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Post by rockguitar on Dec 2, 2010 13:39:50 GMT -5
Just got it this morning and plugged it directly to my amps. First impression, -- this has a lot of heft. Second impression -- what are these handprints [not mine] doing on the bottom of my unit? Third, plugging it in. Initial volume control setting was 80 out of 80. Using the volume control, I was listening to a volume setting of about 8 out of 80 to be comparable to what I typically listen to. If you don't turn it down on initial setup if plugged in directly into your amp(s), you will definitely regret it. I am afraid to test the limits of the volume control. Fourth, as to the sound, you'll have to wait  . I don't like to shoot off the hip for that. However, I don't see too many of these being returned if your expectations are reasonable (sometimes the hype can give you unrealistic expectations, like the first time I saw the movie, Toy Story [the original one]. It was so hyped, I asked myself what's the big deal after watching it). |
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Post by ripcordaff on Dec 2, 2010 13:45:10 GMT -5
I, too, am wondering about the gain. It seems very high. My speakers are about middle of road in terms of efficiency (about 89db) but 8 is pretty loud. 10 rattles things in the house. .5 (the lowest available volume) is by no means all that quiet either...I wish the gain was lower giving more flexibility with the volume....
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Post by REN on Dec 2, 2010 15:15:15 GMT -5
i am now wounder how its going to be on my speakers mine are highly efficiency at 101db
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Post by jmargaglione on Dec 2, 2010 16:53:27 GMT -5
Gain is WAY too high. I have khorns, and 3 is reference level with an XPA-5. And here I am thinking of going to XPA-1's... I literally couldn't use the .5 setting.
I know the volume control is built into the DAC, so I'm not sure how much can be done here...
When I auditioned the XDA-1 with the 8.3's and XPA-1's at RMAF I'm pretty sure the volume was up above 10...
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Post by roadrunner on Dec 2, 2010 18:20:01 GMT -5
Gain is WAY too high. I have khorns, and 3 is reference level with an XPA-5. And here I am thinking of going to XPA-1's... I literally couldn't use the .5 setting. I know the volume control is built into the DAC, so I'm not sure how much can be done here... When I auditioned the XDA-1 with the 8.3's and XPA-1's at RMAF I'm pretty sure the volume was up above 10... You may have to use some in inline attentuators to allow you to use a larger portion of the volume controls range. Your K-Horns are amongst the most efficient speakers made. The Emotiva ERT-8.3 speakers are about average efficiency. Your K-Horns are about 15 db more efficient than the 8.3s. |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
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Post by NorthStar on Dec 2, 2010 18:26:17 GMT -5
Buying attenuators on top of it? ...Introduce more stuff into the circuit when you want the less possible?!!
...Don't make any sense to me if you ask me.
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 2, 2010 18:54:46 GMT -5
Gain is WAY too high. I have khorns, and 3 is reference level with an XPA-5. And here I am thinking of going to XPA-1's... I literally couldn't use the .5 setting. I know the volume control is built into the DAC, so I'm not sure how much can be done here... When I auditioned the XDA-1 with the 8.3's and XPA-1's at RMAF I'm pretty sure the volume was up above 10... Khorns and a pair of XPA-1? Isn't that like putting a Hemi in a VW? Sure you could do it but why? 500W for a speaker that will do 105dB @ 1watt/1meter?  There are people listening to Khorns with 5W SEt tube amps. My Bryston 2BLP at 60W/channel connected to my Cornwalls, which are less efficient, will drive you out of the room with the volume on 5. A standard demo of the Klipschorns at audio shows in the early '70s was to connect it to a pocket transistor radio. The sound quality was horrible, but it was loud! |
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Post by roadrunner on Dec 2, 2010 18:58:26 GMT -5
Buying attenuators on top of it? ...Introduce more stuff into the circuit when you want the less possible?!! ...Don't make any sense to me if you ask me. Of course you don't want to add any additional "stuff" to the circuit, but if your speakers are so sensitive that you have only 4 usable volume levels before reaching "bloody ears" output level then it does make sense. The range for volume is 0 -- 100, with 0.5 db increments. He posted that at 2.0 his wife is screaming to turn the volume down. That means 98% of the volume range is unusable to him if he desires to use his current speakers. So, I ask you what would make sense?  |
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Post by jmargaglione on Dec 2, 2010 19:09:04 GMT -5
Gain is WAY too high. I have khorns, and 3 is reference level with an XPA-5. And here I am thinking of going to XPA-1's... I literally couldn't use the .5 setting. I know the volume control is built into the DAC, so I'm not sure how much can be done here... When I auditioned the XDA-1 with the 8.3's and XPA-1's at RMAF I'm pretty sure the volume was up above 10... Khorns and a pair of XPA-1? Isn't that like putting a Hemi in a VW? Sure you could do it but why? 500W for a speaker that will do 105dB @ 1watt/1meter? There are people listening to Khorns with 5W SEt tube amps. My Bryston 2BLP at 60W/channel connected to my Cornwalls, which are less efficient, will drive you out of the room with the volume on 5. A standard demo of the Klipschorns at audio shows in the early '70s was to connect it to a pocket transistor radio. The sound quality was horrible, but it was loud! I know, I made a custom connector from my iPhone to my khorns and they did a great job. Messy when you turn it past the .05 watts or whatever that phone puts out, but at normal volume it was pretty cool. I don't need more POWER for the speakers, but there are other reasons to like the XPA-1s. All those little tweaks and upgraded components lead to a lower noise floor (which you need with khorns - doesn't take much noise to make the hiss audible), better separation and imaging, and even better dynamics. There is a guy on the Klipsch forums with XPA-1's and khorns, and he LOVES the setup. Plus, why the hell not, eh? |
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Post by jmargaglione on Dec 2, 2010 19:11:13 GMT -5
Gain is WAY too high. I have khorns, and 3 is reference level with an XPA-5. And here I am thinking of going to XPA-1's... I literally couldn't use the .5 setting. I know the volume control is built into the DAC, so I'm not sure how much can be done here... When I auditioned the XDA-1 with the 8.3's and XPA-1's at RMAF I'm pretty sure the volume was up above 10... You may have to use some in inline attentuators to allow you to use a larger portion of the volume controls range. Your K-Horns are amongst the most efficient speakers made. The Emotiva ERT-8.3 speakers are about average efficiency. Your K-Horns are about 15 db more efficient than the 8.3s. Ultimately I'm probably going to get the XSP-1 when it comes out so that I can get bass management, so I'm going through the UMC-1 for now. Can't say the UMC-1 does much to the signal as long as you leave it in Direct mode. |
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Post by pdaddy on Dec 2, 2010 20:01:23 GMT -5
I'm listening to my MMG Maggies (86db efficiency) with the volume at 4.0 through an XPA-2 and it's a comfortble listen level. What I want to know is at that low a level am I missing any musical detail? If so, would I be better to run through my preamp and crank the XDA, or does that matter?
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Post by rockguitar on Dec 2, 2010 20:32:57 GMT -5
About the output gain of the device, one thing to keep in mind is that the sound output is dependent not just on the speaker sensitivity but also on the amplifier gain. My amp(s) have a gain of 29 db and my speakers are on the inefficient side, about 85 db I'm guessing. For reference, most of the Emotiva amps I looked at have an amp gain of about 32 db so they will be 3 db louder at the same level.
I tested the volume control some more and have usable volume all the way to 0.5 out of 80 on the volume control so though it's all to the lower side of the scale, I have no problems with a direct connection to the amps.
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Post by briank on Dec 2, 2010 20:45:07 GMT -5
Pdaddy, while it's a noticeable improvement going through the preamp, you're still better off going direct if you can.
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Post by pdaddy on Dec 2, 2010 21:39:25 GMT -5
Thanks Brian. That's my preference.
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Post by rockguitar on Dec 3, 2010 17:53:13 GMT -5
If I may make a request. A lot of people are starting to post their impressions of the sound. It would help everyone a lot if you make A-B comparisons where the volumes are level matched between components. Otherwise results are going to be all over the map. One way to do this is to use a test tone CD and measure the sound from the speakers using a sound pressure level meter. The cheaper and more consistent way (IMHO) would be to use a test tone CD and use a voltage meter to measure the voltage between the terminals of your speakers or at the speaker outputs of the amp. There are other places too, just as long as you are consistent. These voltage meters (digital multimeter) can be bought for as low as $7-10 online. Like this is on sale for $5 www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-500 |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 3, 2010 20:09:45 GMT -5
 I got my XDA-1 at about 6PM tonight. I swapped the optical from my PC to it along with patching in the UPA-5 left/right. I couldn't get above 4 on the volume without blasting so I replaced the UPA-5 with my trusty Bryston 2BLP. At only 60W/ch I now had some play with the volume control. My Klipsch Heresy IIIs are 99dB@1W1M. A -10dB switch would make a nice addition to future models. I tried all the sample rates I have files for 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 and 192. Everything sounds really good at this point. I notice an improved soundstage and sharpness to just about everything. I miss my subs as the Heresy doesn't have solid bass. I'll be playing with the USB this weekend. I think the XDA-1 and Bryston make a nice looking couple both being 1RU chassis size. |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 3, 2010 22:44:05 GMT -5
I tested the XDA-1 outputs tonight by doing the following:
I created a pink noise wav file on my PC normalized to 0 dB.
I burned this file to an audio CD.
I played the track with my old CD player and observer 2.1V out with my multi-meter.
I played the track on my PC to the XDA-1 at a volume level of 80 and also got about 2V. Note - unbalanced!
I lowered the volume to 40 and got about 1V.
Bottom line: nothing wrong with the XDA-1!
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Post by ajani on Dec 3, 2010 22:52:52 GMT -5
I tested the XDA-1 outputs tonight by doing the following: I created a pink noise wav file on my PC normalized to 0 dB. I burned this file to an audio CD. I played the track with my old CD player and observer 2.1V out with my multi-meter. I played the track on my PC to the XDA-1 at a volume level of 80 and also got about 2V. Note - unbalanced! I lowered the volume to 40 and got about 1V. Bottom line: nothing wrong with the XDA-1! The issue is therefore the extra high gain on the Emo amps then... Well actually there might still be an issue with the XDA-1... is 1V = half the volume of 2V or just half the wattage? Remember that half the wattage means just 3db less volume, not half the volume... |
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RPA-1 man
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Phutureprimitive "Kinetic" 2011
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Post by RPA-1 man on Dec 3, 2010 23:07:45 GMT -5
I believe cfeliot has the right idea though.
Perhaps a -10db switchable option would be a great idea for any future DAC.
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Post by rockguitar on Dec 3, 2010 23:16:00 GMT -5
I tested the XDA-1 outputs tonight by doing the following: I created a pink noise wav file on my PC normalized to 0 dB. I burned this file to an audio CD. I played the track with my old CD player and observer 2.1V out with my multi-meter. I played the track on my PC to the XDA-1 at a volume level of 80 and also got about 2V. Note - unbalanced! I lowered the volume to 40 and got about 1V. Bottom line: nothing wrong with the XDA-1! The issue is therefore the extra high gain on the Emo amps then... Well actually there might still be an issue with the XDA-1... is 1V = half the volume of 2V or just half the wattage? Remember that half the wattage means just 3db less volume, not half the volume... I think the real issue is how the volume control is implemented. Since half of the volume reading (40 vs. 80) leads to half the voltage (1 volt vs 2 volts), the volume is a linear volume control. In almost all stereo components, the volume control does not use a linear volume control but a logarithmic volume control. For a logarithmic volume pot, the volume control is much more responsive to small turns of the volume pot at high volume and allows for greater control at low volume. Basically the XDA's linear volume control doesn't have enough steps at the low end of the scale to finely control the volume for some systems, i.e. those with sensitive amps and sensitive speakers. See this link about linear vs. log volume www.learnabout-electronics.org/resistors_09a.php"Using a log pot therefore gives the effect that a setting of full volume on the control sounds twice as loud as a setting of half volume. A linear pot used as a volume control would give large apparent changes in loudness at low volume settings, with little apparent change over the rest of the control´s range ." The XDA volume control is basically a linear volume control. But there is nothing wrong with it's gain -- its outputting a standard output voltage. Just compare with cfelliot's other CD player, both output 2 volts. |
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. I don't like to shoot off the hip for that. However, I don't see too many of these being returned if your expectations are reasonable (sometimes the hype can give you unrealistic expectations, like the first time I saw the movie, Toy Story [the original one]. It was so hyped, I asked myself what's the big deal after watching it).
