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Post by wyvern621 on Sept 18, 2010 20:59:06 GMT -5
My home theater is on the main level of the house and the amplifier rack is in the basement. I've successfully run this setup with three amplifier brands with no problems.
When I traded in an XPA-5 using the existing signal cables, it constantly went into protect mode. I then wired a double-shielded 4-channel snake cable, but the amp exhibited the same problem.
The rack is on a dedicated 20 amp circuit, so I'd rather not have to put the amp upstairs on the same circuit as the rest of the HT equipment.
Is it possible to use long (40 ft) signal leads with the XPA amp series given its very sensitive protection circuits.
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Post by roadrunner on Sept 18, 2010 21:42:42 GMT -5
If I understood your post correctly, you have recently placed an Emotiva XPA-5 Power Amp into you home theater and this amp is connected to a dedicated 20A circuit. You also report that the XPA-5 goes into protect mode upon powering up and that this confuses you because previous amps ran in the same circuit without problems. Is all this correct?
What you did not say is what other gear is connected to the XPA-5; how that gear is connected (RCA or XLR) to it; how long are the connecting cables; method used to connect to your speakers (banana plugs, bare wire, etc); what GA of wire used for speaker cables. What trouble shooting steps have you already tried?
The vast majority of "Protect Mode" problems are caused by cable problems on one sort or another. The protection circuits on Emotiva power amps are very sensitive to protect you and your connected gear from serious injury. I suggest that you very carefully examine each and every cable, including power cables, connection cables and speaker cables in your setup. If after carefully checking all cabling you still are at a loss, then disconnect all cables from the power amp except its power cable. Then power up the XPA-5 to see if it goes into protect mode when nothing is connected to it.
If the amp comes up and has all blue LED lights on turn the power switch off and connect just ONE cable then turn the amp on. Does that channel's blue LED light up and the amp not enter protect mode? If so, turn the power off to the XPA-5 and add one more cable to it; power the amp up and check the LED and make sure the protection mode has not engaged. If all is fine, turn off the XPA-5 and add the next cable, power up and check LED, etc. Continue adding one cable at a time following this system. Keep going until you find the problem causing connection.
You may need to go through each component in you HT system by disconnecting every cable and then systematically adding them back on as described above. If the task proves to difficult for you, call Emotiva Tech Support Monday morning and they will help you isolate your problems. Good luck with your detective work, Sherlock. ;D
Running down defective cables can be a real pain in the "you know what". Just try to remain calm and be systematic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2010 23:25:39 GMT -5
Running down defective cables can be a real pain in the "you know what". Hey Roadrunner, it's OK to write "neck" in your posts, no problem. |
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Post by roadrunner on Sept 19, 2010 1:49:01 GMT -5
Running down defective cables can be a real pain in the "you know what". Hey Roadrunner, it's OK to write "neck" in your posts, no problem. Hey Chuckienut, I guess you are right... but some people get upset when you talk about something that might be "hard and hairy". ;D ;D |
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Post by flamingeye on Sept 19, 2010 7:59:08 GMT -5
That`s funny non of my signal cables resembles that
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Post by wyvern621 on Sept 19, 2010 11:04:54 GMT -5
If I understood your post correctly, you have recently placed an Emotiva XPA-5 Power Amp into you home theater and this amp is connected to a dedicated 20A circuit. You also report that the XPA-5 goes into protect mode upon powering up and that this confuses you because previous amps ran in the same circuit without problems. Is all this correct? What you did not say is what other gear is connected to the XPA-5; how that gear is connected (RCA or XLR) to it; how long are the connecting cables; method used to connect to your speakers (banana plugs, bare wire, etc); what GA of wire used for speaker cables. What trouble shooting steps have you already tried? You may need to go through each component in you HT system by disconnecting every cable and then systematically adding them back on as described above. If the task proves to difficult for you, call Emotiva Tech Support Monday morning and they will help you isolate your problems. Good luck with your detective work, Sherlock. ;D Running down defective cables can be a real pain in the "you know what". Just try to remain calm and be systematic. Roadrunner - Thanks for the reply. I did go though all of the troubleshooting steps required to isolate the problem to the signal cables - just didn't detail the steps in the original post. But if it helps... Plugged in power only - all blue LEDs Power and speaker wires - all blue LEDs Left Surr , Right Surr, Both input cables- all blue LEDs Center input cable - protect mode. Changed plugs on both ends, swapped to different channels - protect mode At this point I built a new 4 channel double shielded snake. Each channel tested fine individually - all blue LEDs. But when tested together - various channels go into protect mode. Because this is a 40 foot run, I assume that the leads are picking up RFI or EMI (as mentioned in the owner's manual). Since the original post, I've pretty much confirmed this by relocating the amp (hopefully temporarily) to the HT room and successfully feeding it with 4-6 foot signal cables. Other components: PrePro: Onkyo PR-SC885 Amp: Carver AV-806 (driving AR9s used as rear surrounds and sub-woofers) via 12g wire terminated with dual banana plugs Amp: Carver TFM35 (driving Legacy Mist surrounds) via 12g wire terminated with dual banana plugs Amp: Carver TFM35 (driving Clark Synthesis tactile transducers) via 12g wire and directly connected to terminals Amp: Emotiva XPA-5 (driving Legacy Focus L&R in bi-amp configuration) and Legacy Silver Screen center speaker - all with dual banana plugs. The question remains - is there a configuration (bal vs unbal, RCA vs XLR, etc) that will allow me to return the amp to the rack in the basement and feed it with 35-40 foot cables without running afoul of the very sensitive protection circuits? Thanks for any advice. I will contact Emotiva tech support with the question during business hours. |
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Post by jimmyjames on Sept 19, 2010 18:48:56 GMT -5
Why don't you just run another dedicated 20 amp circuit to your upstairs HT equipment and move everything upstairs. I would think it would be cheaper to do that then to have 40 ft cables made up. Plus you will run into less problems with shorter cables.
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Post by wyvern621 on Sept 19, 2010 21:48:36 GMT -5
Why don't you just run another dedicated 20 amp circuit to your upstairs HT equipment and move everything upstairs. I would think it would be cheaper to do that then to have 40 ft cables made up. Plus you will run into less problems with shorter cables. jimmyjames - thanks for the suggestion. That is my "plan B" - at least regarding the XPA-5. The other amps are quite happy in their current home, which is a converted data equipment cabinet with filtered forced-air ventilation. I can make up the signal cables myself and probably already have the materials. A new 20 amp electrical circuit involves building permits, electricians, etc, etc that would certainly cost more than a couple of hours of my time. But if that is the only solution, I can live with the XPA-5 upstairs. |
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Post by stuofsci02 on Sept 19, 2010 22:17:49 GMT -5
This does not sound like a signal cable issue to me... Noise on a signal cable should not cause an amp to go into protection. The amp does not know if it is amplifing a signal or a signal + noise.
Usually an amp goes into protection because of the speakers/cables shorting.. Are you playing anything when this happens or is it even when the amp is sitting idle...
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Post by roadrunner on Sept 19, 2010 22:40:16 GMT -5
If you are running RCA interconnect cables longer than 20 feet I would suggest that you use XLR interconnects if at all possible. Forty feet for RCA cables is much too far. Are you using shielded cables for interconnects? What GA wire are you using for you speaker wire? Are you using premium wire for your speakers or just zip cord?
When you were trying to isolate the cable run that was causing the protection mode to activate, did the problem stay with the same channel shen you switched wires? ...or did the protection mode follow to the new channel? Are all of the connections you are talking about between your multi-channel processor and the XPA-5?
Have you tried using one of the forty foot cables that is showing a blue LED to test each remaining channel, one at a time until you individually check each channel? Then using one, and only one, speaker wire individually check out each speaker. I am still thinking you probably have a cable problem of some sort.
Good luck. Oh, I have never needed to obtain a building permit to add a dedicated cricuit in my own home. Usually run my own cables and install the circuit breaker and wall outlet. Last time I had an electrician do it and he said that permit was not needed to just add a circuit... we live in arural location... I think if we were in the city a permit may have been requited.
I mentioned adding a circuit because it will probably be the best solution to fix your problem and ensure it doesn't happen again. As you probably already know, you should keep cables runs as short as possible.
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Post by wyvern621 on Sept 20, 2010 9:30:18 GMT -5
This does not sound like a signal cable issue to me... Noise on a signal cable should not cause an amp to go into protection. The amp does not know if it is amplifing a signal or a signal + noise. Usually an amp goes into protection because of the speakers/cables shorting.. Are you playing anything when this happens or is it even when the amp is sitting idle... I was surprised by this feature too. But to quote from the XPA-5 owner's guide: High quality, fully shielded RCA or XLR cables are recommended... X amplifiers have an extremely high bandwidth, and twisted, non-shielded cables can actually act as an "antenna", recieving outside interference and signals (EMI and RFI), which will cause the amplifier to go into protect mode. In answer to your question, the activation of protect mode happens whether or not the preamp is providing a signal, or even powered up. This is why I suspect outside interference. |
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Post by wyvern621 on Sept 20, 2010 9:38:42 GMT -5
If you are running RCA interconnect cables longer than 20 feet I would suggest that you use XLR interconnects if at all possible. Forty feet for RCA cables is much too far. Are you using shielded cables for interconnects? What GA wire are you using for you speaker wire? Are you using premium wire for your speakers or just zip cord? Have you tried using one of the forty foot cables that is showing a blue LED to test each remaining channel, one at a time until you individually check each channel? Then using one, and only one, speaker wire individually check out each speaker. I am still thinking you probably have a cable problem of some sort. roadrunner (et al.) - Thanks again for all the responses and suggestions. I've got the amp working fine in the HT room and will leave it there until the cold, rainy weekend in December when I decide to wire XLR connectors to the snake cable and try the basement location again. The cable is in place, I have the XLR connectors - so all it will cost me is a little bit of solder, a couple of hours of time, and a few Tylenol from moving this beast once again. Happy listening to all. |
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Post by strindl on Sept 21, 2010 6:03:29 GMT -5
roadrunner (et al.) - Thanks again for all the responses and suggestions. I've got the amp working fine in the HT room and will leave it there until the cold, rainy weekend in December when I decide to wire XLR connectors to the snake cable and try the basement location again. The cable is in place, I have the XLR connectors - so all it will cost me is a little bit of solder, a couple of hours of time, and a few Tylenol from moving this beast once again. Happy listening to all. I bet going to balanced XLR cables solves your problem. I have a pair of 35 foot Mono Price balanced XLR's going from my pre amp out to a pair of XPA-1's for my main speakers. They work perfectly. |
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Post by jimmyjames on Sept 22, 2010 18:40:49 GMT -5
I don't know what state you live in but most Electricians won't take out a permit to do a 20 amp circuit, depending how far your panel is to your room, it should not be that bad.
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