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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 6, 2010 15:33:55 GMT -5
Snells here Snells there, Snells everywhere...... Yep, got 5 pairs of them and have been using them almost exclusively for a long time. But here's the rub. One of the hallmarks of a Snell speaker is it's accuracy. They are brutally honest. They make utterly fabulous recordings sound well utterly fabulous, and paradoxically - make anything less than that sometimes unpleasant with a steely forward presentation and rather flat soundstage.
So what gives here? Why does this happen? Don't get me wrong, they never sound awful, but I always find myself going for the "good" recordings while the mediocre languish "un listened" to because to me sometimes SQ is more important the material itself.
Hence the paradox. So, would I be willing to give up that accuracy for speakers that are "tuned" for the masses? And what does that mean? My neighbor has a setup and I won't name the brand of speakers, but no matter what the CD selection is, it never intrudes, you never say to yourself "man, what a bad recording" but you also never think "wow, those sound great".
So what is going on here? Does anyone experience this? Am I crazy? Should I go out and get some Bose 901's like I had in the early 80's (just kidding on that one).
What say you?
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Post by roadrunner on Oct 6, 2010 16:45:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately, that is something I discovered over 40 years ago. As I improved the quality of all of my components and upgraded my speakers it became obvious when you played lesser quality recordings -- the better your gear the worse poor recording sound. That is the price you pay for being able to obtain the best reproduction of your good recordings. It spoils you for listening to lesser quality media.  |
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 6, 2010 17:02:11 GMT -5
Well at least I'm not the only one....... :-)
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 6, 2010 17:11:50 GMT -5
I know what you mean about favoring the "good" recordings. That's kind of perverted though since we should be focused on the music rather than the quality. Plus, my main era was the late 60's and 70's when it comes to music, so much of the earlier part of that time was spent listening to AM radio in the car while cruising around. Many songs that have a special meaning to me sound kind of odd when I play them using higher fidelity equipment and I discover things that I didn't hear or notice when listening to them on a tinny car speaker. In this case it is the opposite of what you said - the recording is actually better than the way I remember it because of the source material that was used back in the day, versus using something that brings out the full potential of the recording in the current day (i.e., there were some pretty good recordings back then - not everything was mediocre). Personally I would opt for accuracy over something that compensates. There's too much mediocrity all around us as it is and we shouldn't let mediocrity win. Sometimes it is painful, though.  |
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 6, 2010 17:22:51 GMT -5
I have a piece in my studio called a BBE sonic maximizer. Its operating principal is that it slows or speeds up some frequencies so they arrive at your ear at the same time (more or less). Many studios use this piece at mix down. It's quite dramatic when used as it breathes new life into bad recordings. I'm thinking about putting it back into my system. www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/882i.aspx |
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 6, 2010 17:26:52 GMT -5
I have a piece in my studio called a BBE sonic maximizer. Its operating principal is that it slows or speeds up some frequencies so they arrive at your ear at the same time (more or less). Many studios use this piece at mix down. It's quite dramatic when used as it breathes new life into bad recordings. I'm thinking about putting back into my system. www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/882i.aspxThat looks very expensive. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 6, 2010 17:36:52 GMT -5
I have a piece in my studio called a BBE sonic maximizer. Its operating principal is that it slows or speeds up some frequencies so they arrive at your ear at the same time (more or less). Many studios use this piece at mix down. It's quite dramatic when used as it breathes new life into bad recordings. I'm thinking about putting back into my system. www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/882i.aspxThat looks very expensive. I'm worth it...... |
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Post by paintedklown on Oct 6, 2010 17:59:31 GMT -5
Ah, yes. I can totally identify with this as well. Although my system isn't quite on the level you are talking about, I have the same problem. I find myself actually NOT liking great records that I grew up listening to and liking other records based solely on their production values. Being into music and recording I have always had a wide ranging music collection, both in style and quality. In my late teens/early 20s I darn near listened to 4 track cassette recordings of Sublime (Bradley Nowell and friends, Robbin' the hood, ect.) and Nirvana (the old 6 disc 'Black Box', bootlegs, imports, ect.) almost exclusively. I was a real big fan of indie/underground/punk/hardcore/metal as well. Now I just have a very difficult time trying to listen to some of that stuff. Partly because as I have grown older my tastes have changed and I have mellowed out considerably, partly because I am listening to the production values and I just can't get past the poor recording. Having said all of that, I feel that MOST of the issue with more modern recordings isn't necessarily the recording quality, but instead poor mastering jobs. Modern records are all compressed, EQ'd and "turned up" so loud that they are unbearable to listen to. My friend and I call this "brick wall" mastering. It literally ruins what could otherwise have been excellent records. There are several examples of this with almost any genre of modern popular music. I simply cannot sit there and pretend to enjoy the garbage they are pushing off on us.   There has been MANY times I have heard a record and liked the music, but said "I wish they would go back and re-master this record without all the compression" Doing so would have a tremendous impact on listener enjoyment and (IMO) cause record sales to go back up again. Along side of that, I feel there would come along a new, young generation of audiophiles who would begin to see the importance of building a real quality sound system as opposed to just getting an ipod, a HTIB with an ipod dock, and calling it a day. /end rant. ;D |
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 6, 2010 19:09:23 GMT -5
I agree with you Mr Clown and everyone else that has responded seems to agree. But the question remains unanswered. Why? Some speakers are unobtrusive but are somewhat bland while others like Snells and others are true to the "junk in junk out" axiom. For instance, I have a pair of Boston Acoustics outdoor speakers on my patio. They are nicely made, cost about $300 for the pair and are very non obtrusive - but lack in other areas. I can play a well recorded CD or a poorly recoded one thru these and they sound similar in timbre. Not so on the Snells. For instance Diana Krall's greatest hits sounds like she and her band are in my living room, fantastic. But others, especially rock, not so good. I'm being pretty picky here - I just want to know why this is......
It's kind of like American lager beer. Not a lot of taste, but consistent, nothing to really dislike and you can drink many at one sitting. Strange analogy but true I think.
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 6, 2010 20:52:43 GMT -5
That looks very expensive. I'm worth it...... ;D And just how much would something like that cost, if I may ask? One thing, though - unless you have a lot of acoustic treatments in your room to minimize reflection points, wouldn't those points negate what this device does? True, the speaker itself might be adjusted but then you have sound bouncing all over the walls. |
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Post by briank on Oct 6, 2010 21:58:30 GMT -5
The BBE Maximizer is nice, but another much cheaper alternative to better sound is a nice bottle of Red Wine. . . . I'm just sayin . . .
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Post by paintedklown on Oct 6, 2010 23:23:39 GMT -5
The BBE sonic maximizer is widely used by recording engineers in professional studios. I lot of guys swear by these things. I have never tried one personally, but I would not doubt if everyone on the lounge has heard one in action on some of their favorite records, and wasn't even aware.  |
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cgolf
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 4,613
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Post by cgolf on Oct 7, 2010 4:47:17 GMT -5
Speaker accuracy??? That's like saying such and such is the best such and such!!!  There are certainly "scientific" speaker accuracies. Guess this would be the flattest response line  But since ears are different, would a perfectly accurate speaker sound as good to me as one that wasn't. I don't know if I know what a perfectly accurate speaker sounds like or not. Not sure if I have ever had or heard one.... I'm serious about all this. I have had many sets of speakers over the years and of course some sounded much better to me than others but I don't really know all of the whys of that. Were the better ones always the more accurate?? I don't have any idea... ;D The swans I have now sound better to me than anything I've ever had but I have no idea as to their accuracy. I do understand completely the relationship of source material and speakers. But other than that, I don't know? Interesting topic.. Guess that's why there are 100s of speaker brands.............. ;D |
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 7, 2010 9:05:24 GMT -5
;D And just how much would something like that cost, if I may ask? One thing, though - unless you have a lot of acoustic treatments in your room to minimize reflection points, wouldn't those points negate what this device does? True, the speaker itself might be adjusted but then you have sound bouncing all over the walls. $250.00 on Musicians Friend. There other models as well. I'll bet you could find a used one in a music store or on Craigs List for $100.00. You would be amazed at what it does to old/bad recordings. Be nice to have a tape loop though....... |
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Post by jedinite24 on Oct 8, 2010 9:39:53 GMT -5
Hi Porscheguy
I'm experiencing your paradox as well. I'm finding that as I have been getting better quality equipment all round (speakers, Preamp, amp, DACs, hell even ICs and SCs) that I'm getting more accuracy and details from my music. A good amount of CDs I have listened to now I find don't sound as good as before when I just had a receiver and lower quality speakers. Music from the terrestrial radio sounds even worse sometimes. This was similar to when I got better quality earphones for my IPod.
I say keep your Snells and other quality gear and enjoy the accuracy you are getting.
As for the 882i Sonic Maximizer it sounds like a good idea. For me though I would need a bunch of XLR to RCA adapters to make it work in my system. If I can find it for $100 I'd give it a shot.
JD
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 8, 2010 19:06:16 GMT -5
No worries, I'm not sure what I could find to replace them without going broke. It's just odd that the better my system gets the worse many CD's sound.
Go figure :-)
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 8, 2010 21:06:59 GMT -5
No worries, I'm not sure what I could find to replace them without going broke. It's just odd that the better my system gets the worse many CD's sound. Go figure :-) Well now, maybe that really isn't the case - maybe the truth is that despite spending more money and "upgrading" it has actually gotten worse and you are deceived into thinking the system is really "better." That is just a marketing ploy to cover the fact that it really isn't any better - they just tell you that it is the fault of the CD's not being recorded properly. Do you really think all those CD's could be recorded that poorly? Just funnin' with ya.. ;D That is a paradox though.. what is the use of having increasingly good equipment if the number of recordings that can make use of it is decreasing? Sort of like having cars that can go faster and faster. Where are you going to drive them? |
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 9, 2010 13:21:13 GMT -5
No worries, I'm not sure what I could find to replace them without going broke. It's just odd that the better my system gets the worse many CD's sound. Go figure :-) Well now, maybe that really isn't the case - maybe the truth is that despite spending more money and "upgrading" it has actually gotten worse and you are deceived into thinking the system is really "better." That is just a marketing ploy to cover the fact that it really isn't any better - they just tell you that it is the fault of the CD's not being recorded properly. Do you really think all those CD's could be recorded that poorly? Just funnin' with ya.. ;D That is a paradox though.. what is the use of having increasingly good equipment if the number of recordings that can make use of it is decreasing? Sort of like having cars that can go faster and faster. Where are you going to drive them? You make my argument for me. I have my Snells and I love them and I'm not going to change. I've listened to a lot of speakers over the years and while some sound as good - and maybe some sound better, the cost of upgrade at this level is a lot. I'm not spending 10K on speakers. Ever. :-) |
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 9, 2010 13:32:21 GMT -5
Well now, maybe that really isn't the case - maybe the truth is that despite spending more money and "upgrading" it has actually gotten worse and you are deceived into thinking the system is really "better." That is just a marketing ploy to cover the fact that it really isn't any better - they just tell you that it is the fault of the CD's not being recorded properly. Do you really think all those CD's could be recorded that poorly? Just funnin' with ya.. ;D That is a paradox though.. what is the use of having increasingly good equipment if the number of recordings that can make use of it is decreasing? Sort of like having cars that can go faster and faster. Where are you going to drive them? You make my argument for me. I have my Snells and I love them and I'm not going to change. I've listened to a lot of speakers over the years and while some sound as good - and maybe some sound better, the cost of upgrade at this level is a lot. I'm not spending 10K on speakers. Ever. :-) You forgot to preface that with, "read my lips -" ;D Having audio for a hobby seems to make statements come back to bite us down the road. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 9, 2010 16:09:35 GMT -5
You make my argument for me. I have my Snells and I love them and I'm not going to change. I've listened to a lot of speakers over the years and while some sound as good - and maybe some sound better, the cost of upgrade at this level is a lot. I'm not spending 10K on speakers. Ever. :-) You forgot to preface that with, "read my lips -" ;D Having audio for a hobby seems to make statements come back to bite us down the road. I would like a pair of Revel Ultima 2's :-) |
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