1 comes out, someone will compare it to the 83se and give us an opinion.
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Post by rockguitar on Jul 10, 2010 22:11:32 GMT -5
Since this question resulted in overwhelming and contradictory responses, I called Lonnie. He said it pretty much depends on what is happening with the 83SE signal path after the DACs which he mentioned were very good DACs. So, I'm off to learn more about the path of the 83SE... In answer to your question, the best we can do is compare the 83SE and 83 to known DAC's, e.g. compared to a Benchmark DAC1 "These improvements when using only the coaxial digital output demonstrate that there is enhancement to the coax and optical digital outputs as well as to the analog outputs. This must be a result of the upgrading of the power supply. I found in switching between the front channels of the analog six-channel outputs of the Special Edition player and the coaxial output feeding my Benchmark DAC1 processor, I could discern little difference. Previously, in comparison with the standard Oppo player analog stereo outs, feeding the coax via the Benchmark DAC made a noticeable improvement in clarity, resolution and soundstaging over straight out of the analog RCA jacks" www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=6705So the question is really a matter of application. Perhaps this article can give you some food for thought. |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 11, 2010 18:18:02 GMT -5
I am guessing here, but it was claimed that the ERC-1 has superior 2 channel sound over the Oppo. Lonnie claims that the ERC-1 to XDA-1 is superior to ERC-1 analogue output. So that's two steps up from the standard Oppo. Hence the Oppo + XDA-1 should be as good or better than the Oppo SE.
Oppo admits that there is room to improve the Oppo SE, because they let NuForce do another improvement...
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Jul 11, 2010 21:08:36 GMT -5
Interested in what you find out, but I'd say the only way to tell for sure is with a side by side comparison. Maybe when the XDA-1 comes out, someone will compare it to the 83se and give us an opinion. Agreed. One thing to keep in mind is that the XDA-1 will have the advantage in that you can connect multiple sources to it. This may or may not be a benefit depending on the number of sources. |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Jul 19, 2010 11:27:01 GMT -5
Since this question resulted in overwhelming and contradictory responses, I called Lonnie. He said it pretty much depends on what is happening with the 83SE signal path after the DACs which he mentioned were very good DACs. So, I'm off to learn more about the path of the 83SE... In answer to your question, the best we can do is compare the 83SE and 83 to known DAC's, e.g. compared to a Benchmark DAC1 "These improvements when using only the coaxial digital output demonstrate that there is enhancement to the coax and optical digital outputs as well as to the analog outputs. This must be a result of the upgrading of the power supply. I found in switching between the front channels of the analog six-channel outputs of the Special Edition player and the coaxial output feeding my Benchmark DAC1 processor, I could discern little difference. Previously, in comparison with the standard Oppo player analog stereo outs, feeding the coax via the Benchmark DAC made a noticeable improvement in clarity, resolution and soundstaging over straight out of the analog RCA jacks" www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=6705So the question is really a matter of application. Perhaps this article can give you some food for thought. One thing I noticed about the article you referred to is that he was using the front channel outs from the multichannel outputs to compare to the Benchmark DAC and found them to be equal. The Oppo-83SE has dedicated stereo outputs that are superior to the multichannel front outputs. These are to be used specifically for stereo. If he did not compare these to the Benchmark DAC, then the review is pointless other then to say that the stereo outs are probably better then the Benchmark DAC. |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Jul 19, 2010 11:30:19 GMT -5
I am guessing here, but it was claimed that the ERC-1 has superior 2 channel sound over the Oppo. Lonnie claims that the ERC-1 to XDA-1 is superior to ERC-1 analogue output. So that's two steps up from the standard Oppo. Hence the Oppo + XDA-1 should be as good or better than the Oppo SE. Oppo admits that there is room to improve the Oppo SE, because they let NuForce do another improvement... I am not disagreeing with you that the XDA-1 could be better then the Oppo SE, but I am not sure how you reached the conclusion that it should be at least as good or better.. What you said is basically like saying Peter is faster than Paul, and Joe is faster then Peter so therefor Joe must be as fast or faster then Pauls brother Mike... |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 19, 2010 16:05:11 GMT -5
I am guessing here, but it was claimed that the ERC-1 has superior 2 channel sound over the Oppo. Lonnie claims that the ERC-1 to XDA-1 is superior to ERC-1 analogue output. So that's two steps up from the standard Oppo. Hence the Oppo + XDA-1 should be as good or better than the Oppo SE. Oppo admits that there is room to improve the Oppo SE, because they let NuForce do another improvement... I am not disagreeing with you that the XDA-1 could be better then the Oppo SE, but I am not sure how you reached the conclusion that it should be at least as good or better.. What you said is basically like saying Peter is faster than Paul, and Joe is faster then Peter so therefor Joe must be as fast or faster then Pauls brother Mike... Yeah, assuming that Mike is only slightly faster than Peter.  Okay, my thinking is not waterproof, but from what I read about the Oppo 83SE is that the analogue output is not night and day better than the standard 83... Or else there would be no point in permitting NuForce to have a go at it. Report is that the NuForce is the same amount of improvement to the SE than the SE is to the standard 83... |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Jul 19, 2010 17:37:07 GMT -5
I am not disagreeing with you that the XDA-1 could be better then the Oppo SE, but I am not sure how you reached the conclusion that it should be at least as good or better.. What you said is basically like saying Peter is faster than Paul, and Joe is faster then Peter so therefor Joe must be as fast or faster then Pauls brother Mike... Yeah, assuming that Mike is only slightly faster than Peter. Okay, my thinking is not waterproof, but from what I read about the Oppo 83SE is that the analogue output is not night and day better than the standard 83... Or else there would be no point in permitting NuForce to have a go at it. Report is that the NuForce is the same amount of improvement to the SE than the SE is to the standard 83... Yeah.. There are varying opinions on this though... Lots of people and reviews I have seen said the 83SE if a big upgrade to the 83. I have the 83SE and a guy I know has the NuForce Edition.. I am trying to see if I can get them side by side for comparison. Based on looking at what was done the the NuForce Edition I don't think it will be as big a step as the SE from the non SE. I will let you know if we end up by comparing. What I can say is that I am hoping the XDA-1 is better then the SE. The SE is an excellent player, infact I sold my Rotel CD player because I found the SE more pleasing. I have also compared the SE to the Cambridge DAC magic and the SE came out on top for me and everyone that was there. I would love to find out I could spend $299 and have even better sound  |
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 19, 2010 18:19:25 GMT -5
Yeah, assuming that Mike is only slightly faster than Peter. Okay, my thinking is not waterproof, but from what I read about the Oppo 83SE is that the analogue output is not night and day better than the standard 83... Or else there would be no point in permitting NuForce to have a go at it. Report is that the NuForce is the same amount of improvement to the SE than the SE is to the standard 83... Yeah.. There are varying opinions on this though... Lots of people and reviews I have seen said the 83SE if a big upgrade to the 83. I have the 83SE and a guy I know has the NuForce Edition.. I am trying to see if I can get them side by side for comparison. Based on looking at what was done the the NuForce Edition I don't think it will be as big a step as the SE from the non SE. I will let you know if we end up by comparing. What I can say is that I am hoping the XDA-1 is better then the SE. The SE is an excellent player, infact I sold my Rotel CD player because I found the SE more pleasing. I have also compared the SE to the Cambridge DAC magic and the SE came out on top for me and everyone that was there. I would love to find out I could spend $299 and have even better sound For what it is worth, a users review: www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17724558&highlight=#post17724558 |
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Post by Mr. Ben on Jul 19, 2010 19:44:49 GMT -5
IMHO, get the Oppo.
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Post by stuofsci02 on Jul 19, 2010 21:26:16 GMT -5
Yeah.. There are varying opinions on this though... Lots of people and reviews I have seen said the 83SE if a big upgrade to the 83. I have the 83SE and a guy I know has the NuForce Edition.. I am trying to see if I can get them side by side for comparison. Based on looking at what was done the the NuForce Edition I don't think it will be as big a step as the SE from the non SE. I will let you know if we end up by comparing. What I can say is that I am hoping the XDA-1 is better then the SE. The SE is an excellent player, infact I sold my Rotel CD player because I found the SE more pleasing. I have also compared the SE to the Cambridge DAC magic and the SE came out on top for me and everyone that was there. I would love to find out I could spend $299 and have even better sound For what it is worth, a users review: www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17724558&highlight=#post17724558Yeah I have read that thread before including that review.. I am sure there is difference as there should be.. For me when that poster started talking about cables it really turned me off the rest of his post. Everything else he said might be true, but at the same time it might be the blinders talking... Not to make this a cables debate... |
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Post by Vermont99 on Jul 22, 2010 7:59:08 GMT -5
I have a similar problem I aim currently using my Pioneer Elite DBP-23FD for CD’s, DVD and Blue Ray. The 23FD I aim told has a very good audio dac’s and audio capacitors, I aim using the analog out to the UMC-1. I just ordered an ERC-1 and USP-1 the ERC-1s suppose to be better then the 83SE, 23DF and the UMC-1. Now do I cancel the USP-1 and order the XDA-1 or save money and connect it to the UMC-1 and see how it sounds seems you will be doing the same connecting the 83 to the UMC-1. Does any body know if the XDA-1 will have HT Bypass like the USP-1. Decisions Decisions what to do.
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twilkins
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Post by twilkins on Jul 22, 2010 9:24:37 GMT -5
I have a similar problem I aim currently using my Pioneer Elite DBP-23FD for CD’s, DVD and Blue Ray. The 23FD I aim told has a very good audio dac’s and audio capacitors, I aim using the analog out to the UMC-1. I just ordered an ERC-1 and USP-1 the ERC-1s suppose to be better then the 83SE, 23DF and the UMC-1. Now do I cancel the USP-1 and order the XDA-1 or save money and connect it to the UMC-1 and see how it sounds seems you will be doing the same connecting the 83 to the UMC-1. Does any body know if the XDA-1 will have HT Bypass like the USP-1. Decisions Decisions what to do. No HT Bypass. Youll need the USP-1 for that. So even though XDA-1 directly to amp is optimal sound solution I'll be using the USP-1 with the XDA-1. It's a trade off between convenience and perhaps better SQ. |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jul 22, 2010 9:25:56 GMT -5
Does any body know if the XDA-1 will have HT Bypass like the USP-1. No, XDA-1 will not have HT bypass. Inserting the XDA-1 and not the USP-1 in a HT system, via XLR to a XPA-series amp means that you have to toggle between XLR and coax on the back of the amp. Sonically superior, but not very convenient in use. |
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Post by Vermont99 on Jul 22, 2010 9:57:50 GMT -5
Thanks so my best sound solution is still the ERC-1 connected to the USP-1 and not to the UMC-1. Then connect the UMC-1 L/R out to the USP-1 and use the Balanced USP-1 out to the XPA-5 and use the Pioneer 23FD for DVD and Blue Ray. Next on my list is the XPR-2??
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Post by stuofsci02 on Jul 22, 2010 11:59:18 GMT -5
I have a similar problem I aim currently using my Pioneer Elite DBP-23FD for CD’s, DVD and Blue Ray. The 23FD I aim told has a very good audio dac’s and audio capacitors, I aim using the analog out to the UMC-1. I just ordered an ERC-1 and USP-1 the ERC-1s suppose to be better then the 83SE, 23DF and the UMC-1. Now do I cancel the USP-1 and order the XDA-1 or save money and connect it to the UMC-1 and see how it sounds seems you will be doing the same connecting the 83 to the UMC-1. Does any body know if the XDA-1 will have HT Bypass like the USP-1. Decisions Decisions what to do. I don't know that anyone has said the ERC-1 is better then the 83SE... just the standard 83.. In any event, I would avoid using the Oppo as a volume control. I believe in the manual they say this will reduce sound quality as it is done in the digital domain and drops bits.... This has also been my experience with other devices with digital volume.. Emo has said you can use the XDA for volume control with no reduced quality.. I am skeptical and will take the wait and see approach.. And oh yeah... I would not connect the dedicated stereo outputs on the Oppo to the UMC-1, I would connect directly to the USP-1.. Run either HDMI or Multichannel outs from the Oppo to the UMC-1.. |
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twilkins
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Post by twilkins on Jul 22, 2010 12:00:11 GMT -5
Thanks so my best sound solution is still the ERC-1 connected to the USP-1 and not to the UMC-1. Then connect the UMC-1 L/R out to the USP-1 and use the Balanced USP-1 out to the XPA-5 and use the Pioneer 23FD for DVD and Blue Ray. Next on my list is the XPR-2?? The USP-1 does not have balanced outs. I think you're looking at the proposed XSP-1 for that. |
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twilkins
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Post by twilkins on Jul 22, 2010 12:12:12 GMT -5
Does any body know if the XDA-1 will have HT Bypass like the USP-1. No, XDA-1 will not have HT bypass. Inserting the XDA-1 and not the USP-1 in a HT system, via XLR to a XPA-series amp means that you have to toggle between XLR and coax on the back of the amp. Sonically superior, but not very convenient in use. Yes; I thought about doing this but would have to toggle each UPA-1 to access the XLR connections. |
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