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Post by roadrunner on Jul 14, 2010 20:55:01 GMT -5
Just so that you know, Lonnie does not recommend running the XPA-5 as a 2-channel amp... especially if you push it hard. He said that it puts more strain on the output boards than they were designed to handle. Over time, doing so could deminish the life of the output devices. Also, the XPA-2 has 12 output devices per channel where the XPA-5 only has 6 per channel. The XPA-2 also runs its rails at a higher voltage.
You really want to have your Fronts and Center to be driven by the Emotiva amp and if you feel you must use the Pioneer's amps, only drive the surrounds with it. You will like the sound better if you drive all channels with the Emotiva amp.
If your Fronts are power hogs, you may want to add the XPA-2 or the Monoblocks later on. If your budget allows, you might want to buy the XPA-2 and the XPA-5 while the sales price is still in effect.
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Post by audioalan on Jul 15, 2010 10:50:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the additional technical details of the different amps. I was wondering if it wasn't recommended to use for fewer channels. That answers it.
Decisions, decisions...
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jul 15, 2010 12:00:57 GMT -5
Alan, I just finished reading this full thread. Here's my take: Your SC-27 is an excellent receiver. Your Polk speakers (in particular your two front mains) like a lot of power. Without going into deep explanations, get the Emotiva XPA-2. * In the present, you'll notice a huge difference. In the future, you'll know if some newer actions are to be taken. => Final conclusion: Emotiva XPA-2. Cheers, Bob P.S. The sale ends Sunday the 18th, and even if the XPA-2 (& XPA-5) are out of stock, you can still reserve it/them at that price by clicking the "Reserve" box before the expiration date.
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Post by UT-Driven on Jul 15, 2010 13:00:56 GMT -5
I agree with the LoTR on the XPA-2. You had mentioned about matching amps across the front 3 channels. I don't see this as being as critical as matching drivers across the fronts myself.
Doug
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Post by audioalan on Jul 15, 2010 14:05:25 GMT -5
Hmmm, looks like I have almost a tie on votes. Half for the XPA-5, half for the XPA-2. lol
I do agree with LOTR though. The SC-27 is an excellent receiver. But, it falls "just a bit" short of 750 watts per channel into 8 ohms. ;-) I'd imagine either would be a step up for the Polk 2.3's. I just don't know how much power is "enough" for those beasts.
Alan
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jul 15, 2010 14:30:47 GMT -5
Hmmm, looks like I have almost a tie on votes. Half for the XPA-5, half for the XPA-2. lol I do agree with LOTR though. The SC-27 is an excellent receiver. But, it falls "just a bit" short of 750 watts per channel into 8 ohms. ;-) I'd imagine either would be a step up for the Polk 2.3's. I just don't know how much power is "enough" for those beasts. Alan Alan, I'm not too big (anymore) on repeating myself; but your two front Polk speakers will benefit the most from the XPA-2 (much more so than the XPA-5). By the way, I own both of these amps myself. Your two front mains is what triggered your SC-27 to go into protective mode (not your center, and not your four surrounds). Your SC-27 can take care of powering your five other speakers crossed at 80 Hz or so. And next year or so (after your bank account has seen a raise in it) just get the next sale for the XPA-5. This will be my last post in this thread. Cheers, Bob
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Post by audioalan on Jul 15, 2010 14:53:41 GMT -5
Bob - Sorry, I don't mean to make you repeat yourself, but I do appreciate your input! Perhaps I should try to clarify why I'm still on the fence. I didn't even have the Polk 2.3's as my mains when the SC-27 went into Protection mode. I had a pair of Jensen CS-315's speakers (circa 1991), which are rated at 8 ohms, 80 wpc as the mains. Additionally, last night I looked up my Yamaha center channel. Like the surrounds, it is also a 6 ohm speaker, rated at 140 watts.
That leads me to believe that it actually was the 6 ohm speakers (side, rear surrounds and center) that caused it to go into protection mode, and not the easier driven 8 ohm mains. As a result, I lowered the rear and side surrounds to Small, and haven't had a problem since then. Finally, this past weekend I added the Polk 2.3's as the new mains. They too are 8 ohms, but can handle tons of power. I was thinking it would be nice to give them more juice, but it still makes me wonder if leaving all of those 6 ohm speakers on the Pioneer is a good idea.
So basically I'm trying to solve 2 problems:
1) No more protection mode (and hopefully run the surrounds in Large again... or at least have that option).
2) Feed the 50-750 watt Polk 2.3s with as much power as will make them sound their best (within reason).
Hopefully that explains why I'm still a bit unclear as to the direction I should take.
Alan
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Post by UT-Driven on Jul 15, 2010 15:23:30 GMT -5
How hard were you pushing it? I have a pair of 4 ohm speakers on my SC-27 and I usually am at around -20 on the volume for DVDs and Blu-Ray movies, about 24-25 for music overall.
I only have the 2 speakers hooked up currently due to location issues with my surrounds and no place for my center atm.
Doug
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Post by audioalan on Jul 15, 2010 15:39:31 GMT -5
Doug - I was at about -3 or -3.5 (if I recall correctly) on U-571 - the first depth charge scene. It's only gone into protection mode on that one scene. I had to turn it down to about -6 or so before it would stop shutting off on me.
I have a fairly large basement, so it's harder to get loud volumes compared to a smaller space. Admittedly, that was rockin' pretty good. Maybe this was actually a message from my ears - turn it down! ;-)
Do you have an Emotiva hooked to your SC-27? If so, what model? How does it blend with the SC-27?
Thanks,
Alan
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Post by UT-Driven on Jul 15, 2010 15:43:50 GMT -5
Doug - I was at about -3 or -3.5 (if I recall correctly) on U-571 - the first depth charge scene. It's only gone into protection mode on that one scene. I had to turn it down to about -6 or so before it would stop shutting off on me. I have a fairly large basement, so it's harder to get loud volumes compared to a smaller space. Admittedly, that was rockin' pretty good. Maybe this was actually a message from my ears - turn it down! ;-) Do you have an Emotiva hooked to your SC-27? If so, what model? How does it blend with the SC-27? Thanks, Alan I currently do not have an external amplifier hooked to it. I bought this receiver to simplify things. I am going to sell 1 or two of the RPA amplifiers that I have (currently have 2 RPA-1 and a RPA-2) and use a RPA either for front channel duty or move it to my bedroom system (currently using USP-1, UPA-2 and ERC-1 along with my Salk Surround IIs, which are supposed to be my surround speakers for the main system). Doug
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Post by audioalan on Jul 15, 2010 15:54:11 GMT -5
Ok, I just figured it was worth a shot to see what you thought...
Thanks anyway,
Alan
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jul 15, 2010 15:58:39 GMT -5
Alright Alan. First, please don't feel sorry, I did not mean anything at all from my post, only the emphasis on your front Polk speakers powered by the XPA-2, that's all. Now the question is not XPA-2 or XPA-5, it's both of them, just get them both! I did not realise you like to drive also your surrounds full range, and I'm not arguing with your choice, but that's why you got two subwoofers in your system for. Alan, you have a much better overall bass balance in your room with your two subs judiciously positioned than bass coming from your two front mains and surrounds, fact. There are several serious papers on that, and bass coming from several places in your room is almost impossible to balance properly without the need of sophisticated tools and also you have only one position where you can sit for that. But if you position your two subs properly (me I like the two front corners), and direct the bass not only from the LFE channel but also from all your other channels to them (your subs), you'll accomplish a much better overall balanced blend in your room. * And use the great Advanced MCACC from your SC-27 receiver. ** For two-channel Stereo listening, just use the Pure Direct audio mode from your receiver so that your two front mains are now playing full range. - For Movies, cross them ALL. This is the best advice so far that I gave out in all day. ...And I've been at it already for over 100 posts, just today alone! Cheers, Bob
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Post by audioalan on Jul 15, 2010 17:39:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the detailed response, and rejoining the conversation, Bob! :-D
Ok, almost there, guys. I realize that I'm actually getting used to the surrounds being set to Small. So, assuming I keep it that way, the Pioneer should have enough power to run the Surrounds and Center. I'm now 99% sold on getting the XPA-2, but what concerns me is Roadrunner's comment:
"You really want to have your Fronts and Center to be driven by the Emotiva amp"
But, if I only bought the XPA-2, the SC-27 would be driving the Center. Would I notice a big discrepancy in sound quality between the L/R and Center? Enough that I would feel I made a poor choice?
At this point I'm only in the market for one amp (so I can't buy a XPA-2 and 5), and the extra power of the XPA-2 does sound like the way to go for the Polk 2.3s. I just don't want the front soundstage to sound unbalanced or something...
Anyone running just an XPA-2 on their mains and everything else off the receiver? Satisfied with the sound?
Thanks!
Alan
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Post by roadrunner on Jul 15, 2010 21:03:47 GMT -5
Alan,
The one speaker that usually gets overlooked in HT is the Center Channel. Many experts claim the most important speaker for ensuring enjoyable listening of movies is the Center Channel; and, I just happen to agree with them. It is very important that your Fronts and Center be well balanced and have the same sonic signature. If you use the XPA-2 to drive the Fronts you will be feeding them 300 Watts per channel; and, if you use the Pioneer receiver to drive the Center and surrounds you will only be providing about 110 Watts per channel through the Center speaker. That is a pretty significant imbalance even if the pioneer's amps were sonically equal to the Emotiva XPA-2's (which it isn't). To calibrate your speakers using the Pioneer for Center and Emotiva for the Fronts, you would have to significantly hold back the XPA-2, which would remove the advantage to using the XPA-2 vs the XPA-5.
You would get better and more balanced sound by using the XPA-5 than you would from combining the XPA-2/Pioneer Receiver. The sonic performance of the XPA-5 and the XPA-2 are very similar, with the main difference being better headroom from the XPA-2. Since your budget does not allow you to purchase both Emotiva amps at this time, your best course is to go with the XPA-5 and use the Pioneer for your surrounds. When your budget allows, then get the XPA-2 to use with the XPA-5. Of course, you would drive the big Polks using the XPA-2.
If you could afford to get a pair of XPA-1s, instead of the XPA-2, you could really make those big Polks sing. Those speakers love power and the XPA-1 offers gobs of good clean power. Both Audioholics and Home Theater HiFi honored the XPA-1 as the best amplifier they reviewed during 2009... regardless of price.
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Post by audioalan on Jul 15, 2010 21:49:00 GMT -5
Roadrunner - Yeah, I agree that the Center is very important, I just wasn't sure how much of a difference running the different amps to the Mains vs. Center would make. However, I see your point that it's a big discrepancy in power and I'd be holding back the XPA-2. Sounds like I should go the route of buying the XPA-5 now (which still should improve my system and help the Front/Surround Polks), and then buy the XPA-2 later (to really supercharge the 2.3's) when the next sale and funds come around...
Regarding the XPA-1 - I thought I read that all of the Emotiva amp lineup is common ground EXCEPT for the XPA-1. Correct? If so, I can't even consider those. The Polk 2.3s require common ground amps because of the interconnect cable that connects the speakers.
Thanks,
Alan
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jul 16, 2010 12:36:37 GMT -5
OK, here's my take on this with a very open mind. Alan, your center speaker is a Yamaha one right? And it is in the center of your room right? Probably below your display right? And you probably cross it at around 80 Hz right? Do I need to elaborate any further? Who cares that your SC-27 is powering it, it will never sound like your front Left and Right Polk speakers, NEVER! So what is the true real benefit of powering it from the same amp as your other speakers??? Roadrunner, I agree with what you said in theory. If Alan would have the exact same center speaker as his two front mains, that would perhaps make your theory works better. But even then, his center speaker will NEVER sound the same as his other ones, for the simple and logical reason of the room's positioning of it. Heck, even the front Left and Right don't sound the same! And it certainly not the amp that's going to help in that department. By the way Alan, which Yamaha center speaker model is it? And Alan, if you go with the XPA-5 now, and later on with the XPA-2, that's fine. But if you go with the XPA-2 now, and the XPA-5 later on, that's also mighty fine. Me, personally, with my own system, and also with your own system, having to go with one amp for now, and another one later on (like next year perhaps, or even this Christmas), I would go with that XPA-2 first.
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Post by Topend on Jul 16, 2010 15:33:17 GMT -5
If it were me I would go with the XPA-5. If you decide on the XPA-2 then that will serve you well too.
When I added the XPA-5 to my old Yamaha 3800 estimate it was a 40% improvement to my listening. I then added the XPA-2 which I estimate added another 10% over the XPA-5.
These figures are just numbers and are not measurements but I have used them to indicate how good the XPA-5 is when compared to the XPA-2. You will see more improvement gap between the receiver and the XPA-5 than you will between the XPA-5 and the XPA-2. With the XPA-5 the improvement will be heard on 5 speakers, not just 2.
Which ever amp you decide on you will not be disappointed.
Dave.
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Post by audioalan on Jul 16, 2010 16:15:05 GMT -5
Great points on both sides of the discussion.
XPA-2 - More power, but only for 2 speakers XPA-5 - Not as much power, but improves power to 5 speakers instead of 2.
I think I'll just flip a coin. ;-) lol Either way, the consensus seems to be I won't be disappointed either way...
Alan
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jul 17, 2010 9:18:59 GMT -5
That's right Alan; either way you win. And besides, wou'll end up with both amps eventually. Now the only remaining question is; which side of the coin will show face up? ...And that's the easy part. The toughest part of it, is for you to flip that coin up in the air. How hard is it?
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Post by beekermartin on Jul 17, 2010 11:10:51 GMT -5
I am going to add another 2 cents. At this point I think we have convinced you to set your speakers as small. Cross the center and surrounds at 80 and cross the mains at what you think sounds best but don't set them as large. When you listen to 2 channel music and you want to run the mains as large just use pure direct mode. I have tried using pure audio and direct with my Onkyo 886 but I still prefer stereo mode. Stereo uses Audyssey and the speaker settings in the setup menu. Pure audio and direct does not. Those two modes bypass Audyssey and run the mains as large. My mains each have two 8" woofers with their own built in amps. They are large full range speakers capable of @20hz. Regardless, the overall sound quality is better with them set to small. That is because Audyssey has much better bass correction software for the sub channel. Do I get more bass with the mains set to large? Yes. Is it accurate, tight bass? No. Again, some people like the sound of excessive bass. There is nothing wrong with that if that is what you like. I prefer accurate bass. Like Lordoftherings said, it would take a lot of EQing power to correct the bass for each speaker if they are all being used as large. Of course this is with my setup in my room. My exact setup in your room could sound completely different. In my opinion bass should blend perfectly with each speaker. In a properly setup system that is the way it sounds. Of course that is not the way the average joe thinks. Most people think excessive bass that is much louder than the rest of the system sounds awesome! I do not. With all that said my recommendation is to get the XPA-5 first if you main priority is surround sound use. If you listen to a lot of 2 channel music then get the XPA-2 first and let the Pioneer handle the other channels. If it was me I would get the XPA-2 first since I listen to a lot of music. Even with surround sound music the mains are pushed the hardest. Luckily I have a 7.1 setup so I didn't have to struggle with the decision of what to get first. I had to get both! ;D
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